Goncalo Amaral.

[Mr Gray]

The cite has been posted many times on this very forum over the years. I’m sure if you put it in the search facility you’ll find it.

There has never been an independent reliable cite for a confession with lawyer present..

[Mr Gray]

A court never finds anyone guilty...only beyond reasonable doubt

[barrier]

A court never finds anyone guilty...only beyond reasonable doubt

I've said all along the new suspect isn't involved, it'll only likely be, beyond reasonable doubt, at least we agree on that.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

the court verdict is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.....thats decided in the Uk by the Jury...its their decision base d on their opinion.

in the Cipriano case there were three judges...two found bguity...one not guilty. again tahts the opinion of the judges and not proof of absolute guilt

If you use the lack of a unanimous verdict as grounds for doubt on a conviction then chuck in Ian Huntley as well as he was convicted on majority decision not a unanimous one.

[Mr Gray]

So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.

I'm afraid you don't seem to understand my logic

[Mr Gray]

If you use the lack of a unanimous verdict as grounds for doubt on a conviction then chuck in Ian Huntley as well as he was convicted on majority decision not a unanimous one.

I pointed out the verdict is an opinion..that's perfectly true and logical

[Eleanor]

The cite has been posted many times on this very forum over the years. I’m sure if you put it in the search facility you’ll find it.

I don't think so.  And even Angelo is backtracking.

And Leonor Cipriano was tortured by factions of The PJ, according to The Portuguese Court.

Why would they have tortured her if she had already confessed to murder?

It actually doesn't make sense.  Does it.

[Mr Gray]

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-leonor-cipriano-confessed.html

Leonor Confessed the crime on the 13th of October and she alleges she was beaten a day later

Leonor Cipriano, the killer meanwhile condemned, confessed all of this facts to the PJ on the 13th of October 2004, in the presence of  her lawyer, who at the time was Célia Costa, who has also signed statements that were given to the Inspector Pereira Cristovão. Leonor's brother, João Cipriano,  had previously confessed the crimes a few days before,  on the 8 of October.

Leonor is doing the 16 years that she was condemned to, but the Public Ministry [MP] considers that the mother was beaten in the PJ of Faro on the 14th of October 2004. For the Defense of four of the five accused inspectors, it would not make any sense the policeman in question to beat the suspect to get a confession, even because "both of them had already admitted that they were responsible for Joana's death", said the lawyer António Pragal Colaço

So the source is the lawyer for the accused torturers

As I said no independent reliable cite

[Icanhandlethetruth]

I pointed out the verdict is an opinion..that's perfectly true and logical

Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.

[Mr Gray]

So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.

As I've said all along it depends on the evidence

[Brietta]

So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.

I think the evidence was quite compelling as far as Brady and Hindley were concerned ... probably starting with their last victim and working backwards from there.

Edward Evan's body was found in Hindley's grandmother's house having been attacked with an axe and strangled.  He was only seventeen.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ian-brady-myra-hindleys-house-10432360

Neither Brady or Hindley were beaten or tortured ... nor should they have been.

[faithlilly]

I don't think so.  And even Angelo is backtracking.

And Leonor Cipriano was tortured by factions of The PJ, according to The Portuguese Court.

Why would they have tortured her if she had already confessed to murder?

It actually doesn't make sense.  Does it.

But surely you don’t trust Portuguese justice.....or is it just when it suits ?

[Venturi Swirl]

So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.

That is an idiotic observation imo.  What actual evidence exists apart from a decidedly dodgy confession  that Leonor Cipriano murdered her child? 

[Mr Gray]

But surely you don’t trust Portuguese justice.....or is it just when it suits ?

It's obviously not as simple as that ....it depends on the evidence presented

[Venturi Swirl]

Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.

If that’s the case then it is true that OJ Simpson did not murder his wife or her lover.