Goncalo Amaral.

[The General]

its short ...apt and straight to the point...and what your post deserves

And I appreciate your input and brevity.

[G-Unit]

A court never finds anyone guilty...only beyond reasonable doubt

You are aware, of course, that 'reasonable doubt' is only relevant in adversarial legal systems? Portugal's is an inquisitorial legal system.

[Venturi Swirl]

No, I don't believe it. None of it. She changed her tune more times than a 2 bit jukebox. The medical examiner's report supports the desperate act of a bereft, damaged perpetrator of infanticide - she couldn't wriggle out of it and acted like the coward she is as she stared in to the abyss, undoubtedly spitting bile and hissing like a viper as she threw herself down the stairs, not to kill herself, but in a successful attempt to damage herself enough to procure temporary solace in a medical facility.
She's not a narcissist, she's deeply selfish, more interested in getting her end away and getting smashed, instead of caring for her kids. Is she looking for Joana now? No, of course not.

So we can put that verdict of the Portuguese court down as yet another failing of thr PT judicial system then? 

[Mr Gray]

You are aware, of course, that 'reasonable doubt' is only relevant in adversarial legal systems? Portugal's is an inquisitorial legal system.

I'm aware that Portugal must have an equivalent.to reasonable doubt ....no system could operate on ..beyond all doubt...I'm sure you would have to agree

[Mr Gray]

You are aware, of course, that 'reasonable doubt' is only relevant in adversarial legal systems? Portugal's is an inquisitorial legal system.

Cite

[G-Unit]

I'm aware that Portugal must have an equivalent.to reasonable doubt ....no system could operate on ..beyond all doubt...I'm sure you would have to agree

Let me know when you find out. In the interim please make it clear that 'reasonable doubt' is a concept which doesn't apply to Portugal, or to most European countries for that matter.

[Mr Gray]

Let me know when you find out. In the interim please make it clear that 'reasonable doubt' is a concept which doesn't apply to Portugal, or to most European countries for that matter.

Again cite required for your claim... beyond all doubt is not possible

[Mr Gray]

Let me know when you find out. In the interim please make it clear that 'reasonable doubt' is a concept which doesn't apply to Portugal, or to most European countries for that matter.

once again you make a claim and cannot provide a cite

[Venturi Swirl]

Interestingly  "In an inquisitorial system, a confession of guilt would not be regarded as ground for a guilty verdict. The prosecutor is required to provide evidence supporting a guilty verdict".  So just what was the compelling evidence that proved that Cipriano murdered her child?

[Mr Gray]

Let me know when you find out. In the interim please make it clear that 'reasonable doubt' is a concept which doesn't apply to Portugal, or to most European countries for that matter.

Criminal proceedings
In accordance with Portuguese constitutional principles (the presumption of innocence,
which provides that a defendant cannot be considered guilty until its final conviction), the
burden of proof lies on the public prosecutor, either in proving beyond reasonable doubt the
defendant’s guilt in relation to certain criminal offences, or in proving that specific assets are
the proceeds of such criminal offence and, as such, must be confiscated.

http://www.raassociados.pt/media/documents/theassettracingandrecoveryreview.pdf

page 6...

looks like you are making things up...you should adjust your posts accordingly

[Icanhandlethetruth]

If that’s the case then it is true that OJ Simpson did not murder his wife or her lover.

I assumed it was a given that on a site called miscarriage of justice we are all aware that wrongful convictions or acquittals are quite common. With that in mind please point out which part of my post (reproduced below) that you find to be incorrect or misleading.

“Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.”

[G-Unit]

once again you make a claim and cannot provide a cite

Beyond a reasonable doubt is a legal standard of proof required to validate a criminal conviction in most adversarial legal systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt

[Venturi Swirl]

I assumed it was a given that on a site called miscarriage of justice we are all aware that wrongful convictions or acquittals are quite common. With that in mind please point out which part of my post (reproduced below) that you find to be incorrect or misleading.

“Every verdict in court is an opinion but the definition of the word fact is a thing that is proven to be true. That's what a court case does, proves a case to be true or false.”

No need, you've admitted that wrongful convictions are (in your words) "quite common", so if one holds the opinion that Cipriano's case was one such, why would you argue so strenuously that it was not?  Based on what, exactly?

[Mr Gray]

Beyond a reasonable doubt is a legal standard of proof required to validate a criminal conviction in most adversarial legal systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt

What absolute rubbish imo...your cite doesnt mention portugal....and doesnt exclude other european countries. My cite confirming ...beyond reasonable doubt...comes from a portuguese lawyer....best just admit you are wrong

[Icanhandlethetruth]

No need, you've admitted that wrongful convictions are (in your words) "quite common", so if one holds the opinion that Cipriano's case was one such, why would you argue so strenuously that it was not?  Based on what, exactly?

Please point me to the post where I argue so strenuously that Cipriano's conviction was not a wrongful conviction.