Goncalo Amaral.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

In my opinion based on the evidence X is guilty and therefore I decide to find him guilty.  It's all mincing words at the end of the day innit.

Yes its all semantics. But I take issue with the idea that all verdicts are only opinions and nothing more, and then someone can decide which ones are opinions and which are verdicts. I disagree vehemently.

[Angelo222]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisitorial_system

There goes Leonor's Confession down the pan.  More evidence for The ECHR.

The ECHR cannot overturn her conviction.

[The General]

Yes its all semantics. But I take issue with the idea that all verdicts are only opinions and nothing more, and then someone can decide which ones are opinions and which are verdicts. I disagree vehemently.

Agreed. I would suggest that at a very defined point in the proceedings the verdict becomes a statement of fact.

In law, a verdict is the formal finding of fact made by a jury on matters or questions submitted to the jury by a judge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdict

[Eleanor]

The ECHR cannot overturn her conviction.

But they can award Compensation against The Portuguese State.  That'll do me.

[Angelo222]

You are aware, of course, that 'reasonable doubt' is only relevant in adversarial legal systems? Portugal's is an inquisitorial legal system.

"Portugal’s legal system is a civil law system.

As per civil proceedings, the Portuguese legal system should not be qualified as adversarial or inquisitorial. The civil procedure is based on the dispositive principle, which means that the parties are responsible for alleging the facts, gathering evidence and determining the nature of the evidence they choose to provide. The court’s role is primarily to conduct and oversee the proceedings to ensure that the evidence given is within the rules. It then weighs the evidence, according to pre-existing rules, to render its judgment. The court may, however, on its own initiative, request any evidence that it deems necessary to reach its decision, based on the facts lawfully acknowledged by it. Indeed, under Articles 411, 417, 452, 467 and 526 of the Civil Procedure Code (hereinafter “CPC”), the Court may call the parties to testify, order expert witnesses, call witnesses to testify and ask the parties or third parties to disclose documents or other evidence to support the facts. Witnesses’ testimonies are taken by the parties’ lawyers, but the parties’ testimony is taken by the judge.



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[Mr Gray]

But they can award Compensation against The Portuguese State.  That'll do me.

Unfortunately as I understand she had to apply within six months of the judgement so she's out of time

[Eleanor]

"Portugal’s legal system is a civil law system.

As per civil proceedings, the Portuguese legal system should not be qualified as adversarial or inquisitorial. The civil procedure is based on the dispositive principle, which means that the parties are responsible for alleging the facts, gathering evidence and determining the nature of the evidence they choose to provide. The court’s role is primarily to conduct and oversee the proceedings to ensure that the evidence given is within the rules. It then weighs the evidence, according to pre-existing rules,
to render its judgment. The court may, however, on its own initiative, request any evidence that it deems necessary
to reach its decision, based on the facts lawfully acknowledged by it. Indeed, under Articles
411, 417, 452, 467 and 526 of the Civil Procedure Code (hereinafter “CPC”), the Court may
call the parties to testify, order expert witnesses, call witnesses to testify and ask the parties
or third parties to disclose documents or other evidence to support the facts. Witnesses’ tes-
timonies are taken by the parties’ lawyers, but the parties’ testimony is taken by the judge.

What do you make of One Judge out of Three ruling in favour of Leonor Cipriano?

[Angelo222]

What do you make of One Judge out of Three ruling in favour of Leonor Cipriano?

I agree with him. She didn't murder her daughter, she was merely an accomplice after the fact.

[Eleanor]

Unfortunately as I understand she had to apply within six months of the judgement so she's out of time

You are undoubtedly right.  So Leonor Cipriano was let down by absolutely everyone.  What a disgrace.

Portugal will rue the day, of that I am sure.

This is wherein the light was first shone on what the hell was going on in Portugal.

Some blimming Revolution that was, bearing in mind that there were Two Revolutions while the real perpetrators sorted out and reinvented themselves.

This was Amaral's Last Stand.  And we all know what happened to Custer.

You see, I don't think that Amaral is entirely responsible.  It had always been his way of life.  His attitude was twisted from the day on which he was born and then aided by The Old School.

So the disappearance of Madeleine Mccann has accomplished something.

[Mr Gray]

Agreed. I would suggest that at a very defined point in the proceedings the verdict becomes a statement of fact.

In law, a verdict is the formal finding of fact made by a jury on matters or questions submitted to the jury by a judge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdict

Guilty beyond reasonable doubt..not all doubt..based on the opinions of the jury

[The General]

Guilty beyond reasonable doubt..not all doubt..based on the options of the jury

Maybe you missed the bit about the fact. It's a legal defintion and a known term cast in English Law.
Perhaps you'd like the law changed to suit your opinion, but it sucks to be wrong (not that I would know)
And don't start trying to modify Wikipedia, coz we can see that stuff.

[G-Unit]

Criminal proceedings
In accordance with Portuguese constitutional principles (the presumption of innocence,
which provides that a defendant cannot be considered guilty until its final conviction), the
burden of proof lies on the public prosecutor, either in proving beyond reasonable doubt the
defendant’s guilt in relation to certain criminal offences, or in proving that specific assets are
the proceeds of such criminal offence and, as such, must be confiscated.

http://www.raassociados.pt/media/documents/theassettracingandrecoveryreview.pdf

page 6...

looks like you are making things up...you should adjust your posts accordingly

OK, so both systems are striving to reach a verdict which is beyond reasonable doubt. The difference is that the adversarial system relies on a jury of laypersons to deliver the verdict and the inquisitorial system relies on judges.

[Brietta]

even the most hardened  prisoner   dont tolerate  child killers in jail its a unspoken rule in worldwide jails

The corrupt Policia Judiciaria did try a cover-up using that one ... but there are public officials in Portugal who value the truth and their integrity.
Leonor Cipriano was horrifically tortured and abused by officers under Amaral's direct command; he knew she was in the building; he donated the glass ashtrays she was forced to kneel on while being abused.
Amaral was found guilty of perjury as a result of trying to cover it all up.


Snip
Calado (the prison director) expressed her surprise for a number of facts:

a) that the judicial police did not take Cipriano to a health centre in Faro to certify that she had fallen down some stairs;

b) that the day of her interrogation was chosen during Calado's week of holidays, when she would never have allowed her to be picked up at 6 a.m. without a formal request by the judicial police; and ...

c) that judicial police officers who arrived from Lisbon to investigate the allegations of torture proposed sharing the blame between the judicial police and prison, something she refused.

Correia praised the director, describing her as "courageous" and as prizing "values" more highly than "corporate interests".

https://www.statewatch.org/news/2008/may/portugal-report-on-torture-suffered-by-leonor-cipriano/

[Eleanor]

I agree with him. She didn't murder her daughter, she was merely an accomplice after the fact.

Well now, that's an advance and thank you for that.

So why was she convicted of Murder?  Presumably you have some evidence of this.

What did either of them do with The Body?  Amaral offers too many choices.  None of which The Investigation or The Trial actually proved.

And I am none too happy about the Indictment and Conviction of Joao Cipriano either.  He was just a small cog in the process of Amaral's obsession against Murdering Mothers.

God knows what can have happened to Amaral in his young days to so twist his attitude to women.  I almost feel sorry for him.

[The General]

Guilty beyond reasonable doubt..not all doubt..based on the options of the jury

fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened. Facts may also be inferred from other facts.
Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006