Goncalo Amaral.

[Eleanor]

OK, so both systems are striving to reach a verdict which is beyond reasonable doubt. The difference is that the adversarial system relies on a jury of laypersons to deliver the verdict and the inquisitorial system relies on judges.

There was a Jury in The Cipriano Case.

[Mr Gray]

OK, so both systems are striving to reach a verdict which is beyond reasonable doubt. The difference is that the adversarial system relies on a jury of laypersons to deliver the verdict and the inquisitorial system relies on judges.

I'm aware of that but you claimed ..beyond reasonable doubt.  ...Did not exist in the Portuguese system...I've shown you were wrong

[Mr Gray]

Maybe you missed the bit about the fact. It's a legal defintion and a known term cast in English Law.
Perhaps you'd like the law changed to suit your opinion, but it sucks to be wrong (not that I would know)
And don't start trying to modify Wikipedia, coz we can see that stuff.

I didn't miss anything...the verdict is based on the opinion of the jurors..or of course in Portugal judges

[The General]

I didn't miss anything...the verdict is based on the opinion of the jurors..or of course in Portugal judges

You said a verdict could never be fact. You were wrong.

[Mr Gray]

fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened. Facts may also be inferred from other facts.
Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006

So Barry George killed Susan Dando...that's a fact according to your claim.

The legal fact established was that George was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt...that verdict is based purely on the opinion of the jurors.

It was not established as a fact that he killed Dando

[Mr Gray]

You said a verdict could never be fact. You were wrong.

Provide the cite to back up your claim

[The General]

Provide the cite to back up your claim

I just did above. Now admit it and go home.

you are wrong...they are both opinion

[Venturi Swirl]

So Barry George killed Susan Dando...that's a fact according to your claim.

The legal fact established was that George was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt...that verdict is based purely on the opinion of the jurors.

It was not established as a fact that he killed Dando

Jill

[The General]

So Barry George killed Susan Dando...that's a fact according to your claim.

The legal fact established was that George was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt...that verdict is based purely on the opinion of the jurors.

It was not established as a fact that he killed Dando

Susan.

[The General]

So Barry George killed Susan Dando...that's a fact according to your claim.

The legal fact established was that George was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt...that verdict is based purely on the opinion of the jurors.

It was not established as a fact that he killed Dando

You said it was opinion, not that 'it was not established as fact'
But I like the unsubtle moonwalk.

It's a legally defined status that the verdict is fact, whether or not it necessarily physically is.
You contended that all verdicts were merely the opinion of jurors or judges - that's palpably wrong.

[Mr Gray]

You said it was opinion, not that 'it was not established as fact'
But I like the unsubtle moonwalk.

It's a legally defined status that the verdict is fact, whether or not it necessarily physically is.
You contended that all verdicts were merely the opinion of jurors or judges - that's palpably wrong.

You provided two definitions of a fact...


fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened.

a fact is something known to have happened.....a legal fact may not have happened so is therefore not a fct...or a true fact.

a verdict is the combined opinion of the Jurors.....based on their interpretation of the evidence,..it is not an established fact..it may not actually be true

[Mr Gray]

Synonyms for verdict
Synonyms

award, call, conclusion, decision, deliverance, determination, diagnosis, judgment (or judgement), opinion, resolution

[Mr Gray]

verdict
noun [ C ]
UK  /ˈvɜː.dɪkt/ US  /ˈvɝː.dɪkt/
 
C2
an opinion or decision made after judging the facts that are given, especially one made at the end of a trial:

[The General]

Synonyms for verdict
Synonyms

award, call, conclusion, decision, deliverance, determination, diagnosis, judgment (or judgement), opinion, resolution

No, that's not the legal definition. A synonym of the informal use of the word 'verdict' in a non legal setting may well be 'opinion', as you've amply demonstrated, but then you also amply demonstrated this informal usage may also have a synonym of 'call', which is equally irrelevant.

[The General]

verdict
noun [ C ]
UK  /ˈvɜː.dɪkt/ US  /ˈvɝː.dɪkt/
 
C2
an opinion or decision made after judging the facts that are given, especially one made at the end of a trial:

I refer you to my answer above, quoting the correct Collins Legal Dictionary.

fact an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law. Facts can however be found proven in legal proceedings where they may or may not have actually happened. Facts may also be inferred from other facts.
Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006