Author Topic: Goncalo Amaral.  (Read 408624 times)

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Offline The General

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4185 on: March 02, 2022, 07:18:38 AM »
Ah, the sceptics lord and truthmaster, Mister Amaral. A man who seemingly cannot figure out how someone can break in through an unlocked sliding door. And who has apparently yet to discover in all his years of police work, that people who deliberately break into places tend to wear gloves. Quite what he means by "other evidence" we can only wonder. Perhaps he was hoping for some giant muddy footprints, some body fluids randomly sprayed about the place or perhaps the intruder's wallet fallen out of his pocket.
By this reasoning Herr B planned this meticulously - and the plan was executed perfectly.
He knew the sliding door was open and had planned exactly which child to snatch.
He disturbed nothing, including the twins, and was able to get in, take MM, and get out in between parental / friend monitoring. Nothing elaborate in the actual act, save for the planning perhaps, but you have to marvel at his timing.
Moreover, despite several associates latterly having misgivings and a global appeal for information, he almost executed the perfect crime, this hapless recidivist, this perennial partially successful offender.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 07:21:38 AM by The General »
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4186 on: March 02, 2022, 07:29:00 AM »
It was Encarnacao who suggested that Madeleine fell from the back of the couch under the window, and he and Neves who, Kate alleges, subjected the McCanns to an off the record accusatory interview on 8th August 2007. Imo they were completely involved.
The PJ thought the dogs were infallible. Never been wrong in 200 cases. No false positives ever. If that was true then Maddie died in the apartment and the McCanns were involved... But it wasn't true... It was total BS. The PJ believed total BS

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4187 on: March 02, 2022, 07:34:42 AM »
Ah, the sceptics lord and truthmaster, Mister Amaral. A man who seemingly cannot figure out how someone can break in through an unlocked sliding door. And who has apparently yet to discover in all his years of police work, that people who deliberately break into places tend to wear gloves. Quite what he means by "other evidence" we can only wonder. Perhaps he was hoping for some giant muddy footprints, some body fluids randomly sprayed about the place or perhaps the intruder's wallet fallen out of his pocket.
One has to question whether, if the abductor had left footprints, body fluids or a business card, the police and their forensic team were actually up to the job of actually discovering it.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4188 on: March 02, 2022, 07:55:50 AM »
Everyone in the police has superiors right up to the very top, are you suggesting that no one below the rank of Toppermost Cop is able to decide for themselves on the direction of an investigation?

Those running an investigation decide on it's direction. Changing that direction is unlikely to happen without their agreement.

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4189 on: March 02, 2022, 08:06:29 AM »
Those running an investigation decide on it's direction. Changing that direction is unlikely to happen without their agreement.
I thought police were supposed to be open-minded and led by the evidence, not set a course determined by their superiors and stick to it rigidly without argument.  But, hey what do I know.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4190 on: March 02, 2022, 08:10:43 AM »
Ah, the sceptics lord and truthmaster, Mister Amaral. A man who seemingly cannot figure out how someone can break in through an unlocked sliding door. And who has apparently yet to discover in all his years of police work, that people who deliberately break into places tend to wear gloves. Quite what he means by "other evidence" we can only wonder. Perhaps he was hoping for some giant muddy footprints, some body fluids randomly sprayed about the place or perhaps the intruder's wallet fallen out of his pocket.

Perhaps Amaral was responding to the suggestion by Madeleine's parents that an abductor chose to ignore the unlocked door and decided to raise some shutters on the off chance that the window behind it was also unlocked? It was also achieved without leaving any evidence behind; except that seen by the two of them.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4191 on: March 02, 2022, 08:20:57 AM »
I thought police were supposed to be open-minded and led by the evidence, not set a course determined by their superiors and stick to it rigidly without argument.  But, hey what do I know.

Evidence may lead to a change of direction, but not without those in charge knowing and agreeing. Can you imagine the mess if they thought their team was investigating a missing person case when the team had actually decided to investigate a murder but didn't bother telling their superiors?
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4192 on: March 02, 2022, 08:42:39 AM »
Evidence may lead to a change of direction, but not without those in charge knowing and agreeing. Can you imagine the mess if they thought their team was investigating a missing person case when the team had actually decided to investigate a murder but didn't bother telling their superiors?
Where did I suggest that there would be no vertical communication at all?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Ms Para glider

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4193 on: March 02, 2022, 08:56:41 AM »
By this reasoning Herr B planned this meticulously - and the plan was executed perfectly.
He knew the sliding door was open and had planned exactly which child to snatch.
He disturbed nothing, including the twins, and was able to get in, take MM, and get out in between parental / friend monitoring. Nothing elaborate in the actual act, save for the planning perhaps, but you have to marvel at his timing.
Moreover, despite several associates latterly having misgivings and a global appeal for information, he almost executed the perfect crime, this hapless recidivist, this perennial partially successful offender.

Not necessarily. You can never underestimate the power of sheer dumb luck. Ultimately, if CB went in there initially with the intent to burgle (before something else happened and changed the course of events), he would likely have been suitably prepped to avoid leaving traces anyway. Gloves, hat etc. How many burglaries did he get caught for in Portugal? And there's no reason to believe he would have needed to disturb anything.

I wouldn't discount that he could have planned it out properly either though. Look at the rape of the 72 year old. How did he enter her home? An unlocked patio door. Already all dressed up in kit intended to avoid identification or leave forensics traces. That was pretty well planned out, he evaded capture for 14 years, even though PJ HAD found a forensic trace he left behind. And I know it's probably a bit premature to cite him as being responsible for the Hazel B attack, but that too showed an element of pre-planning. Again entering through an unlocked sliding door. She states the intruder knew her name and says that someone had already been in her apartment a few days beforehand as money was missing and things moved around. If reports that his fingerprint has been found there are true, you really do have to start questioning how competent the PJ really are. It might be less a case of CB executing the "perfect crime", and more a case of PJ executing another poor investigation.

Offline barrier

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4194 on: March 02, 2022, 09:04:07 AM »
Not necessarily. You can never underestimate the power of sheer dumb luck. Ultimately, if CB went in there initially with the intent to burgle (before something else happened and changed the course of events), he would likely have been suitably prepped to avoid leaving traces anyway. Gloves, hat etc. How many burglaries did he get caught for in Portugal? And there's no reason to believe he would have needed to disturb anything.

I wouldn't discount that he could have planned it out properly either though. Look at the rape of the 72 year old. How did he enter her home? An unlocked patio door. Already all dressed up in kit intended to avoid identification or leave forensics traces. That was pretty well planned out, he evaded capture for 14 years, even though PJ HAD found a forensic trace he left behind. And I know it's probably a bit premature to cite him as being responsible for the Hazel B attack, but that too showed an element of pre-planning. Again entering through an unlocked sliding door. She states the intruder knew her name and says that someone had already been in her apartment a few days beforehand as money was missing and things moved around. If reports that his fingerprint has been found there are true, you really do have to start questioning how competent the PJ really are. It might be less a case of CB executing the "perfect crime", and more a case of PJ executing another poor investigation.

Yet the BKA who interviewed CB in 2013 found nothing suspicious, still you know its quiet when the go to Amaral thread is the most posted on at the mo.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4195 on: March 02, 2022, 09:25:52 AM »
Yet the BKA who interviewed CB in 2013 found nothing suspicious, still you know its quiet when the go to Amaral thread is the most posted on at the mo.
If they found nothing suspicious on CB, why is he now their prime suspect?  Interviews don’t tend to turn up forensic evidence anyway.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4196 on: March 02, 2022, 09:35:07 AM »
Yet the BKA who interviewed CB in 2013 found nothing suspicious, still you know its quiet when the go to Amaral thread is the most posted on at the mo.

Crime on Portugal.. Investigation by UK.. Questioned by Germany... The dots had not been joined at that stage

Offline Ms Para glider

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4197 on: March 02, 2022, 09:48:55 AM »
Perhaps Amaral was responding to the suggestion by Madeleine's parents that an abductor chose to ignore the unlocked door and decided to raise some shutters on the off chance that the window behind it was also unlocked? It was also achieved without leaving any evidence behind; except that seen by the two of them.

Perhaps he was, but as a police investigator, it's his job to consider that maybe the window wasn't used to enter (or exit). Not just work off the parents theory, even though it was understandable why they might have initially thought that was the entry point when faced with that scenario.

Once inside the apartment, an intruder could have left through either door, or the window without leaving traces of having done so. It is also possible to enter through the window provided it wasn't fully slid across on the latch without leaving traces. Possible to enter through the sliding patio door without leaving a trace. And if someone had access to the keys that were allegedly stolen from the OC, entry through the front door would have been easy too.

My point is, Amaral chooses to ignore all these other options and instead focusses on what the parents initially thought "might" have happened. And then discredits it by saying they found nobody else's fingerprints. The argument is a fallacy. He knows damn well that any person breaking and entering would be likely to use gloves and that there were plenty of ways to get in and out without leaving a trace.

Below is a summary of his theory using extracts from an interview he did. The holes in his argument are so glaring and easy to rip to pieces, that it's hard to take the man seriously as a police investigator. He can concoct a theory as fantastical as this but not accept that it is possible to enter and leave an unlocked apartment without leaving a trace? I think even the interviewer was left scratching her head at what they were listening to, with Amaral completely dodging every question that called the credibility of his theory into question.

The mother said that the window of the room was open when she saw that the girl was not there. That is not correct, the window was closed and is impossible that the girl left that way. 

And there are other things. The mother says that she entered in the room and that the windows were open and the shutters were raised. No one else saw that. They simulated a kidnapping.

There were no unknown fingerprints in the apartment, of course they could have used gloves, that is true, but that could not have been the case. 

The child could have fallen from a sofa, could have had an accident with Calpol

The father was talking to a friend just outside that window for a while. The girl did not have a a heavy sleep, that's what the parents said. Perhaps she heard her father and climbed to the sofa bellow the window. But the parents, for the girl not to go out, moved it away from the wall. Madeleine could have fallen.

It is the mother who finds the girl dead.

I want to recall that there is an Irish man who claimed to have seen Gerry McCann with a girl in his arms, on his way towards the beach that same night. That testimony has been hidden.

To me, Gerry hid Madeleine's body on the beach. And after a few days he moved her with his car. We work following this lead. 

For there to be vestiges in the boot of the car rented 23 days later, they must have preserved (frozen) the corpse in some way. I believe that when they put it in the boot, with the heat of those days in the Algarve,  happened a similar situation with that of the shopping bags, which melt and then the water is transferred to the car.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/goncalo-amaral-in-el-mundo-gerry-mccann-hid-m-08-0-t4122.html

Offline Ms Para glider

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4198 on: March 02, 2022, 09:57:43 AM »
Yet the BKA who interviewed CB in 2013 found nothing suspicious, still you know its quiet when the go to Amaral thread is the most posted on at the mo.

They asked a few questions. They had no background knowledge of the case and were simply fulfilling a request from the Met to speak to him. They weren't carrying out an investigation like the PJ were.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #4199 on: March 02, 2022, 10:06:19 AM »
Perhaps he was, but as a police investigator, it's his job to consider that maybe the window wasn't used to enter (or exit). Not just work off the parents theory, even though it was understandable why they might have initially thought that was the entry point when faced with that scenario.

Once inside the apartment, an intruder could have left through either door, or the window without leaving traces of having done so. It is also possible to enter through the window provided it wasn't fully slid across on the latch without leaving traces. Possible to enter through the sliding patio door without leaving a trace. And if someone had access to the keys that were allegedly stolen from the OC, entry through the front door would have been easy too.

My point is, Amaral chooses to ignore all these other options and instead focusses on what the parents initially thought "might" have happened. And then discredits it by saying they found nobody else's fingerprints. The argument is a fallacy. He knows damn well that any person breaking and entering would be likely to use gloves and that there were plenty of ways to get in and out without leaving a trace.

Below is a summary of his theory using extracts from an interview he did. The holes in his argument are so glaring and easy to rip to pieces, that it's hard to take the man seriously as a police investigator. He can concoct a theory as fantastical as this but not accept that it is possible to enter and leave an unlocked apartment without leaving a trace? I think even the interviewer was left scratching her head at what they were listening to, with Amaral completely dodging every question that called the credibility of his theory into question.

The mother said that the window of the room was open when she saw that the girl was not there. That is not correct, the window was closed and is impossible that the girl left that way.

And there are other things. The mother says that she entered in the room and that the windows were open and the shutters were raised. No one else saw that. They simulated a kidnapping.

There were no unknown fingerprints in the apartment, of course they could have used gloves, that is true, but that could not have been the case.

The child could have fallen from a sofa, could have had an accident with Calpol

The father was talking to a friend just outside that window for a while. The girl did not have a a heavy sleep, that's what the parents said. Perhaps she heard her father and climbed to the sofa bellow the window. But the parents, for the girl not to go out, moved it away from the wall. Madeleine could have fallen.

It is the mother who finds the girl dead.

I want to recall that there is an Irish man who claimed to have seen Gerry McCann with a girl in his arms, on his way towards the beach that same night. That testimony has been hidden.

To me, Gerry hid Madeleine's body on the beach. And after a few days he moved her with his car. We work following this lead.

For there to be vestiges in the boot of the car rented 23 days later, they must have preserved (frozen) the corpse in some way. I believe that when they put it in the boot, with the heat of those days in the Algarve,  happened a similar situation with that of the shopping bags, which melt and then the water is transferred to the car.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/goncalo-amaral-in-el-mundo-gerry-mccann-hid-m-08-0-t4122.html

Do you see the parent's opinion on stranger abduction as a theory? I think they presented it very much as a fact. It was very quickly being reported as a fact by the media too. Pointing out that there was no evidence to support this 'fact' was a natural response imo.
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