Other witnesses cast doubt on Bundleman sighting?

[Jacinta]

hi Jacinta, what relevance has Wilkins seeing Tanner at 8.30?

If Jeremy Wilkins saw Jane Tanner at 8.30pm but not when he was talking to Gerry McCann at 9.15pm, then it suggests that she might have combined the two in her statement. In other words, she didn't see them chatting but might have heard Gerry McCann saying at the table he bumped into Jeremy Wilkins. If she wasn't there at 9.15 then she could not have seen the abductor strolling across the street.

I don't think this is something that Gerry McCann asked her to do though.

DCI, I've replied to your post on the previous page 

[DCI]

If Jeremy Wilkins saw Jane Tanner at 8.30pm but not when he was talking to Gerry McCann at 9.15pm, then it suggests that she might have combined the two in her statement. In other words, she didn't see them chatting but might have heard Gerry McCann saying at the table he bumped into Jeremy Wilkins. If she wasn't there at 9.15 then she could not have seen the abductor strolling across the street.

I don't think this is something that Gerry McCann asked her to do though.

DCI, I've replied to your post on the previous page 

I don't think so Jacinta, he would have seen Jane on her way to dinner at 8.30. She went to dinner on her own, and returned to let hubby go at 9.15.

Q. Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007;
As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time.

Q. Relative to the exact location you met Gerry'
I left my apartment pushing my son's pram so that he could sleep. I did not have a particular direction to follow nor did I have a specific time to do this. I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner.

So Jez first saw Jane on her way to dinner! He left his apartment around 8.30 pm, not between (between 8.15pm and 8.30pm), as you stated!

Jane Tanner
The witness went for dinner at the Tapas restaurant at about 20.30.

No problem re dates, just that yours was April, not May 

[Redblossom]

If Jeremy Wilkins saw Jane Tanner at 8.30pm but not when he was talking to Gerry McCann at 9.15pm, then it suggests that she might have combined the two in her statement. In other words, she didn't see them chatting but might have heard Gerry McCann saying at the table he bumped into Jeremy Wilkins. If she wasn't there at 9.15 then she could not have seen the abductor strolling across the street.

I don't think this is something that Gerry McCann asked her to do though.

DCI, I've replied to your post on the previous page 

OK thanks for the reply Jacinta, but I doubt it personally. She specifically mentioned them in conversation at a specific place and at a specific time and walking past both of them, and she told her friends later that night about it, I doubt you get amnesia/clouded memories so quick. 

[Jacinta]

I don't think so Jacinta, he would have seen Jane on her way to dinner at 8.30. She went to dinner on her own, and returned to let hubby go at 9.15.

Q. Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007;
As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time.

Q. Relative to the exact location you met Gerry'
I left my apartment pushing my son's pram so that he could sleep. I did not have a particular direction to follow nor did I have a specific time to do this. I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner.

So Jez first saw Jane on her way to dinner! He left his apartment around 8.30 pm, not between (between 8.15pm and 8.30pm), as you stated!

Jane Tanner
The witness went for dinner at the Tapas restaurant at about 20.30.

No problem re dates, just that yours was April, not May 

I didn't state the times DCI, I copied them from the statements made by Jeremy Wilkins and DC 1756 Mike Marshal although I hadn't realised until checking my notes today that I'd originally mistaken Mike Marshal's statement as being that of Jeremy Wilkins.

So yes I agree, as Jeremy Wilkins twice states 8.30pm then that must be the correct time (ignoring the time stated by Mike Marshal).

Still, no one saw Jane Tanner at 9.15 which is why I'm wondering if she was really there at that time.

[Jacinta]

OK thanks for the reply Jacinta, but I doubt it personally. She specifically mentioned them in conversation at a specific place and at a specific time and walking past both of them, and she told her friends later that night about it, I doubt you get amnesia/clouded memories so quick.

I was suggesting she perhaps lied about seeing the abductor, GM and JW. According to Kate McCann's statement Gerry McCann mentioned bumping into Jeremy Wilkins on his return to the Tapas Bar after checking on the children so it would be quite easy to include that part to add more credence to seeing the abductor?

Kate McCann statement

04/05/07

Thus, at around 9pm, her husband went to the apartment to make sure the twins, as well as Madeleine, were OK, then he went back to the restaurant. Her husband said that the children were doing well and that he had bumped into the person with whom he had played tennis, a person who has two children.
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

September 6/2007
He'd met a tennis friend by the name of Jez, with whom he had a chat.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

With all that out of the  way I'm giving up on this. Super sleuth I am not  and will leave it up to the much better informed members of this forum 

[sadie]

I was suggesting she perhaps lied about seeing the abductor, GM and JW. According to Kate McCann's statement Gerry McCann mentioned bumping into Jeremy Wilkins on his return to the Tapas Bar after checking on the children so it would be quite easy to include that part to add more credence to seeing the abductor?

Kate McCann statement

04/05/07

Thus, at around 9pm, her husband went to the apartment to make sure the twins, as well as Madeleine, were OK, then he went back to the restaurant. Her husband said that the children were doing well and that he had bumped into the person with whom he had played tennis, a person who has two children.
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

September 6/2007
He'd met a tennis friend by the name of Jez, with whom he had a chat.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

With all that out of the  way I'm giving up on this. Super sleuth I am not  and will leave it up to the much better informed members of this forum 

Jacinta

Have just been reading the statements of Russell, Jane Tanners partner.  Statements of 4th May and 11th May


From these, I think there is no doubt that Jane did, in fact, check their apartment at about 9.10 -9.17pm
I also think from Jerry and Jezes statements, there is no doubt that they did chat at that alleyway corner at about the same time.

So seems that your thoughts about Jane NOT seeing Gerry and Jez are ill founded.
I believe her that she also saw bundleman ... and that it was at about 9.15, give or take a few minutes.

[icabodcrane]

Jacinta

Have just been reading the statements of Russell, Jane Tanners partner.  Statements of 4th May and 11th May


From these, I think there is no doubt that Jane did, in fact, check their apartment at about 9.10 -9.17pm
I also think from Jerry and Jezes statements, there is no doubt that they did chat at that alleyway corner at about the same time.

So seems that your thoughts about Jane NOT seeing Gerry and Jez are ill founded.
I believe her that she also saw bundleman ... and that it was at about 9.15, give or take a few minutes.

It is simply not possible to say  "there is no doubt"  that  Jane checked her apartment at 9.10 - 9.17pm 

What is this  'undoubted'  fact based on  ?  ...  her word,  and that of her mates  ? 

There are no independant witnesses who confirm it  ...  not even Jez Wilkins,  who she says she passed in the street within touching distance of 

There is very much    'a doubt'  that  the events Jane Tanner claims happened,  actually  did

[sadie]

It is simply not possible to say  "there is no doubt"  that  Jane checked her apartment at 9.10 - 9.17pm 

What is this  'undoubted'  fact based on  ?  ...  her word,  and that of her mates  ? 

There are no independant witnesses who confirm it  ...  not even Jez Wilkins,  who she says she passed in the street within touching distance of 

There is very much    'a doubt'  that  the events Jane Tanner claims happened,  actually  did

Well Icabod, from your posts it is obvious that anything said by any of the Tapas party is to be considered untrue.  Strange that the AG and SY dont feel the same


With your ultra suspicious mind, how come that Amaral and Co never tell any untruths?  Why do you blindly follow what he says.  Remember that he and many of his "crew" have criminal records.  The Mccanns and CO are all free from any criminal convictions.

I do find it strange that you believe everything that a criminal tells you but refuse to believe the word of people who are free from any indicators of dishosety


I dont think that you can be much of a judge of Character t.b.h

[icabodcrane]

Well Icabod, from your posts it is obvious that anything said by any of the Tapas party is to be considered untrue.  Strange that the AG and SY dont feel the same


With your ultra suspicious mind, how come that Amaral and Co never tell any untruths?  Why do you blindly follow what he says.  Remember that he and many of his "crew" have criminal records.  The Mccanns and CO are all free from any criminal convictions.

I do find it strange that you believe everything that a criminal tells you but refuse to believe the word of people who are free from any indicators of dishosety


I dont think that you can be much of a judge of Character t.b.h

I don't know why you have made that assumption  ...  I am no Amaral  'fan'

I have  always said that the Portuguese investigation was deeply flawed

Not for the same reasons you do though  ...  my thinking in more in line with Lee Rainbow and Mark Harrison,  whose intervention led to the Portuguese investigation becoming more 'police'  driven than  'politically'  driven 

Too late by then though