Author Topic: Kate McCann admits in her book that private criminal investigations in Portugal were illegal.  (Read 107427 times)

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Offline Carana

Why?

Are you asking about a situation where I go to the PJ to volunteer information that has come to my attention and is relevant to the investigation?  If I know a crime has been perpetrated, should I not report it?

The thread topic is conducting a private criminal investigation in Portugal, and the info in Kate's book that this is illegal.

If anyone can come up with a private investigation in Portugal known to the police, then the question would be answered.

Sifting through the entire penal code, translating it accurately, analysing the result, merely to work out if such an investigation is explicitly prohibited or instead effectively prohibited by a collection of combined articles sounds like an arduous task for very limited reward.

We may be at cross-purposes.

I can find nothing in the penal code that any information provided to the PJ with the intention of assisting the investigation, using legal means, would be illegal.



Offline faithlilly

You obviously haven't read the files.

I'll warrant Martin Smith has.

The Times lost a libel action against the McCanns when its Insight team (so-called!) screwed up on this very point

Not that point.

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sunday-times-sued-mccanns-over-story-which-wrongly-claimed-evidence-was-withheld-police
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

ferryman

  • Guest
Very much the point.

Offline slartibartfast

Not that point.

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sunday-times-sued-mccanns-over-story-which-wrongly-claimed-evidence-was-withheld-police

Yes, the Times couldn't prove that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities, hence libel.

Quote
We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities. This was not the case./quote]
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

ferryman

  • Guest
It was conclusively proved that nothing was withheld from the police.

Never mind.

Offline ShiningInLuz

We may be at cross-purposes.

I can find nothing in the penal code that any information provided to the PJ with the intention of assisting the investigation, using legal means, would be illegal.
I cannot for a moment think why information obtained legally and passed to the PJ would somehow become illegal.

The e-fits produced by the PIs were done legally, (I think but have not checked), in a country outside of Portugal, in a manner which would be (I believe) illegal in Portugal.

Would this render the information illegal in Portugal?  I don't know.

Would this mean the PJ could not use this information?  I don't know.

Would this mean the evidence would not be permissible in a prosecution?  I don't know.

Answering these 3 questions would require digging through vast tracts of the penal code.  Personally, I am not interested enough in this point to invest the time and effort required to reach an informed viewpoint.

If we return to Mrs Murat, if she was investigating, I would think her information would be deemed illegal.

If she was not and her effort was legal, I can see no reason why the PJ could not include her information as intelligence.

If her sources were not named, I doubt the information could be used further.  I don't see anonymous information being used beyond that e.g. to get a court enter to search premises without the owner's permission, or to feature in any way in a prosecution.

Information thought to have originated from the work of private investigators working within Portugal is a curate's egg.  The likelihood is that such information was obtained in an illegal way.  It would not become legal merely because someone said 'trust me, this was obtained legally',  It would require convincing proof that it had been obtained legally.  All IMO as I am not an expert in this area.

I will stick with Kate's view, that effectively private investigation into a criminal act within Portugal would be illegal.  Further that this has nothing to do with whether there is an investigation by Portuguese authorities that is active or not.

The McCanns seem to have considered this situation.  To do the best they could in the situation, they chose private investigators based outside of Portugal.  It would appear from the Times article that this information was passed to the Portuguese authorities.  I am not clear as to whether the Portuguese team was active at that time.  I can't see the relevance, unless the e-fits were, possibly with other information, deemed to be new evidence, in the hopes of getting a fresh Portuguese investigation.

Assuming that was the intent, should the PJ have started a fresh investigation?  If the only information passed was the e-fits, the answer is a resounding no. What were they supposed to believe?  Statements made on 26 May 2007 that the 3 people would not be able to recognise the man again and provided little information re his face. Or e-fits made many months after the event, which purport to be the same man but which look markedly different?

What was the PJ supposed to do with the e-fits?  Basically, they don't do appeals to the public.  So within Portugal, those e-fits had VERY limited value.

The Crimewatch 2013 programme WAS reported, as a news item, in Portuguese media.  Everything I've seen in Portuguese media makes Smithman a SUSPECT.  That is NOT the position put forward by OG in Crimewatch 2013, but it is common parlance in the media within Portugal.

Even if Smithman recognises himself, if he is Portuguese he has a disincentive to clear things up.

We appear to be going all round the houses on this one.  If OG shelves and the McCanns start another PI team, I have no doubt whatsoever that the team will be based outside of Portugal.  What they can do on the ground in Portugal in terms of investigating is very little, assuming they wish to remain legal.  But there is more than one way to skin a cat.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 02:49:58 PM by ShiningInLuz »
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