Eleven years on, has Maddie been given up for dead?

[Venturi Swirl]

That's not for me to say. All I can say is there's no evidence which confirms the assertion.

There’s no evidence which confirms Martin Smith’s assertion, I’m sure you’ll agree.

[Carana]

Posters are reminded not to get distracted by side issues. 

This thread relates to current events or more precisely the absence of them when considering if the case is being intentionally allowed to peter out.

I see no reason for it to peter out "intentionally".

As in many other cases, when available potential leads fizzle out, then cases go back into hibernation until such time as new credible information turns up. And sometimes, new info does turn up via a newer investigation in which databases can be consulted for potential links.

[Angelo222]

Jenny Murat is an elderly former local who happens to be fluent in both English and Portuguese (which most of the GNR and the PJ weren't) and, at that time, unconnected to the saga.

I find it quite plausible that she was a) aware of the language barrier and b) could think of numerous reasons why people with potentially useful information might have been reluctant to queue up for formal police interviews.

The McCanns didn't, quite aside from the fact that by all accounts they were barely able to function in the initial aftermath.

How could they have manned a stand inviting anonymous tips with the world's media filming everyone who came anywhere near them?

Doing just that might have stood the McCanns in better stead with the Portuguese people instead of scurrying off home as soon as the police allowed them.

Had the McCanns made some effort with the Portuguese people this case might have been solved long ago.

[Venturi Swirl]

Doing just that might have stood the McCanns in better stead with the Portuguese people instead of scurrying off home as soon as the police allowed them.

Had the McCanns made some effort with the Portuguese people this case might have been solved long ago.

How so?  Are you suggesting that people in Portugal have been deliberately witholding evidence in this case simply because of their dislike of the McCanns?

[Mr Gray]

Doing just that might have stood the McCanns in better stead with the Portuguese people instead of scurrying off home as soon as the police allowed them.

Had the McCanns made some effort with the Portuguese people this case might have been solved long ago.

The portuguese people have been convinced by amaral that maddie died in the apartment and the parents covered it up.....so there wont be any help coming from there...the SC reinforced it...and thats why the ECHR case is so important...there is nothing the mccanns could do to counter such propaganda

[Robittybob1]

Jenny Murat is an elderly former local who happens to be fluent in both English and Portuguese (which most of the GNR and the PJ weren't) and, at that time, unconnected to the saga.

I find it quite plausible that she was a) aware of the language barrier and b) could think of numerous reasons why people with potentially useful information might have been reluctant to queue up for formal police interviews.

The McCanns didn't, quite aside from the fact that by all accounts they were barely able to function in the initial aftermath.

How could they have manned a stand inviting anonymous tips with the world's media filming everyone who came anywhere near them?

Did Jenny  Murat set up this booth before or just after Robert was made arguido? 

[G-Unit]

Snip
But Mr Totman, a GP, had already told the Guarda Nacional Republicana in May that he could be the man seen by Ms Tanner that night.
Wife Rachel told the Sun: ‘My husband had told the local police it could be him but we didn’t hear anything for years. ‘We always thought it was Julian who was seen by Jane Tanner. But the national police who investigated didn’t get back to us and we don’t know if our information was ever passed on.’ Rachel, who lives with Julian in the West Country, said police in the UK and Portugal never got back to them.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/07/madeleine-mccann-police-wasted-years-hunting-man-already-spoken-7527943/?ito=cbshare



A garbled and in my opinion an inaccurately assessed version was put on his internet blog by Paolo Reis in 2009.  Which in my opinion reveals that the information was there in 2007 and although misinterpreted by this blogger was available and ready for further police investigation which might have progressed Madeleine's case. In my opinion the case for the allegation that important information which might have helped to recover Madeleine was ignored is self evident from snippets like this and the testimony of witnesses saying they had given information and heard nothing further.
In my opinion the evidence is that the police had determined an agenda and ignored anything that did not fit their preconceived version of events.


 
Snip
Light was thrown on the identity of “JW” in an article in the Sun on 12th May 2009 by Antonella Lazzeri (another McCann close confidante) who stated:
She is a 36 year old mother of two: one a 3 year old girl
She rented an apartment 3 doors away from Apartment 5A
She reported her suspicions to her local police – in Wiltshire – in May 2007
***************************************************************
Another link between the Weinbur or Weinbergers and Wiltshire is the fact that they made dinner bookings at the Tapas Bar with Dr Julian Totman who is also from Salisbury in Wiltshire.
Miss Lazzeri reported that JW, on returning from Portugal, in May 2007, informed her local police – based in Wiltshire (and thus a link to Paul M Weinberger in Wiltshire) who advised the Leicestershire police who
“failed to follow up her lead. It was only when she received an emotional phone call from Maddie’s mum Kate nearly two years later (thus in April or May 2009 possibly to get a bit more spice for the Channel 4 program) that a photofit based on her description was put together…. When Kate asked me to help, I agreed immediately. But the police should have asked 2 years ago. It was only after Kate got in touch that the woman learnt two other witnesses saw an identical man… I can’t believe our three sightings weren’t linked earlier”
The problem is, which “JW” was not told, that the descriptions given to the PJ by the “two other witnesses” were nothing like “Pimple Man” and that their reports had been fully investigated, the suspects identified and eliminated. But failure to act on “JW’s” evidence adds to the Leicestershire Police’s record of tardiness in its delayed handing of the statements of Kate and Arul, photographs of potential suspects: not to mention a recent detailed report on the crčche records. Can any police force be that bad? Or was Leicestershire’s job simply to kill the investigation, possibly on Home Office instructions, whose political intervention – in such cases as Damian Green – are so worrying? And if “JW” attached any importance to her sighting why did she do nothing further about it for 2 years, especially when it might have qualified her for a large reward? And why did Kate McCann leave it until the last moment to call her? The bottom line is that “JW’s” “evidence” justifies very close scrutiny.

So according to Totman's wife they were ignored by the GNR and the UK police? Hoe unlucky!

[Robittybob1]

So according to Totman's wife they were ignored by the GNR and the UK police? Hoe unlucky!

How suspicious don't you mean?

[Venturi Swirl]

How suspicious don't you mean?

That does seem to be the inference.

[Robittybob1]

That does seem to be the inference.

unlucky is rather different to suspicious to me so I missed that, but you are right pass it off as "unlucky" then, very suspicious.

[misty]

Did Jenny  Murat set up this booth before or just after Robert was made arguido?

Before.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JENNIFER-MURAT.htm
"Relative to the facts concerning the disappearance of the English child, the deponent states that because she has been in Portugal for a long time and knows many people, she decided to mount a "post" to collect information in order to be able to determine things about the subject and thus could channel them to the competent authorities. For three days (Friday 11/05, Saturday 12/05 and Sunday 13/05) she was at the "post" mounted near to the cinema having obtained some information that she gave to Robert who, in turn, gave it to the Police.
--- Her idea was to try to sensitise people not to feel intimidated by the presence of police and lead them to give all the information that they knew."

On Sat 12/5 & Sun 13/5 RM thought his vehicle (presumably the Hyundai) was being followed.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MICHAELA_WALCZUCH.htm

"Asked she relates that she noticed no difference in his behaviour, either from the day(s) 3-4 May, or in the last 3 days. She continues to note that he is "upset, concerned by this whole situation of translating, picking up details that nobody else knows, that he hears, in addition to the situation about which he is already sad" (sic). Asked on the same question, she answered that on Saturday, when they dined together, and yesterday, Sunday, on the telephone, ROBERT showed "naturalness and normality even when on both those occasions he said to her that he perceived or suspected that a car came behind him, glued to him", without attributing suspicion to the police. She clarifies that she cannot manage to recall if he told her that the possible followers were Police. She advances, with difficulty, that ultimately Robert had tried to clarify the matter with the police itself. This fact was transmitted in a phone call that she received from him at 00:00 today."


On Sunday 13th VW used at information post was reportedly washed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MICHAELA_WALCZUCH.htm
"--- Asked, she states that on the 13 May last she was with Robert washing the VW Transporter at GALP-Lagos because it was dirty."

On Sun 13th PJ request warrant to search his premises & vehicles.
04-Volume IV, pp. 995 to 1001

On Mon 14th at 0720hrs PJ enter Casa Liliana.




We can only speculate whose idea it was to set up the information post 8 days after Madeleine's disappearance. I can recall from the news footage at the time that the green V/W could be seen with its rear door open & there was a mattress on the floor in the back. That seemed odd at the time, as Mrs Murat was sitting at a table nearby.

[Brietta]

So according to Totman's wife they were ignored by the GNR and the UK police? Hoe unlucky!

Quite ... and I am sure you can see the significance of that.
If he had "told the Guarda Nacional Republicana in May" of his whereabouts and "didn’t hear anything for years" there must have been a massive breakdown of communication somewhere along the line which had the potential of providing information which might have advanced the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

That nothing was heard for years suggests to me that they heard nothing until Scotland Yard started reviewing the case and is probably an indication of the type of the 195 investigative opportunities to which DCI Redwood referred.

In my opinion that is inexcusable.

There was no feedback and they didn't "know if our information was ever passed on" because no-one ever got back to them.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/07/madeleine-mccann-police-wasted-years-hunting-man-already-spoken-7527943/?ito=cbshare

On that basis I would be of the opinion your criticism of the police deserves to lie squarely where it should and that is in Portugal.
If the appropriate action had been taken based on information received in May 2007 instead of forming the opinion that Madeleine was dead ... tying up the loose ends such as Dr Totman's statement could have led to her recovery.

[slartibartfast]

Quite ... and I am sure you can see the significance of that.
If he had "told the Guarda Nacional Republicana in May" of his whereabouts and "didn’t hear anything for years" there must have been a massive breakdown of communication somewhere along the line which had the potential of providing information which might have advanced the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

That nothing was heard for years suggests to me that they heard nothing until Scotland Yard started reviewing the case and is probably an indication of the type of the 195 investigative opportunities to which DCI Redwood referred.

In my opinion that is inexcusable.

There was no feedback and they didn't "know if our information was ever passed on" because no-one ever got back to them.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/07/madeleine-mccann-police-wasted-years-hunting-man-already-spoken-7527943/?ito=cbshare

On that basis I would be of the opinion your criticism of the police deserves to lie squarely where it should and that is in Portugal.
If the appropriate action had been taken based on information received in May 2007 instead of forming the opinion that Madeleine was dead ... tying up the loose ends such as Dr Totman's statement could have led to her recovery.

I think it depends on what “told the GNR” actually entailed.

[G-Unit]

Quite ... and I am sure you can see the significance of that.
If he had "told the Guarda Nacional Republicana in May" of his whereabouts and "didn’t hear anything for years" there must have been a massive breakdown of communication somewhere along the line which had the potential of providing information which might have advanced the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

That nothing was heard for years suggests to me that they heard nothing until Scotland Yard started reviewing the case and is probably an indication of the type of the 195 investigative opportunities to which DCI Redwood referred.

In my opinion that is inexcusable.

There was no feedback and they didn't "know if our information was ever passed on" because no-one ever got back to them.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/07/madeleine-mccann-police-wasted-years-hunting-man-already-spoken-7527943/?ito=cbshare

On that basis I would be of the opinion your criticism of the police deserves to lie squarely where it should and that is in Portugal.
If the appropriate action had been taken based on information received in May 2007 instead of forming the opinion that Madeleine was dead ... tying up the loose ends such as Dr Totman's statement could have led to her recovery.

I'm sure the PJ would have been most interested. They could have pretty much eliminated Jane Tanner's sighting just as OG did in 2013. Jane would have been relieved that she didn't see the abductor. Gerry would have been reassured that no abductor was in the apartment moving doors. (I wonder who did that?)

[Brietta]

I think it depends on what “told the GNR” actually entailed.

Precisely.
Who knew about Tannerman in May 2007? 
Was Dr Totman interviewed along with the other crechedads/mums?
Or did he volunteer his information.