Poll

Do you have reservations as to Dr Vincent Tabak's guilt as a murderer?

Guilty as Charged
10 (55.6%)
Guilty of Manslaughter not Murder
3 (16.7%)
Think he could be Innocent
3 (16.7%)
He is Innocent
2 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: April 06, 2017, 02:30:27 PM

Author Topic: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?  (Read 32917 times)

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Offline Leonora

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2017, 01:30:13 PM »
Actually no.  That's why when someone is clinically sane and pleads guilty we don't require a trial.  Tabal pled guilty to the lesser charge of manslaughter which would have seen him get out of jail after several years but the CPS went for murder thus the trial and the life sentence which will see him spend at least 20 years in prison.
I am aware that DCI Phil Jones stated, after the plea hearing on 5 May 2011, that a "full trial" would be held because Vincent Tabak denied the charge of murder though pleading guilty to manslaughter. However, when Judge Treacy set out the timetable at the third preliminary hearing on 31 January 2011, this timetable included a plea hearing on 4 May 2011 and a trial beginning 4 October 2011, both at Bristol Crown Court. At this time, Vincent Tabak had appeared at no fewer than three public hearings without once entering a plea. The judge's timetable implies that on 31 January Vincent Tabak still denied having anything to do with Joanna's death.

I seriously doubt your claim that some defendants get convicted of murder without any trial. This is in any case academic, because your reiterated appeals to "normal" procedure carry no weight when seen in the light of the uniquely abnormal behaviour of Counsel for the Defence in the trial of Vincent Tabak.

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2017, 02:04:24 PM »
Im trying to clarify where Joanna Yeates worked... Think Im confused.. Yes BDP... has been mentioned , I also read that they moved to Bristol with the firm Hyland Edgar Driver... So when did they both switch firms??

Offline mrswah

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Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2017, 02:14:30 PM »
Im trying to clarify where Joanna Yeates worked... Think Im confused.. Yes BDP... has been mentioned , I also read that they moved to Bristol with the firm Hyland Edgar Driver... So when did they both switch firms??

As far as I can recall, Jo switched firms, although I don't know when.  It is true that she and Greg met at Hyland Edgar Driver, where both off them worked originally. As far as I know, Greg still works there.

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #78 on: April 09, 2017, 02:17:33 PM »
As far as I can recall, Jo switched firms, although I don't know when.  It is true that she and Greg met at Hyland Edgar Driver, where both off them worked originally. As far as I know, Greg still works there.

But I thought that they both worked at the same firm... so if Greg still works there when did he work at BDP????

He saw her after work, didn't he... kissed her goodbye... so he must have finished around the same time as she did... It's only 1 minutes walk to The Ram from BDP.. that was why I was trying to work out what time they finished work...

Quote
Reardon has returned to the office where he used to work with Yeates and has bought a flat in Bristol.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/dec/14/joanna-yeates-boyfriend-talks-sun


Quote
After graduating in 2004, he qualified as an architect in 2007.
Friends yesterday described him as an ‘exceptionally good’ skier who had organised events for the British University Snowsports Council after graduating.
Following qualification he worked for three firms of architects, and reached the finals of a national building exercise competition as a part of a team.

Wonder which firms...


 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340586/Boyfriend-missing-architect-Jo-Yeates-sobs-I-want-Christmas.html#ixzz4dl5rkzVc

Offline mrswah

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Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #79 on: April 09, 2017, 10:00:38 PM »
I believe they both worked at Hyland Edgar Driver, which is where they met. Then, Jo moved to BDP, but Greg stayed put.

They met at lunchtime on Friday 17th, not after work. After work,  Jo went to the Ram, with her colleagues (as she did every Friday evening), and Greg went home to get ready for his trip to Sheffield. That is when he had trouble with the car, which indicates that neither of them used the car for work. Cold weather, unused car---that's why the battery was flat, I assume.

There are various errors in the newspaper reports------for example, one reporter was saying that Vincent and Tanja had split up at the time of his arrest!

Offline Leonora

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #80 on: April 10, 2017, 01:30:53 PM »
... They met at lunchtime on Friday 17th, not after work...

There are various errors in the newspaper reports------for example, one reporter was saying that Vincent and Tanja had split up at the time of his arrest!
Actually Greg Reardon, testifying, told the Court that he and Joanna Yeates exchanged a "kiss and a cuddle" in the lobby of the office where they worked at 4.45 p.m. So they did meet briefly after work as well.

The claim that Vincent and Tanja had split up was not an "error" - it was what we now call "false news". The allegation was attributed to two or three neighbours, none of whom was named. If they had not wished to be named, then the reporter would have mentioned this. If the journalist got the story from the police, however, they would assume it was reliable, and print it "as is". Geoffrey Morson at first denied this allegation, but later on seemed to be less sure. Not until the trial did it emerge that, at a dinner party only five days before he was arrested, Tanja Morson had held Vincent Tabak's hand under the table and confided to her neighbour that they planned to get married.

Offline John

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #81 on: April 10, 2017, 02:52:25 PM »
Does anyone have a timeline for Vincent Tabak extending from the day he killed Joanna to the day of his conviction?

If anyone does, can you post it as a new thread please. TY
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 01:39:25 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #82 on: April 10, 2017, 03:11:29 PM »
Actually Greg Reardon, testifying, told the Court that he and Joanna Yeates exchanged a "kiss and a cuddle" in the lobby of the office where they worked at 4.45 p.m. So they did meet briefly after work as well.

The claim that Vincent and Tanja had split up was not an "error" - it was what we now call "false news". The allegation was attributed to two or three neighbours, none of whom was named. If they had not wished to be named, then the reporter would have mentioned this. If the journalist got the story from the police, however, they would assume it was reliable, and print it "as is". Geoffrey Morson at first denied this allegation, but later on seemed to be less sure. Not until the trial did it emerge that, at a dinner party only five days before he was arrested, Tanja Morson had held Vincent Tabak's hand under the table and confided to her neighbour that they planned to get married.


This is my slight problem... if she finished work at 4:45pm and its only 1 minutes walk to The Ram... what did she do for over an hour before The Ram??

She was supposed to be in the Ram between 6:00pm and 9:00pm

Offline Leonora

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #83 on: April 10, 2017, 04:12:55 PM »

This is my slight problem... if she finished work at 4:45pm and its only 1 minutes walk to The Ram... what did she do for over an hour before The Ram??

She was supposed to be in the Ram between 6:00pm and 9:00pm
I expect that Greg Reardon left work first, as he had a long journey ahead of him. I expect Joanna Yeates stayed in the office longer.

After work, Joanna took off the multi-coloured striped top she had been wearing, and put it into her rucksack. She and her Irish colleague Darragh Bellew left their office on Park Street together, withdrew money from a cash dispenser, and then walked up the hill to the Bristol Ram pub at 32 Park Street for a pre-Christmas office get-together with other staff from their office.

Greg Reardon got back to the flat at 5.20 p.m., he loaded his things for the weekend into the car he shared with Joanna – a Ford Ka registered in her name, which was parked by the kerb on 44 Canynge Road.

Offline Leonora

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #84 on: April 10, 2017, 04:29:50 PM »
Does anyone have a timeline for Vincent Tabak extending from the day he killed Joanna to the day of his conviction?

If anyone does, can you post it as a new thread please. TY
You have a way of putting things, John, that invites droll humour. The timeline you describe would be a very short one indeed, as those of us who have studied the case know that Vincent Tabak did not kill Joanna at all.

If you were to rephrase that by: "a timeline for Vincent Tabak extending from the day that Joanna went with colleagues to the Bristol Ram pub to the day of his conviction", on the other hand, it would be a rather long post, as it covers a period of eleven months.

Offline John

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #85 on: April 11, 2017, 01:45:41 PM »
You have a way of putting things, John, that invites droll humour. The timeline you describe would be a very short one indeed, as those of us who have studied the case know that Vincent Tabak did not kill Joanna at all.

If you were to rephrase that by: "a timeline for Vincent Tabak extending from the day that Joanna went with colleagues to the Bristol Ram pub to the day of his conviction", on the other hand, it would be a rather long post, as it covers a period of eleven months.

It is forum policy to deal with matters according to Law and that requires referring to Vincent Tabak as a convicted murderer. That said, I do appreciate you providing the timeline as requested.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 01:52:00 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #86 on: April 12, 2017, 05:55:11 PM »
The Joanna Yeates case fell squarely into our current investigation into the murders of a number of women in quite specific areas, particularly Bristol. Due to Tabak's conviction our investigation never started, even though Yeates met all the parameters, but now we have read all the viewpoints on here we are generating an inquiry, just a couple of folders so far with not a lot in them, but it's a start. Avon and Somerset Constabulary (A&S Const.) have known since 1981 they had a rogue killer out there but they were just quite without the ability, intellectual or otherwise, to resolve the issue, adopting as they have the functional, self deceiving, methodology of the Ostrich. The nature of the injuries inflicted on Yeates bear a striking familiarity to other women who have died at the hands of our primary suspect. This case against Tabak is unusual in that A&S Const. would have been desperate for a success, it doesn't matter whether they have the right man or not, they had to be seen to do something, anything. The next point is, "Why did Tabak submit a manslaughter plea?" Would a Dutch speaking (and I know the Dutch are excellent in their use of English) short term immigrant to the UK understand the nuances of the English Legal system, I doubt it personally. Would his command of English allow him to interpret correctly what anyone talking in police type slang was actually saying, I doubt that too, especially if you haven't been trained in R2I and are left disorientated by continuous questioning by changing pairs of officer's after many hours of sleep deprivation. This smacks of the standard hard guy, friendly guy, double act on the part of the interviewing police officers. Who put the idea into his head that his best option is to enter a plea of guilty to manslaughter, effectively removing the risk of a prosecution for murder, certainly not his advising solicitor, he'd have know that was utter nonsense. However, it would have been the police's best option to convince him that he would be protecting himself from the risk of going to trial on a murder charge by entering a false plea and suggesting how he could explain it away. Once Tabak had entered the plea he had enough sense to realise that withdrawing the plea was not going to be an option thereby risking a charge of murder being thrown straight back at him. What no-one had explained to him is that the judge in a UK court is at liberty to change any charge at any point. Another pyrrhic victory for the corruption that claims to represent justice if the truth turns out to be different.

Looking at connections.....

The only connection to certain cases is they either had graduated from University, worked at A university or were a student at a University,....

Glenis Caruthers..... Student ... Grass Verge

Melaine Hall ..... Graduate ... Grass Verge

Claudia Lawrence ....Worked.... ??? Not found

Joanna yeates ..... Graduate..... Grass Verge

All fair haired...

two had rusk sacks....

Three found on Grass Verges

If its possibly a serial killer... I think I read the other day that most serial Killers occupation in the Uk is Driver...

What about someone who works on the roads.... wouldn't be unusual to see such a person in any street or main road or motorway....

Where there road works near these people on these dates of disappearance????

Reading about Melaine Hall it sounds like she had been kept somewhere...

Could be a freelance plumber/ electrian etc... who travels up and down the country or who has a contract with the University's

Alternatively they could supply Flooring to retail outlets... Maybe they fitted retail shops etc....

Or possibly someone who had something to do with Plant hire.... or Transporting Plant Hire

Where all of these avenues checked out... Below I found a reference to an investigation in August 2010

Near M5.....

What about vehicle recovery service... as an occupation.. you wouldn't look out of place anywhere.....

In August 2010, a new investigation began, centred on an area in Worcestershire, near to Pershore and Drakes Broughton

A grass verge seems a common place to deposit of a body..... maybe Melaine hall was kept for along time ...






Offline Leonora

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #87 on: April 12, 2017, 09:13:04 PM »
...
If its possibly a serial killer... I think I read the other day that most serial Killers occupation in the Uk is Driver...
Joanna and Greg had moved into the flat only six weeks before her death. At least some of their furniture was new, as police questioned two IKEA delivery drivers, James Crozier and James Alexander, who were known to have made a delivery to Flat 1.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/312830/joanna-ikea-pair-in-police-quiz/

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2012/mar/16/sun-joanna-yeates
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 01:56:12 AM by John »

Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #88 on: May 18, 2017, 01:57:47 PM »
The more I look at this case The More I believe he is Innocent...

I have gone back to "The Judge Rinder" Program and have transcribed some of what has been said:
DCI Phil Jones say:

Quote
Whilst the Officers.. the.. were getting the details... and taking a statement from Vincent Tabak, they started to become suspicious and a little concerned about his behaviour, because he started to ask questions around the Forensic evidence and started to explain how he had walked dwon the foot path past the flat on the evening of Joanna's disappearance and how he slipped and he'd possibily touched the front door... And... And things like that.... So there was something just not quite right about him.... And the Officer erm..decided...erm.. following the policy we had taken with all our witness's... to ask him for a voluntary DNA swab, which he agreed to do.....

Now... I like that statement... Because i would like to see a "List of "ALL THE WITNESS"S IN THIS CASE...AND THE TIME AND DATE EACH ONE VOLUNTARY GAVE A DNA SAMPLE......
Judge Rinder then says;
Quote
  By now the Police had also retreieved the DNA from Joanna's body...

DCI Phil Jones goes on to say:
Quote
What we had one of her jeans (Throug) (That bit is Inaudible)of her knees off her chest area were was a mixed DNA profile... which had similar components, so it had some of Joanna Yeates DNA in it and another persons in there.... we needed to identify who it belonged to..

This next quote threw me...
Quote
It was around the 20th January, that erm... we positively identified there were components in the mixed DNA.. of Vincent Tabak

Ok... Is this "Components in the "Mixed DNA" sample retrieved from Joanna Yeates... Or as it reads to me now....

The sample that they took from Dr Vincent Tabak had mixed DNA in it....??

Thinking about that it is possible that within Dr Vincent Tabak's mouth, there could be "Mixed DNA" as I'm sure he and Tanja Morson were often intimate....

But because we are thinking Joanna Yeates and Mixed DNA of another Profile.... We never considered the fact that it is possible for a mouth swab to contain "Mixed DNA" in a sample... And that it is Dr Vincent Tabak's "Mouth swab" That DCI Phil Jones is refering too....

Edit:..... In this Judge Rinder Program... It is DCI Phil Jones who is explaining that the "Phone Call from Dr Vincent Tabak, is why he was questioned...  he says;

Quote
As a Result of that I sent a team over to the Netherlands to speak to Vincent Tabak Immediatley

Well if he wasn't the lead SIO in "The Murder Investigation" How did he manage to send out a team to the Netherlands ???









Offline [...]

Re: Who has Doubts as to Dr Vincent Tabak's Guilt ?
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2017, 12:56:49 PM »
Maybe it's Dr Vincent Tabak , that saw something that Evening/Morning... and that's why someone would want to keep him quite! (IMO)