Kate and Gerry and the jemmied shutter claim.

[Redblossom]

It was established fairly early on that night that the window/shutters showed no signs of forced entry....still relatives as late as 3am were being told the shutters had been forced. Now that is a fact contained in the files.

As for the word jemmied, Trish Cameron didnt make it up did she, if she wasnt able to even pronounce it and had to check her notes! That too is also a fact documented on video. Someone told her. And who was the first person Gerry called that night? Yes, his sister.

[icabodcrane]

As early as the 4th of May several friends and familiy members were speaking to the press about what had happened.   They  'knew'  because each of them had spoken to Gerry or Kate  the night before   (  within  the first few hours of Madeleine disappearing  ) 

These  people who had spoken personally to the McCanns reported events  uniformly,    every  one  of them saying the window shutters had been forced in some way.  Jemmied,  broken,  smashed,  were the some of the words  used to describe the  'break in' 

It seems silly to me to pretend that this information was not passed on by the McCanns

It may be that they were in such a state of panic they were exaggerating in order to get the urgency of the message across  ...  but to suggest that  they never said the shutters had been forced,  and that   all those friends and family members   made a collective 'assumption'  makes little sense

[Benice]

They're smart, they didn't say it directly but they instead got Philomena and Trish Cameron to tell the press about the jemmied shutters and door hanging on the hinges. IIRC, there is a video of Philomena talking about jemmied shutters.

What is smart about deliberately spreading something which can be so easily disproved?  That makes no sense.

The family related what K&G had told them about the shutters. - but used their own words having put their own interpretation on events -  because they weren't there to see with their own eyes what had happened.   That is quite normal.       People do not repeat parrot fashion the exact words of the person who is talking to them. - just the general gist as they understand it.    Remember, these conversatios were not cool and calm, they were frantic - with the family trying to take in what they were being told by a couple almost incoherant with fear and anxiety.

K&G were not stupid - if they had opened the shutters/window themselves as part of cunning plan and were going to claim they had been forced open -  then they would have made damn sure there were signs of 'forcing' on them.    They would have to be complete thickos not to realise that.

Kate found the windows open and her first thought was that someone had entered via that window and taken her child - and believing that neither the shutters nor the window could be opened from outside - she did what every other normal person would do in those circumstances -  and assumed they must have been forced open.

When they were told there was no sign of forced entry - they had to think again - which they did.

IMO









 

[Mr Gray]

Now why is it some people will not accept what the mccanns or their associates  have said about the shutters ?

try raeding the opening post...never mentioned the associates

[Redblossom]

try raeding the opening post...never mentioned the associates

yes, the OP says Gerry never uttered the word jemmied, your claim, so the onus is on you to back it up.

[AnneGuedes]

As early as the 4th of May several friends and familiy members were speaking to the press about what had happened.   They  'knew'  because each of them had spoken to Gerry or Kate  the night before   (  within  the first few hours of Madeleine disappearing  ) 

These  people who had spoken personally to the McCanns reported events  uniformly,    every  one  of them saying the window shutters had been forced in some way.  Jemmied,  broken,  smashed,  were the some of the words  used to describe the  'break in' 

It seems silly to me to pretend that this information was not passed on by the McCanns

It may be that they were in such a state of panic they were exaggerating in order to get the urgency of the message across  ...  but to suggest that  they never said the shutters had been forced,  and that   all those friends and family members   made a collective 'assumption'  makes little sense

The remarkable point is that they immediately built two different versions of the same (supposed) event. Obviously the intent was 1) to escape blame from the family but 2) not to fool the police, limiting the story to the uncorroborated open shutters/window.

[south of the river]

Maybe its me - but I just don't see the big deal with this .

Ok can all those disbelievers play along for a while - I know is hard

Gerry and did Kate did not do forensic examination of the window that night - Gerry is not a mastercraft joiner who could instantly tell how the window was opened

His assumption that was that window is open - it must have been accessed from the outside in some way, he repeats this to relatives that night in very emotional phone call - where your thoughts are everywhere -

In the next day it two the PJ in the calmness and doing their  job actually examine said window and come to conclusion that it wasn't forced - so must have been opened from the inside or opened without actually damaging anything

McCann's  are not really interested in this detail  - they are beyond distraught and not even thinking - they just want daughter back

By this time relatives are talking and suddenly we get the jemmied windows - which gets picked up by newspapers and then the forums get hold of it and suddenly we have a detailed conspiracy where the parents must have planned it. 

So Gerry and Kate in the big plan said I tell you what you leave the window open and I will tell Aunty  Phil that it was jemmied - that will throw everyone of track and we will be in the clear

It doesn't just make sense

[C.Edwards]

What is smart about deliberately spreading something which can be so easily disproved?  That makes no sense.

PR, Benice, PR.  The story is out. There's been a break in! A rumour can be half way around the world before the truth has even finished lacing its boots. They should use the McCann case to teach PR students.

[jassi]

Maybe its me - but I just don't see the big deal with this .

Ok can all those disbelievers play along for a while - I know is hard

Gerry and did Kate did not do forensic examination of the window that night - Gerry is not a mastercraft joiner who could instantly tell how the window was opened

His assumption that was that window is open - it must have been accessed from the outside in some way, he repeats this to relatives that night in very emotional phone call - where your thoughts are everywhere -

In the next day it two the PJ in the calmness and doing their  job actually examine said window and come to conclusion that it wasn't forced - so must have been opened from the inside or opened without actually damaging anything

McCann's  are not really interested in this detail  - they are beyond distraught and not even thinking - they just want daughter back

By this time relatives are talking and suddenly we get the jemmied windows - which gets picked up by newspapers and then the forums get hold of it and suddenly we have a detailed conspiracy where the parents must have planned it. 

So Gerry and Kate in the big plan said I tell you what you leave the window open and I will tell Aunty  Phil that it was jemmied - that will throw everyone of track and we will be in the clear

It doesn't just make sense

You certainly don't. It was obviously said, otherwise why would different members of both families trot out the same senarios ?

[AnneGuedes]

What is smart about deliberately spreading something which can be so easily disproved?  That makes no sense.

It did make sense : during months tabloids spread that myth !
Do you think the McCanns would have been considered victims if the media had told the truth? Little girl (3) left alone in a rented holiday flat : parents didn't close the door, she's missing.

[Redblossom]

Maybe its me - but I just don't see the big deal with this .



His assumption that was that window is open - it must have been accessed from the outside in some way

Why must it have been accessed from outside?

Eta, I think Annes answered that ^^^

[icabodcrane]

Maybe its me - but I just don't see the big deal with this .

Ok can all those disbelievers play along for a while - I know is hard

Gerry and did Kate did not do forensic examination of the window that night - Gerry is not a mastercraft joiner who could instantly tell how the window was opened

His assumption that was that window is open - it must have been accessed from the outside in some way, he repeats this to relatives that night in very emotional phone call - where your thoughts are everywhere -

In the next day it two the PJ in the calmness and doing their  job actually examine said window and come to conclusion that it wasn't forced - so must have been opened from the inside or opened without actually damaging anything

McCann's  are not really interested in this detail  - they are beyond distraught and not even thinking - they just want daughter back

By this time relatives are talking and suddenly we get the jemmied windows - which gets picked up by newspapers and then the forums get hold of it and suddenly we have a detailed conspiracy where the parents must have planned it. 

So Gerry and Kate in the big plan said I tell you what you leave the window open and I will tell Aunty  Phil that it was jemmied - that will throw everyone of track and we will be in the clear

It doesn't just make sense

I think that scenario makes sense

This thread, though,  insists that the McCanns never  said  the shutters had been forced

You and I agree that they almost certainly  did say it,  but that there is a possibility that they did so because  they  were  'assuming'  the shutters had been forced

[south of the river]

I have no real idea of the minutiae of conversations between them - I just try and put myself in the position of them coming back that night

If their assumption was the windows were forced - it doesn't make it right - it is what they thought - what there unbelieving and very shocked brain must have told them .

It doesn't mean that's what happened - that's why you have police who can look  at a situation without emotion and calmness - 

[Benice]

Maybe its me - but I just don't see the big deal with this .

Ok can all those disbelievers play along for a while - I know is hard

Gerry and did Kate did not do forensic examination of the window that night - Gerry is not a mastercraft joiner who could instantly tell how the window was opened

His assumption that was that window is open - it must have been accessed from the outside in some way, he repeats this to relatives that night in very emotional phone call - where your thoughts are everywhere -

In the next day it two the PJ in the calmness and doing their  job actually examine said window and come to conclusion that it wasn't forced - so must have been opened from the inside or opened without actually damaging anything

McCann's  are not really interested in this detail  - they are beyond distraught and not even thinking - they just want daughter back

By this time relatives are talking and suddenly we get the jemmied windows - which gets picked up by newspapers and then the forums get hold of it and suddenly we have a detailed conspiracy where the parents must have planned it. 

So Gerry and Kate in the big plan said I tell you what you leave the window open and I will tell Aunty  Phil that it was jemmied - that will throw everyone of track and we will be in the clear

It doesn't just make sense

Can you imagine the conversation about that part of the cunning plan.

GM - Kate you open the shutters and the window and we'll tell the police that an abductor must have forced/jemmied his way in.

KM.   But won't the police notice that they haven't been jemmied?

GM  - Noooo - they'll just take our word for it - especially if we tell all our relatives that's what happened as well.

KM  - OK dear I'll do that.

GM - Trust me I'm a doctor.

---------------------------------------------
Purlease  --- Give me a break.

As far as I am concerned this business about 'jemmied' or 'not jemmied' is mega nitpicking and hairsplitting.

The McCanns told the police and everyone else that night what they THOUGHT had happened - it later transpired they were wrong.   And thats it.
IMO

[AnneGuedes]

Benice, facts are stronger than derision.
Try and make up your mind that you can't know what they thought, think and will think.