Kate and Gerry and the jemmied shutter claim.

[Benice]

Benice, facts are stronger than derision.
Try and make up your mind that you can't know what they thought, think and will think.

Well if it was part of a staged plan, then I know they must have discussed it between themselves first.   What do you think they said about that part of the plan Anne?

[Mr Gray]

first thing I would like to say is that I did not start this thread.

[Mr Gray]

Whereas I do find Davel as annoying as a persistent wasp at a picnic, I do grudgingly admire his resolve in soldiering on in the face of adversity.  If he would stop the hectoring tone of posts and try being less provocatively contrary in the hope of provoking distracting arguments then he'd be quite bearable.  As it is, I think he's damn lucky to still be posting on this board as I'd have long lost patience with him. Credit to admin & the mods for persistently giving him a chance even thought he does appear to keep throwing it back in their faces.

As to this ridiculous attempt to wipe from the record that which has already been long accepted (namely that it's obvious due to the wording used and the timing of the press reports that the McCann family were independently told the same "jemmied/forced" story and simply regurgitated it - Trish Cameron even stumbling: "jammied... or whatever you call it" over the strange word she wasn't comfortable using. Absolutely no Chinese whispers at all, regardless of what davel claims), well it's scarcely worth engaging with.

Davel, you need to keep up to date, mate. This argument, even on the staunchest pro forums, has long moved on to "what they actually meant" as opposed to what they said, which is beyond doubt.  You're flogging a long-dead and buried horse here and there is no debate or argument to be had.

 Once again CE actually proves my point for me by his words highlighted in red....What they meant is fiction wheras what they said is fact.

CE is saying it doesn't matter what they said its what they meant. how does he know what they meant..opinion as fact.
It is important because many use the jemmied story to say that the McCanns have lied..not true...anyone who says the McCanns used the word jemmied is in fact telling lies

[Mr Gray]

As early as the 4th of May several friends and familiy members were speaking to the press about what had happened.   They  'knew'  because each of them had spoken to Gerry or Kate  the night before   (  within  the first few hours of Madeleine disappearing  ) 

These  people who had spoken personally to the McCanns reported events  uniformly,    every  one  of them saying the window shutters had been forced in some way.  Jemmied,  broken,  smashed,  were the some of the words  used to describe the  'break in' 

It seems silly to me to pretend that this information was not passed on by the McCanns

It may be that they were in such a state of panic they were exaggerating in order to get the urgency of the message across  ...  but to suggest that  they never said the shutters had been forced,  and that   all those friends and family members   made a collective 'assumption'  makes little sense

For heavens sake read the OP...the word is gemmied...and don't tell me it means the same thing as forced

[Admin]

first thing I would like to say is that I did not start this thread.

Your question on the myths thread... remember... the one you were complaining about being deleted earlier?

[icabodcrane]

 Once again CE actually proves my point for me by his words highlighted in red....What they meant is fiction wheras what they said is fact.

CE is saying it doesn't matter what they said its what they meant. how does he know what they meant..opinion as fact.
It is important because many use the jemmied story to say that the McCanns have lied..not true...anyone who says the McCanns used the word jemmied is in fact telling lies

What are you talking about  ?  ...  you have no idea  whether or not the McCanns used the word  'jemmied'  on the phone that night

As Red pointed out,  one of Gerry's sisters,   who he had phoned that night,    was unsure of the word  ( she'd never  heard it before, clearly  )     ....   she didn't know whether it was  the word  'jimmied'  or  'jemmied'   that her brother  had used

[Mr Gray]

Your question on the myths thread... remember... the one you were complaining about being deleted earlier?

 the point I am making is I did not start this thread. I made a post in response to another OP. I think its important for posters to understand that I did not start a new thread on this topic

[C.Edwards]

 Once again CE actually proves my point for me by his words highlighted in red....What they meant is fiction wheras what they said is fact.

CE is saying it doesn't matter what they said its what they meant. how does he know what they meant..opinion as fact.
It is important because many use the jemmied story to say that the McCanns have lied..not true...anyone who says the McCanns used the word jemmied is in fact telling lies

Man, if there was money to be won on davel bingo I'd be rich by now.  The point that everyone else got except you is that even the pro forums accept they were the originators of the "jemmied" & "forced" stuff but claim "that's not what they meant explicitly" as they were just assuming that's what happened.  You can see Benice doing it on this thread already.  I'm claiming nothing. But you already know that.

This is why I don't debate with you. You seem unable to grasp even the simplest concepts and deliberately misinterpret things that allow you to set up a strawman argument and knock it down. This is why you're seen as disruptive and yet you don't understand?

[Mr Gray]

What are you talking about  ?  ...  you have no idea  whether or not the McCanns used the word  'jemmied'  on the phone that night

As Red pointed out,  one of Gerry's sisters,   who he had phoned that night,    was unsure of the word  ( she'd never  heard it before, clearly  )     ....   she didn't know whether it was  the word  'jimmied'  or  'jemmied'   that her brother  had used

And neither does anyone else so it cant be stated as fact..its a subtle point and it seems you don't understand it

[Mr Gray]

Man, if there was money to be won on davel bingo I'd be rich by now.  The point that everyone else got except you is that even the pro forums accept they were the originators of the "jemmied" & "forced" stuff but claim "that's not what they meant explicitly" as they were just assuming that's what happened.  You can see Benice doing it on this thread already.  I'm claiming nothing. But you already know that.

This is why I don't debate with you. You seem unable to grasp even the simplest concepts and deliberately misinterpret things that allow you to set up a strawman argument and knock it down. This is why you're seen as disruptive and yet you don't understand?

 There is a concept called accuracy which is very important when accusing people of a serious crime. Accuracy is something you seem to have no interest in and this is why your conclusions are so way off...as a computer man I am sure you understand another concept...garbage in..garbage out

[C.Edwards]

And neither does anyone else so it cant be stated as fact..its a subtle point and it seems you don't understand it

No. You don't understand that trying to score points on what you think are details is not big or clever, it's just pedantic and irrelevant. You've already completely embarrassed yourself with the whole amnesty international thread and you're now doing it on here. Let me guess... "they didn't say 'gemmied', they said 'jemmied'" will be your next attempt at winning a non-existent argument?

[C.Edwards]

There is a concept called accuracy which is very important when accusing people of a serious crime. Accuracy is something you seem to have no interest in and this is why your conclusions are so way off...as a computer man I am sure you understand another concept...garbage in..garbage out

Ah. So accuracy and detail is important when it comes to the minutiae of what we say about the McCanns but when it comes to the accuracy and corroboration of their statements, it's just nit picking if we point out the discrepancies and inaccuracies?  Yeah, nice one davel! 

[Mr Gray]

No. You don't understand that trying to score points on what you think are details is not big or clever, it's just pedantic and irrelevant. You've already completely embarrassed yourself with the whole amnesty international thread and you're now doing it on here. Let me guess... "they didn't say 'gemmied', they said 'jemmied'" will be your next attempt at winning a non-existent argument?

 you mean the one where you admitted serendipity used the word removed and then he denied it. I was completely correct about the Amnesty thread

[Mr Gray]

Ah. So accuracy and detail is important when it comes to the minutiae of what we say about the McCanns but when it comes to the accuracy and corroboration of their statements, it's just nit picking if we point out the discrepancies and inaccuracies?  Yeah, nice one davel! 

it is when they have been translated several times..and have not been recorded..they may well be not very accurate..there you are the word crops up again,,GIGO

[icabodcrane]

posters are calling the McCanns liars re jemmied when you yourself have agreed they cant possibly know

You said  :

"Anyone who says the McCanns used the word jemmied, is, in fact  telling lies"

That statement is unsupported and  indefensible  ...  you do realise that, dont you  ?