UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: KayPage1990 on September 28, 2021, 01:09:54 PM
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Hey all,
I'm really sorry that I haven't posted in here for so long and to be honest, I'm not sure that I will following this post. Because last time I did, I found myself feeling overwhelmed with all the additional leads people were asking me to follow. It also made me feel a tad anxious about everything.
But, I also found this forum extremely helpful in the research of my podcast and so having seen some of the previous comments, etc. I thought I owed it to you all that I addressed them first hand.
Where I'm at with the podcast?
There are countless behind the scene reasons why I've stalled - again - on this podcast but much of it comes down to me. I started the podcast with motivation because I believed in his innocence but as you're all aware, I no longer feel way.
It's been a real challenge to get this podcast finished because I've been really conscious of making any mistakes with it and that fear has really hindered my progress.
I've felt overwhelmed and uncertain about it numerous times. But I no longer feel that as I've decided exactly how I now intend to forge forward.
For the sake of my mental health, I have to remove myself from the WHF debate, finishing the podcast in the best way that I can. Being as accurate as I can. But also appreciating that I have a finite amount of time.
I also work full-time and so I've had to prioritise which parts of the case matter the most. I'm not really that worried about who Jeremy slept with and why, unless in some way it's related. And even if it is, if I can't trace the person or engage in the debate, there's little point in my pursuing it.
So, I've chosen instead to focus on the accepted facts and the disputed evidence.
For that reason, I don't want to spend hours pouting over things that feel unnecessary. I'm going to focus on what I feel is important and get to business on those.
Inaccuracies made
I also think it's important to point out that inaccuracies shouldn't be mistaken for attempts at 're-writing history and it's still my intention to present an accurate and factual series. Any mistakes made have been just that.
I have made mistakes, I know that I have, and I kick myself every time I notice one. But the pause in content was because I was finalising everything and I think future episodes will be much more accurate.
I'm re-recording previous episodes because I know they can be done better.
The Brett Collins interview
I edited the Brett Collins interview because I had to. There was no choice but to edit it. And for various reasons which I can't and won't go into, I am not in a position to publish that in full.
And for that very same reason, the original, unedited interview will not be published or shared. Although it was my initial intention to do so, it no longer is.
I've also noticed some huge inconsistencies and errors in what Brett has said to me and what he's said since. I don't think Brett is lying, I just think he's a bit all over the place with his memory at times.
I'm re-scripting and editing the Brett interview because, again, it could be done better and there are certain changes I want to make.
The goal now
My goal now is to finish the podcast. To use as a vehicle for identifying the truth in this case as best we can.
The campaign team is no longer engaging with me and won't reply to my emails. I spent a good amount of time at Crime Con avoiding them, because as far as I'm aware it was a last-minute choice for them to go (they were donated tickets from someone who couldn't go).
As Carol Ann Lee said in her part of the documentary (she is now a dear friend to me, who doesn't deserve the rubbish she gets thrown at her) it's important that the correct narrative is told.
My intention now is to finish my podcast, accepting that I probably will still make some mistakes despite my months of research, and to put my involvement with this case behind me. It's important to me that I do finish the podcast because of the amount of effort I've put in, and because I think it's important to show the evidence.
Any of the additional documents I've found will be added to the website at a later date and while I don't have that much to add, I do have the wills if anyone is interested in seeing those.
All that said, I am honestly so exhausted with the Bamber case. The podcast is not what it was supposed to be when it was started and I am very, very keen to get it finished and put behind me.
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Hello Kay. I enjoyed your Brett Collins interview. You managed to pin him down and let him speak candidly when other "pro" journalists failed or never attempted to do so, and I was looking forward to your proposed other podcasts, particularly one involving Chris Bews, but wondered what had happened when it failed to materialise. Don't pay any attention to me, my dodgy hearing and initial complaints, but keep up the good work anyway.
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Ah thank you! Editing the Brett one because there's a few things I need to follow up.
The Bews one is on the horizon. It'll actually be two interviews as he gave me so much of his time.
The first is about being first on the scene and the second is about the 'second call log'.
He's a great guy, been extremely helpful and always the first to answer any and every question I have.
Extra note here:
- I too am a bit confused about the Anji | Virginia situation because while Brett said they pretended it was Anji he was having an affair with because V was getting married, I've not found anything to prove this. BUT I do know that Anji DID get married in 1985. That entire thing baffles me.
I have located both of them under their new names - but neither will speak to me. I have found and am in contact with a few other interesting people, so hopefully, I'll have that up soon.
I'm finished with the research now. Just pulling it all together.
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In my opinion there are people out there who know more about Jeremy Bamber's criminal activities than they have ever admitted to.
Look forward to the podcast 👍
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Extra note here:
- I too am a bit confused about the Anji | Virginia situation because while Brett said they pretended it was Anji he was having an affair with because V was getting married, I've not found anything to prove this. BUT I do know that Anji DID get married in 1985. That entire thing baffles me.
30th October 1985
‘Mr Brett Collins and Angela Greaves, the 29-year-old girlfriend of Jeremy Bamber, accused of killing five members of his own family. https://www.topfoto.co.uk/asset/1518735/
If Anji Greaves was due to get married or had just got married what was she doing in the papers being referred to as Bambers ‘girlfriend’?
6th November 1985
‘Angela Greaves, a former girlfriend of farmer Jeremy Bamber (24)
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-crime-murder-jeremy-bamber-maldon-1985-111059828.html
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In my opinion there are people out there who know more about Jeremy Bamber's criminal activities than they have ever admitted to.
Of course there are and Brett Collins and the Greave sisters are 3 of them
Bamber would have behaved the same way with them as he did with Julie Mugford
Bamber’s goal regarding the Greave sisters was to manipulate, dominate and control them
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This is the confusing thing right.
I know for a fact she was married in the summer of 1985 - I know this based on her marriage certificate and also, having found her, the name matches. So it's definitely her. Why she was calling herself his 'girlfriend' in the papers is beyond me.
I have found someone who might be able to clear this up for me - Michael Deckers - as he dated one of them first. I've contacted him to see if he can help.
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This is the confusing thing right.
I know for a fact she was married in the summer of 1985 - I know this based on her marriage certificate and also, having found her, the name matches. So it's definitely her. Why she was calling herself his 'girlfriend' in the papers is beyond me.
Isn’t it part proof to back up what Brett Collins said ?
Brett stated the following ⬇️
’The lady that came with me and we found the lawyer for Jeremy. What turned out was that her younger sister was having an affair at the same time with Jeremy and she’s the girl that was in London with us at his sisters flat when she’d died and been buried. She answered the phone one day and it was Julie ringing to talk to him and his mistress answered the phone and that’s what set the whole thing off
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No. Because he implied that Anji was pretending to be JB’s GF because she Virginia was getting married. She wasn’t. Anji was the one who was married. Virginia didn’t get married for years. Unless the marriage was called off. Meaning there was no point in Anji lying by the time the article was written.
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This is the confusing thing right.
I know for a fact she was married in the summer of 1985 - I know this based on her marriage certificate and also, having found her, the name matches. So it's definitely her. Why she was calling herself his 'girlfriend' in the papers is beyond me.
I have found someone who might be able to clear this up for me - Michael Deckers - as he dated one of them first. I've contacted him to see if he can help.
When in the summer? Between June and September?
Anji claimed Bamber called at ‘her flat in Kensington, West London two days after his parents were buried’
Was her newly wed husband okay with this? Where was he when Bamber turned up?
They were then apparently ‘sat on the sofa watching videos and he made a pass’
‘He said he really wanted to get married and..…’
The comments in bold are excerpts from Anji’s news article
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No. Because he implied that Anji was pretending to be JB’s GF because she Virginia was getting married. She wasn’t. Anji was the one who was married. Virginia didn’t get married for years. Unless the marriage was called off. Meaning there was no point in Anji lying by the time the article was written.
If she didn’t lie then did Virginia commit perjury?
Another excerpt from Anji’s newspaper story ⬇️
‘But Anji said Bamber’s lust for her also led to his downfall. For its roused jealous hatred in his scorned former girlfriend’
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Yup. I've managed to find a more detailed marriage certificate and she married in July 1985. So she was married at the time.
Let's say it is accurate and that both were with Jeremy.
Virginia is engaged. Anji is married.
Ok, that's that but why would Anji then 'pretend' it was her.
Why is it more important for one to take the fall over the other?
It's very, very strange.
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Yup. I've managed to find a more detailed marriage certificate and she married in July 1985. So she was married at the time.
And Bamber turned up at her flat the following month and they started an affair
Where was her husband? Working away?
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I don't know do I? But I know they were married as there's a registered, legal document.
It happens doesn't it? I'm sure it was conducted much in the way that any 'affair' is.
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I don't know do I? But I know they were married as there's a registered, legal document.
It happens doesn't it? I'm sure it was conducted much in the way that any 'affair' is.
Are ‘affairs’ usually this public ⬇️
30th October 1985
‘Mr Brett Collins and Angela Greaves, the 29-year-old girlfriend of Jeremy Bamber, accused of killing five members of his own family. https://www.topfoto.co.uk/asset/1518735/
3 months after Anji gets married she’s all over the news as Bamber’s girlfriend ?
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This is why I found it so difficult last time.
I know Anji was married. Absolutely 100% she was married. It's a cast-iron fact. There's little more to say there. I don't understand what the hell the sisters were up to or why Anji did what she did afterwards.
The one fact I do know is that she was married. I've contacted her via her married name (the one registered on the certificate of 1985) and it definitely her.
There is not one doubt that she was married at the time of the murders and she was married when she spoke to the papers. Why that all happened despite this fact is not in my understanding.
But I know she was married. As I said, I've seen the document and confirmed this.
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Ok, that's that but why would Anji then 'pretend' it was her.
How much was she paid for her story?
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This is why I found it so difficult last time.
I know Anji was married. Absolutely 100% she was married. It's a cast-iron fact. There's little more to say there. I don't understand what the hell the sisters were up to or why Anji did what she did afterwards.
The one fact I do know is that she was married. I've contacted her via her married name (the one registered on the certificate of 1985) and it definitely her.
There is not one doubt that she was married at the time of the murders and she was married when she spoke to the papers. Why that all happened despite this fact is not in my understanding.
But I know she was married. As I said, I've seen the document and confirmed this.
I believe you
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I don't know. That's none of my business.
I didn't feel the need to ask Brett as I doubt he'd have known anyway. Just like I didn't ask him how much he was paid by Mindhouse.
Sorry, I just find that I'm being asked questions that I can't possibly know the answer too. And to be honest nor do I want to.
I've had focus on the aspects of this case that I believe to be important and this isn't one for me. I'm more interested in the actual case itself.
If others want to pursue this then of course that's up to them. But I've taken this particular aspect as far as I can.
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There is not one doubt that she was married at the time of the murders and she was married when she spoke to the papers. Why that all happened despite this fact is not in my understanding.
But I know she was married. As I said, I've seen the document and confirmed this.
Did Brett Collins know Anji was married?
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I don't know. That's none of my business.
You claimed it was ‘substantial’ ?
On page 8 of the transcript it states Brett Collins said,
‘The lady that I found the lawyer with, I think the newspapers paid her a lot of money..’
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0
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I've had focus on the aspects of this case that I believe to be important and this isn't one for me. I'm more interested in the actual case itself.
Doesn’t the ‘actual case itself’ hinge on all what went on before ?
Isn’t it important to establish if defence witnesses perjured themselves or perverted the course of justice ?
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I don't know.
Because Brett told me it was a 'lot' of money. But I don't know how much and again, not my business to ask.
I got distracted by this whole debacle today and did think it was worth considering. But I can't verify it. They won't talk to me and so it feels like a waste of my time in the goals of my podcast. It could be of importance, but I've exhausted it and it's now not worth the time I've put into it.
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Honestly, this is why i've been so reluctant to post in here. I'm really interested in discussing this further.
Much like I don't care if Bamber had an affair with CM. To me, it doesn't affect the overall case.
I'm going to leave this now and go back to working on my podcast.
I hope you enjoy the rest of the series.
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3 months after Anji gets married she’s all over the news as Bamber’s girlfriend ?
And a year later Anji’s selling her story to the media ?
The 29th October 1986 is when the story ran - on the front page of the Sun - with the headline
‘I loved Bambi Beast’
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Honestly, this is why i've been so reluctant to post in here. I'm really interested in discussing this further.
Much like I don't care if Bamber had an affair with CM. To me, it doesn't affect the overall case.
I'm going to leave this now and go back to working on my podcast.
I hope you enjoy the rest of the series.
Who’s CM ?
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Yup. I've managed to find a more detailed marriage certificate and she married in July 1985. So she was married at the time.
Let's say it is accurate and that both were with Jeremy.
Virginia is engaged. Anji is married.
Ok, that's that but why would Anji then 'pretend' it was her.
Why is it more important for one to take the fall over the other?
It's very, very strange.
Do you think they were devastated after realising Bamber was cheating on them both - presuming he was ?
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I don't know.
Because Brett told me it was a 'lot' of money. But I don't know how much and again, not my business to ask.
I got distracted by this whole debacle today and did think it was worth considering. But I can't verify it. They won't talk to me and so it feels like a waste of my time in the goals of my podcast. It could be of importance, but I've exhausted it and it's now not worth the time I've put into it.
Will you be defending Julie Mugford in your podcasts?
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Sorry, I just find that I'm being asked questions that I can't possibly know the answer too. And to be honest nor do I want to.
Do you think Anji and Virginia realised at some point they were duped by Bamber and that he was guilty all along ?
Could that be a reason why they didn’t want to speak to you?
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Honestly, this is why i've been so reluctant to post in here. I'm really interested in discussing this further.
Much like I don't care if Bamber had an affair with CM. To me, it doesn't affect the overall case.
I'm going to leave this now and go back to working on my podcast.
I hope you enjoy the rest of the series.
Who’s CM ?
Were you referring to Christine Bacon who was arrested on the 8th September 1985 along with Brett Collins and Matthew McDonald?
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No. Because he implied that Anji was pretending to be JB’s GF because she Virginia was getting married. She wasn’t. Anji was the one who was married. Virginia didn’t get married for years. Unless the marriage was called off. Meaning there was no point in Anji lying by the time the article was written.
Could Virginia’s wedding have been called off - if she was getting married - and she was attempting to patch things up and Anji’s story was to help her sister
Or did Bamber put Anji up to it?
The following is an excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations and he seems to have taken Anji’s words from the Sun news story
‘I was giving him the love in bed she should have been giving him,’she told the paper. ‘She was just giving him mouth.’
Bamber went all out to smear Julie and used people to do his dirty work for him - people who had never met her
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Could Virginia’s wedding have been called off - if she was getting married - and she was attempting to patch things up and Anji’s story was to help her sister
Or did Bamber put Anji up to it?
The following is an excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations and he seems to have taken Anji’s words from the Sun news story
‘I was giving him the love in bed she should have been giving him,’she told the paper. ‘She was just giving him mouth.’
Bamber went all out to smear Julie and used people to do his dirty work for him - people who had never met her
In reality - Virginia or Anji or both were sleeping with an executioner, child killer and sexual predator
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Could Virginia’s wedding have been called off - if she was getting married - and she was attempting to patch things up and Anji’s story was to help her sister
Or did Bamber put Anji up to it?
The following is an excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations and he seems to have taken Anji’s words from the Sun news story
‘I was giving him the love in bed she should have been giving him,’she told the paper. ‘She was just giving him mouth.’
Bamber went all out to smear Julie and used people to do his dirty work for him - people who had never met her
Excerpts from Roger Wilkes book ‘Blood Relations’
’A 24-year-old woman named Sabina Butt struck up a relationship with Jeremy Bamber by offering to become his pen friend. She visited him at Wormwood Scrubs in the early months of his sentence, representing herself to tabloid journalists as the heiress of a multi-million-pound manufacturing empire. ‘I can’t believe he’s the evil monster he’s made out to be,’ said Miss Butt. ‘He told me he’s innocent and I believe him.’ Accordingly, the young woman announced she was pledging the family fortune to finance an appeal. Not long after this, a reporter traced Sabina Butt to the humble council house where she lived. The affair shrivelled on the spot.
Who’s idea was it to tell the media Sabina was ‘the heiress of a multi-million-pound manufacturing empire’ - Sabina’s or Bambers?
Two years into his sentence, Bamber was reported to be having ‘steamy jail sex sessions’ with a busty 23-year-old blonde called Jayne Beardsley. These, too, ceased when details (including an extract of one of Bamber’s letters to ‘Dearest Jayne’) were published across two pages of a Sunday newspaper.
Why did journalists seem so interested in telling the stories of Anji, Sabina, Jayne and co ?
A third such liaison met a similar fate. In 1991 a pretty 18-year-old retail trainee from Yorkshire, Nikky O’Hare, became interested in Bamber’s case and began writing to him. She visited him frequently in prison, and became involved in his efforts to have his case referred to the appeal court. In December 1992, her story appeared in a rival Sunday paper. The young woman claimed Bamber had made her pregnant during ‘steamy four-times-a-week sex sessions behind bars’ but that she had lost the child through a miscarriage. These ‘sessions’ had taken place during visiting hours. Miss O’Hare had been given accreditation to visit Bamber as a member of his defence team, and this entitled the couple to meet in a private interview room. ‘It was just a ruse for us to have sex,’ Bamber was reported as saying. The young woman in question was said to be considering a career in the police force or prison service.
How and why were HM prison service allowing a mass murderer, child killer and sexual predator time alone with a young women ?
All this titillation obscured Jeremy Bamber’s real concerns. A few weeks after his trial, he announced through his lawyers that he planned to launch an appeal against his convictions for murder. He had protested his innocence from the outset, and he was determined that one day – sooner rather than later – he would prove his innocence, and walk out into the waiting world a free man.[/i]
Did all this titillation’ also obscure the authors ‘concerns’ ?
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This is why I found it so difficult last time.
I know Anji was married. Absolutely 100% she was married. It's a cast-iron fact. There's little more to say there. I don't understand what the hell the sisters were up to or why Anji did what she did afterwards.
What the sisters ‘were up to’ or what Bamber was up to?
Roger Wilkes also stated in his book ‘Blood Relations’
‘Other women were quick to take the place of Anji Greaves. Some simply seemed to crave the notoriety of knowing Jeremy. Some seemed to be obsessively in love with him. All were victims of the criminal love syndrome. Psychologists have characterized them as women who need to feel in control of a man. ‘They feel they can rehabilitate underdogs and losers,’ said sociologist Dr Rosalind Miles in a study of women in love with lifers published in 1992. ‘This contrasts with any relationship with a successful man who they feel doesn’t really need them.’ A man sentenced to life imprisonment can’t let a woman down. He can’t move away.
If Anji Greaves was married when she was helping Bamber - alongside Brett Collins - to find a lawyer to represent him was she also a ‘victim of the criminal love syndrome’ ?
or was she another victim of Bamber’s - similar to Julie Mugford?
And if Anji was in love with Bamber how did she feel about him when he became involved with Sabina, seemingly a few months after he was convicted and she sold her story?
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Hey all,
I'm really sorry that I haven't posted in here for so long and to be honest, I'm not sure that I will following this post. Because last time I did, I found myself feeling overwhelmed with all the additional leads people were asking me to follow. It also made me feel a tad anxious about everything.
But, I also found this forum extremely helpful in the research of my podcast and so having seen some of the previous comments, etc. I thought I owed it to you all that I addressed them first hand.
Where I'm at with the podcast?
There are countless behind the scene reasons why I've stalled - again - on this podcast but much of it comes down to me. I started the podcast with motivation because I believed in his innocence but as you're all aware, I no longer feel way.
It's been a real challenge to get this podcast finished because I've been really conscious of making any mistakes with it and that fear has really hindered my progress.
I've felt overwhelmed and uncertain about it numerous times. But I no longer feel that as I've decided exactly how I now intend to forge forward.
For the sake of my mental health, I have to remove myself from the WHF debate, finishing the podcast in the best way that I can. Being as accurate as I can. But also appreciating that I have a finite amount of time.
I also work full-time and so I've had to prioritise which parts of the case matter the most. I'm not really that worried about who Jeremy slept with and why, unless in some way it's related. And even if it is, if I can't trace the person or engage in the debate, there's little point in my pursuing it.
So, I've chosen instead to focus on the accepted facts and the disputed evidence.
For that reason, I don't want to spend hours pouting over things that feel unnecessary. I'm going to focus on what I feel is important and get to business on those.
Inaccuracies made
I also think it's important to point out that inaccuracies shouldn't be mistaken for attempts at 're-writing history and it's still my intention to present an accurate and factual series. Any mistakes made have been just that.
I have made mistakes, I know that I have, and I kick myself every time I notice one. But the pause in content was because I was finalising everything and I think future episodes will be much more accurate.
I'm re-recording previous episodes because I know they can be done better.
What if the ‘accepted facts’ are wrong?
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The goal now
My goal now is to finish the podcast. To use as a vehicle for identifying the truth in this case as best we can.
The campaign team is no longer engaging with me and won't reply to my emails. I spent a good amount of time at Crime Con avoiding them, because as far as I'm aware it was a last-minute choice for them to go (they were donated tickets from someone who couldn't go).
As Carol Ann Lee said in her part of the documentary (she is now a dear friend to me, who doesn't deserve the rubbish she gets thrown at her) it's important that the correct narrative is told.
My intention now is to finish my podcast, accepting that I probably will still make some mistakes despite my months of research, and to put my involvement with this case behind me. It's important to me that I do finish the podcast because of the amount of effort I've put in, and because I think it's important to show the evidence.
Any of the additional documents I've found will be added to the website at a later date and while I don't have that much to add, I do have the wills if anyone is interested in seeing those.
All that said, I am honestly so exhausted with the Bamber case. The podcast is not what it was supposed to be when it was started and I am very, very keen to get it finished and put behind me.
I didn’t agree with Carol Ann Lee here
https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/ at around 28.00 Julie ‘knew’ that the murders he’d been talking about had happened that night
Hopefully the forthcoming doc will include first hand experiences of individuals who have walked in the similar shoes to people like Julie Mugford - who have first hand knowledge of the cognitive dissonance and denials experienced during and after a relationship with a sadistic psychopath like Bamber
For Carol Ann Lee to say Julie Mugford ‘knew’ Bamber had committed the murders was wrong and unfair
Carol Ann Lee talks about the ‘grey area’ regarding the phone but doesn’t appear to have considered or understood the ‘grey areas’ when it comes to being in a relationship with a psychopathic killer
For context from around 26:00 ⬇️
https://theglobalherald.com/entertainment/television-entertainment/ep-3-the-evidence-the-murders-at-white-house-farm-the-podcast-hbo-max/
Julie Mugford would NOT have known her boyfriend had just murdered 5 members of his family!
And for me Carol Ann Lee was wrong to ever suggest this publicly like she did
It’s not as black and white as, ‘so she knew the murders that he’d been talking about had happened that night’
Carol Ann Lee even appeared to give a subtle emphasis on the word ‘knew’ - which for me I found telling
Carol Ann Lee stated during the 3rd episode of the Mindhouse TV production,
‘When Julie Mugford went to the police she confessed to them that five months before the murders she and Jeremy had burgled his parents caravan site business - the night that they staged the break in Jeremy had actually persuaded his father not to bank the cash that was in the safe. They stole £980 that night which was a substantial amount of money at that time especially and they tried to make it look like an outside job’
Barbara Wilson then stated,
‘He heard about the robbery village gossip really. Mr Bamber said it was an outside job and a couple of days later he said erm we know who who did it and I actually did say was it someone quite near he said yes I’m afraid it was Jeremy but we don’t want other people to know
Carol Ann Lee then states,
‘Although it wasn’t on the level of the murders by any stretch of the imagination it does show certain traits in Jeremy’s personality erm it was a crime about money it was a crime committed against his parents he’d involved Julie beforehand during and afterwards and it also showed that he was capable of staging a crime scene
I don’t agree with Carol Ann Lee’s views on Julies involvement with the break in at the caravan site
And as Mick Ainsley stated in a following clip - Julie was sat outside in the car so she could hardly be staging anything
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As Carol Ann Lee said in her part of the documentary (she is now a dear friend to me, who doesn't deserve the rubbish she gets thrown at her) it's important that the correct narrative is told.
Carol Ann Lee appeared to me to also be re-writing history
Her narrative regarding the caravan break in was incorrect
What was Julies ‘intention’ whilst she was sat outside in the car ?
Mick Ainsley stated in the 3rd episode of the Mindhouse docuseries
‘The only evidence of the burglary was from Julie
And Barbara Wilson ⬇️
Barbara Wilson then stated,
‘He heard about the robbery village gossip really. Mr Bamber said it was an outside job and a couple of days later he said erm we know who who did it and I actually did say was it someone quite near he said yes I’m afraid it was Jeremy but we don’t want other people to know
Mick Ainsley goes on,
‘she was actually waiting outside while he burgled the premises. She also disclosed his first plan to kill his family
Charles Marsden also gave the police subtle clues which Bamber had ‘disclosed’ to him in December 1984
From Roger Wilkes/Blood Relations
In December 1984, Jeremy had announced that his entire family were getting together to celebrate Christimas. This was unusual. During a drinking session at a wine bar in Maldon, Jeremy had confided to Charles Marsden that if the farmhouse were to burn down over Christmas, everything would be his. 'I thought at the time that this was a strange thing to say,' Marsden reported, 'but didn't particularly take any notice.'
Mick Ainsley goes on,
‘Get the family together in the farmhouse sedate them all then set fire to the farmhouse and erm cause them all to die in the fire
He asked her to obtain erm sedatives from her doctor using the excuse that erm she has that she was having trouble sleeping because of the err university exams and she did in fact get some pills from the doctor and she did them to him
Another false narrative *&^^&
The Facts ⬇️ from Julie Mugford’s police witness statements
Excerpts from Julie Mugford’s witness statement dated 8/9th September 1985
Sheet 5
‘I remember that he said that he would use his mother’s sleeping pills to put on the drinks as she was taking them at the time.
Sheet 6
‘During the period of my teaching practice I went to my Doctor who is a Doctor REEVE of New Cross, London. He is the doctor for the college. I went there because I was having a rough time on my teething practice and could not sleep properly. The Doctor asked me if I wanted something to calm me down and he prescribed me some mild tranquillisers. I later took one tablet but didn’t take anymore. The weekend after I got the tablets I went down to Goldhanger and told Jeremy about going to the doctor and I showed him the tablets. I told him I was annoyed with the Doctor because the doctor hadn’t discussed the problem with me but just prescribed tablets. I showed him the tablets and told him they were big and fat and hard to swallow. Nothing more was said about them and I put the bottle on the microwave in the kitchen.
A few days later Jeremy phoned me at my home and told me that he was going to take some of the pills I had bought him. For some reason or another he had it in his mind that I had bought the pills especially for him so he could
Sheet 7
‘use them on his parents. This is not true and I had no idea why he should think this. He told me that he was going to take some of the pills to see what effect they had on him and if they tasted in a drink. Although you might find it hard to believe I honestly thought he was living a charade and I didn’t want to believe what he was saying as I didn’t think he would carry his threats out. A few days later I believe it was at the weekend when I went to Goldhanger he told me the pills were useless and didn’t have the desired effect. I told Jeremy that I didn’t like him taking about stupid things and I suppose for about 6 weeks up to late November 1984 he did not mention about killing his family. ’
Link to Julie Mugford’s police witness statement (8th/9th September 1985) ➡️ http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=284.msg4962#msg4962
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Mick Ainsley goes on,
‘Get the family together in the farmhouse sedate them all
Did Bamber sedate the girl (Sarah) from the Chequers public house in Colchester ?
And did the police fail to properly investigate her claims ?
Who took her witness statement and what was done with her evidence?
Bamber told Julie Mugford in response to Sarah’s allegations
“If I see her I will go for her!”
According to Carol Ann Lee excerpts from Sarah’s police witness statement read,
‘Shocked’
‘Angry’
Abused’
‘on top of me having intercourse’
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The Brett Collins interview
I edited the Brett Collins interview because I had to. There was no choice but to edit it. And for various reasons which I can't and won't go into, I am not in a position to publish that in full.
And for that very same reason, the original, unedited interview will not be published or shared. Although it was my initial intention to do so, it no longer is.
I've also noticed some huge inconsistencies and errors in what Brett has said to me and what he's said since. I don't think Brett is lying, I just think he's a bit all over the place with his memory at times.
Btw Brett Collins on his ‘memory’ ⬇️
‘I've still got a very clear memory of everything that happened and I'm now sure he staged it all on the day of the murders’ (2020)
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer
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Btw Brett Collins on his ‘memory’ ⬇️
‘I've still got a very clear memory of everything that happened and I'm now sure he staged it all on the day of the murders’ (2020)
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer
Brett Collins
‘They split us up and luckily I had my Kiwi passport stamped for Greece. If I hadn't had that, I would have been dragged into it. They could have made some sort of bulls... and said we were in cahoots’
I suspect they were in ‘cahoots’ in relation to, for eg, the selling of the nude photos of Sheila
But Brett Collins doesn’t appear to want to address this after all these years
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The Brett Collins interview
I edited the Brett Collins interview because I had to. There was no choice but to edit it. And for various reasons which I can't and won't go into, I am not in a position to publish that in full.
And for that very same reason, the original, unedited interview will not be published or shared. Although it was my initial intention to do so, it no longer is.
I've also noticed some huge inconsistencies and errors in what Brett has said to me and what he's said since. I don't think Brett is lying, I just think he's a bit all over the place with his memory at times.
I'm re-scripting and editing the Brett interview because, again, it could be done better and there are certain changes I want to make.
Hi Kay
At around 24:25 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g&feature=youtu.be
You stated,
‘For me one of the main reasons I wanted to speak with Brett is because of the time he spent with Jeremy Bamber in the weeks and months following the murders because he’s the greatest source of untapped information on exactly how Jeremy Bamber was behaving and naturally this is one part of the interview where he had a lot to say..’
What about how Bamber was behaving prior to the murders ?
Apart from the nightclubs, cocaine and his ‘secret life’ after work - what did Brett Collins have to say about what they got up to before he flew to Greece and why did he suddenly cut his time in England with Bamber short and fly over to Greece?
Also did he mention meeting up with the Greave sisters before flying over to Greece?
He seemed quite friendly and comfortable in the photographs of him and Angela Greaves - was this because he already knew her?
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The goal now
My goal now is to finish the podcast. To use as a vehicle for identifying the truth in this case as best we can.
Also Kay - Brett Collins mentioned he left some of his clothes behind in Bamber’s spare bedroom
Did Brett confirm they were all still there when he returned back from Greece and had Bamber ever borrowed any of his clothes in all the time they knew one another?
And was this something the police considered during their investigations?
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I'm re-recording previous episodes because I know they can be done better.
Brett Collins wasn’t always clear when he was referring to his time spent with Bamber or Julie for example
It was sometimes difficult to tell whether he was referring to events prior to or following the murders
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g&feature=youtu.be
[/color]
Also can you confirm whether or not it was you who spoke to Brett Collins or if it was someone else?
There’s a short clip during the podcast where a female appears to be talking to Brett but their accent doesn’t sound Welsh?
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I also think it's important to point out that inaccuracies shouldn't be mistaken for attempts at 're-writing history and it's still my intention to present an accurate and factual series. Any mistakes made have been just that.
At the beginning of the podcast you say Brett Collins arranged Bamber’s legal team - he also states this
‘I got a lawyer to represent Jeremy at his court case and at that stage I believed in him.’[/color
But it sounds like it was actually Angela Greaves who may have done this and Brett Collins went along with her
The CT have said during one of their recent podcasts that Sir David Napley was apparently Anji Greaves godfather
The CT have also seemingly tried to reinforce the proposition that Virginia Greaves was Bamber’s girlfriend at the time but Brett Collins appears to have suggested Bamber was having ‘affairs’ with both of them
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Hello Kay. I enjoyed your Brett Collins interview. You managed to pin him down and let him speak candidly when other "pro" journalists failed or never attempted to do so,
I agree with this and hope Kay doesn’t remove or edit her original version of the interview with Brett Collins as he made a number of interesting disclosures
For example,
At around 16:22 Brett states,
‘I think something went wrong’
What exactly did he mean by this?
Also just after this when Brett is referring to Julie he states,
‘Erm way before I ever met his girlfriend - his girlfriend and he weren’t what you’d call monogamous friendship he had several girls at the same time that all thought that they err were his girlfriend
The above sounds like Brett Collins is referring to a time prior to the murders because he also stated he didn’t arrive back to the UK until around two days before the funeral and he said at this time it was just Bamber and Julie
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Brett Collins also mentions June Bamber donating £25k each year to the church - when and how was it he learned about this?
He also gave the impression he’d been rummaging through Sheila’s clothing - he said something like her clothes weren’t what you’d expect a model to wear
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Also worth noting from Brett Collins interview with Kay Page is Bamber and Brett both lied to police about their relationship
On the CT website it states,
‘Brett told police in a statement that although he was homosexual he had never had a sexual relationship with Jeremy, while Jeremy himself denied anything other than a close, affectionate friendship with Collins.
But Brett has now stated (2021) ⬇️
Brett Collins to Kay Page (2021)
‘I first met him in New Zealand. I was renting a flat below my house to an air steward who (something) in New Zealand and they both met in Hong Kong.
Jeremy was coming to New Zealand with a diving course and they seemed to get on over a few days. So he invited Jeremy to stay in the flat, which I owned because he was doing international flights which meant he was going to be away for a few weeks. So I met Jeremy when he arrived in Auckland and I let him stay in my flat for about a month.
‘We did get on very well.. Jeremy actually bisexual and he could swing both ways depending on what mood he was in.
Originally there was more to our friendship when I first met him because I was bisexual also
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz3kitv4d4xsh5i/Brett%20interview.pdf?dl=0
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Also worth noting from Brett Collins interview with Kay Page is Bamber and Brett both lied to police about their relationship
On the CT website it states,
‘Brett told police in a statement that although he was homosexual he had never had a sexual relationship with Jeremy, while Jeremy himself denied anything other than a close, affectionate friendship with Collins.
But Brett has now stated (2021) ⬇️
This excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations from Andy Bishop on Bamber is also interesting
‘The next morning was Saturday. Jeremy and his friends had planned a weekend at the seaside, but his first concern was to buy a set of national newspapers to see how the funerals had been reported. He spread them out on a table and gazed approvingly. Jeremy remarked to Andy Bishop that he was glad that both Julie and Brett were anxious to establish a long-term relationship with him, and pleased that he was at the centre of a ‘tug-of-love’ tangle.
Bamber was ‘triangulating his harem’
‘…5 Roles You Play In A Narcissist’s ‘Harem’ Or Love Cult
‘Narcissists are fickle creatures; they love shiny objects and they love to replace them just as swiftly as they’ve obtained them. They pit people against one another, they manufacture love triangles to make people jealous and to cause people to compete for the narcissist’s attention and approval. They become easily distracted by new victims who can heighten their status, reputation and wealth.
In a narcissist’s eyes, all victims are replaceable and interchangeable, depending on what they can do for the narcissist. All victims are in a never-ending competition to prove their worth and value to the narcissist
The “love cults” that narcissists build to stroke their egos aren’t actually exclusive to romantic relationships. They can exist in families, friendship circles, the workplace and various organizational hierarchies.
https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2018/06/the-dollhouse-5-roles-you-play-in-a-narcissists-harem-or-love-cult/
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This excerpt from Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations from Andy Bishop on Bamber is also interesting
‘The next morning was Saturday. Jeremy and his friends had planned a weekend at the seaside, but his first concern was to buy a set of national newspapers to see how the funerals had been reported. He spread them out on a table and gazed approvingly. Jeremy remarked to Andy Bishop that he was glad that both Julie and Brett were anxious to establish a long-term relationship with him, and pleased that he was at the centre of a ‘tug-of-love’ tangle.
Bamber was ‘triangulating his harem’
‘…5 Roles You Play In A Narcissist’s ‘Harem’ Or Love Cult
‘Narcissists are fickle creatures; they love shiny objects and they love to replace them just as swiftly as they’ve obtained them. They pit people against one another, they manufacture love triangles to make people jealous and to cause people to compete for the narcissist’s attention and approval. They become easily distracted by new victims who can heighten their status, reputation and wealth.
In a narcissist’s eyes, all victims are replaceable and interchangeable, depending on what they can do for the narcissist. All victims are in a never-ending competition to prove their worth and value to the narcissist
The “love cults” that narcissists build to stroke their egos aren’t actually exclusive to romantic relationships. They can exist in families, friendship circles, the workplace and various organizational hierarchies.
https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2018/06/the-dollhouse-5-roles-you-play-in-a-narcissists-harem-or-love-cult/
Brett Collins appears to have been one of Bamber’s ‘ride or die enablers’ and seemingly ‘right hand man’
The ride-or-die enablers.
‘This role is assigned to the most devoted of the narcissist’s harem – the ones who will “ride or die” for the narcissist. Enablers are used to protect the narcissist from accountability and to defend the narcissist’s excessive sense of entitlement to whatever they want regardless of who they harm. They may be told to lie for the narcissist, to shut down the complaints of anyone who dares to question the narcissist, and to punish and scapegoat those who do so accordingly.
They can also be employed as “flying monkeys,” those who are used to bully, taunt and harass any threatening targets that may be in the narcissist’s way. They support the narcissist in their various schemes regardless of how immoral or unjust they might be. A ride or die enabler could come in the form of a spouse, a parent, a sibling, colleagues, friends or even an acquaintance turned devout follower – you name it.
The right-hand man or woman.
’This is the narcissist’s partner in crime, usually someone who has sociopathic traits of their own. Unlike the other roles, this one is often fixed and reserved for those who are very much aligned with the narcissist’s own values; if you are the victim of a narcissist, you are unlikely to fill this role at all. This go-to person provides usefulness to the narcissist in a way that cannot be easily replaced because they share a similar unempathic, ruthless and exploitative nature which can serve the narcissist well in their agendas.
As a result, they tend to be a prized and long-standing member of a narcissist’s harem. Whatever role the right-hand man or woman plays in the narcissist’s life, they are usually the narcissist’s “best friend,” confidante and fellow con artist. They co-conspire with the narcissist to hunt new prey. However, just like any victim, they too can eventually be replaced should someone shinier (and perhaps more sociopathic) come along.
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At the beginning of the podcast you say Brett Collins arranged Bamber’s legal team - he also states this
But it sounds like it was actually Angela Greaves who may have done this and Brett Collins went along with her
The CT have said during one of their recent podcasts that Sir David Napley was apparently Anji Greaves godfather
The CT have also seemingly tried to reinforce the proposition that Virginia Greaves was Bamber’s girlfriend at the time but Brett Collins appears to have suggested Bamber was having ‘affairs’ with both of them
The CT have claimed in one of their podcasts they’ve spoken to someone who became ‘aquainted’ with Julie at Goldsmiths collage 🙄
This person has commented on Julie apparently having ‘lots of teddies’ in her room 🙄
(Around 6:20 here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KtWbg7moc_4) 🙄
Would be interested to hear their thoughts on Angela Greaves ‘lots of teddies’ http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11197.msg572685#msg572685
or maybe the person has confused the two ?
Also of note is the narrator of the podcast doesn’t appear to have heard Julie speak 🙄
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KtWbg7moc_4) 🙄
Also of note is the narrator of the podcast doesn’t appear to have heard Julie speak 🙄
I thought Yvonne Hartley sounded like a female version of Mr Tumble aka Justin Fletcher at the beginning of this podcast https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MHz4F3WIBK8
And Philip Walker claiming to read Julies mind… 🙄
The same Philip Walker who during his chat with #daddygate Shaun Attwood (https://www.youtube.com/hashtag/daddygate)
let slip they appear to have finally figured out about the ‘aga burns’ http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=345.msg27058#msg27058
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Of course there are and Brett Collins and the Greave sisters are 3 of them
According to Yvonne Hartley here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WbYZ4r9WalQ
At around 5:10 she claims in 2002 Julie Mugford also thought Brett Collins might be involved
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According to Yvonne Hartley here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WbYZ4r9WalQ
At around 5:10 she claims in 2002 Julie Mugford also thought Brett Collins might be involved
During the above podcast Yvonne asks why Julie didn’t immediately call the police after receiving Bamber’s phone call to say ‘tonight’s the night’
Julie’s landline was incoming calls only - I’d have expected Yvonne to be aware of this
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According to Yvonne Hartley here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WbYZ4r9WalQ
At around 5:10 she claims in 2002 Julie Mugford also thought Brett Collins might be involved
Is Susan Battersby’s 7th May 2002 witness statement available?
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Is Susan Battersby’s 7th May 2002 witness statement available?
Didn't know she made one in 2002! If so, maybe in the bowels of the Bluenatic Asylum where QTips is getting them all hot and bothered.
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Didn't know she made one in 2002! If so, maybe in the bowels of the Bluenatic Asylum where QTips is getting them all hot and bothered.
I didn’t know in 2002 (According to Yvonne Hartley ⬇️) Julie Mugford had suggested Brett Collins may have been involved - presumably in the planning phases of the murders
According to Yvonne Hartley here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WbYZ4r9WalQ
At around 5:10 she claims in 2002 Julie Mugford also thought Brett Collins might be involved
I re read Julie’s 2002 witness statements to see if this what Yvonne was referring to
I strongly suspect Bamber told Brett Collins a great deal with regards to his plans - when Collins visited with him prior to the murders
And it’s possible the reason Brett Collins keeps referring to ‘mercenaries’ is because this is what Bamber discussed with him - again prior to the murders
I don’t know if Brett Collins posted the comments on the above YouTube video but if he did
He states,
‘just saw the new episode and interview about my former friend Jeremy Bamber its as close to the truth as was told by me ! as i was there before and after the murders finally some truth BRETT COLLINS NEW ZEALAND
‘you had to be there before and after to no what really hapendl! looks like jeremy had a plan all along he promised to many women marrage when he got his money!
Brett Collins statements above (presuming they originate from him ) can be found here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2IWwUJXZ8g
As far as I can tell Brett Collins has not given a full account of his conversations with Bamber prior to the murders - only titbits here and there
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Excerpts from Roger Wilkes book ‘Blood Relations’
’A 24-year-old woman named Sabina Butt struck up a relationship with Jeremy Bamber by offering to become his pen friend. She visited him at Wormwood Scrubs in the early months of his sentence, representing herself to tabloid journalists as the heiress of a multi-million-pound manufacturing empire. ‘I can’t believe he’s the evil monster he’s made out to be,’ said Miss Butt. ‘He told me he’s innocent and I believe him.’ Accordingly, the young woman announced she was pledging the family fortune to finance an appeal. Not long after this, a reporter traced Sabina Butt to the humble council house where she lived. The affair shrivelled on the spot.
‘The petite beauty met Bamber in a restaurant where he was a waiter. They slept together three weeks before the murders.
Sabina never believed he was guilty - and he bombarded her with sexy letters after he was jailed.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/KILLER+BAMBER+PLOTS+ORGIES+WITH+HEIRESS%3B+He+promises+sex+and...-a071830115
Did Amanda Perthen write the above?
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‘The petite beauty met Bamber in a restaurant where he was a waiter. They slept together three weeks before the murders.
Sabina never believed he was guilty - and he bombarded her with sexy letters after he was jailed.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/KILLER+BAMBER+PLOTS+ORGIES+WITH+HEIRESS%3B+He+promises+sex+and...-a071830115 (https://www.thefreelibrary.com/KILLER+BAMBER+PLOTS+ORGIES+WITH+HEIRESS%3B+He+promises+sex+and...-a071830115)
Did Amanda Perthen write the above?
Sounds like it... She was/is a Daily Mail hack, wasn't/isn't she? Why do you ask?
Poor Jem, no orgies (of the mixed kind) for him, but condemned to spend 37 solitary years fapping with a 1986 dog-eared edition of Parade.
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‘The petite beauty met Bamber in a restaurant where he was a waiter. They slept together three weeks before the murders.
Sabina never believed he was guilty - and he bombarded her with sexy letters after he was jailed.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/KILLER+BAMBER+PLOTS+ORGIES+WITH+HEIRESS%3B+He+promises+sex+and...-a071830115
Has Brett Collins ever commented on this woman?
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-sabina-butt-25-the-girlfriend-of-jailed-killer-jeremy-bamber-who-lives-20400005.html
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Sounds like it... She was/is a Daily Mail hack, wasn't/isn't she? Why do you ask?
Mike Burke referred to Amanda Perthen
⬇️
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ltgorwROQfwC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=Amanda+Perthen&source=bl&ots=Otyc4JEZdD&sig=ACfU3U3YbxVnDj3_ZP3SulMafq8LRsBcMQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjyk8L02Z75AhWlS0EAHTniDggQ6AF6BAgVEAI#v=onepage&q=Amanda%20Perthen&f=false
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Excerpts from Roger Wilkes book ‘Blood Relations’
’A 24-year-old woman named Sabina Butt struck up a relationship with Jeremy Bamber by offering to become his pen friend.
Roger Wilkes version differs drastically to Amanda Perthen’s
Sabina “……met Bamber in a restaurant where he was a waiter. They slept together three weeks before the murders”