UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on September 20, 2022, 07:17:14 PM
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The Portuguese ex-police chief who probed the disappearance of Madeleine McCann said her parents are 'still suspects' as he gloated over his court win today.
Referring to prime suspect Christian Brueckner who Amaral has claimed in the past is a scapegoat, he added in an interview on Radio Renascenca: 'Thousands even millions of euros have been invested in recent years to create a false suspect.'
Amaral was on Portuguese radio, insisting: 'Today the court referred once again to an important question.
'The couple are suspects, were suspects and remain suspects. Nothing else happened to the contrary.'
Goncalo Amaral laid into Gerry and Kate in the radio interview in his native country after learning they had lost the latest round of their libel battle against his 2008 book.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11231591/Gloating-Portuguese-cop-says-McCanns-suspects-disappearance-Madeleine.html
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Perhaps after all, this can only get better. But then I have hoped that it might.
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Perhaps after all, this can only get better. But then I have hoped that it might.
Well you know what happens to hope - it gets trampled underfoot by reality.
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Well you know what happens to hope - it gets trampled underfoot by reality.
Tell that to the smug idiot.
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Tell that to the smug idiot.
Hey, I'm still here you know....
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Hey, I'm still here you know....
You would have to go some to win that one from Amaral. Gloating is always dangerous.
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The Portuguese ex-police chief who probed the disappearance of Madeleine McCann said her parents are 'still suspects' as he gloated over his court win today.
Referring to prime suspect Christian Brueckner who Amaral has claimed in the past is a scapegoat, he added in an interview on Radio Renascenca: 'Thousands even millions of euros have been invested in recent years to create a false suspect.'
Amaral was on Portuguese radio, insisting: 'Today the court referred once again to an important question.
'The couple are suspects, were suspects and remain suspects. Nothing else happened to the contrary.'
Goncalo Amaral laid into Gerry and Kate in the radio interview in his native country after learning they had lost the latest round of their libel battle against his 2008 book.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11231591/Gloating-Portuguese-cop-says-McCanns-suspects-disappearance-Madeleine.html
Amaral is a total fool...I hope he carries on..
What he is saying is libellous but perhaps he's too thick to realise
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You would have to go some to win that one from Amaral. Gloating is always dangerous.
So can seeking revenge, always best to dig two graves.
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So can seeking revenge, always best to dig two graves.
I don't think seeking justice is seeking revenge.
I would appeal focussed on the fact that thr judgement is based on amarals opinion not being based on true facts
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How’s the investigation into the McCanns progressing? Shouldn’t be long now, tick tock, softly softly catchee monkey….
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How’s the investigation into the McCanns progressing? Shouldn’t be long now, tick tock, softly softly catchee monkey….
They'll be suspects until the day they die IMO.
Cops have nothing to work with, if my theory is anything close to the truth, although, that's logistically impossible for some inexplicable reason.
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How’s the investigation into the McCanns progressing? Shouldn’t be long now, tick tock, softly softly catchee monkey….
How long has it been now? Has Amaral gone completely mad?
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How long has it been now? Has Amaral gone completely mad?
Not really, there's still no sign of the abductor after 15 years, so maybe he was right & there just wasn't one.
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How long has it been now? Has Amaral gone completely mad?
Not mad, just bad - he can just say what he likes now, he knows he’s untouchable so can make outlandish claims and there’s nowt anyone anywhere can do about it.
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There seems to be an unhealthy obsession with Amaral. I find this puzzling.
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Not mad, just bad - he can just say what he likes now, he knows he’s untouchable so can make outlandish claims and there’s nowt anyone anywhere can do about it.
All good then.
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There seems to be an unhealthy obsession with Amaral. I find this puzzling.
He’s come out from under his stone and made a bizarre proclamation, it’s bound to be discussed - why do you find that puzzling?
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Amaral is a total fool...I hope he carries on..
What he is saying is libellous but perhaps he's too thick to realise
The Supreme Court in their last adjudication made it clear that the parents had not been cleared. That means that they are still technically suspect in Portugal regardless of what any police try to bleat in furtherance of international accords.
The McCanns were the last people to see her alive which by default will always render them as people of interest in the disappearance of Maddie.
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Amaral is a total fool...I hope he carries on..
What he is saying is libellous but perhaps he's too thick to realise
Givcen your record on legal pronouncements, it looks like he's free and clear.
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The Supreme Court in their last adjudication made it clear that the parents had not been cleared. That means that they are still technically suspect in Portugal regardless of what any police try to bleat in furtherance of international accords.
You are just showing how poorly you understand the situation.. Anyone who thinks the mccanns are suspects is a fool
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Givcen your record on legal pronouncements, it looks like he's free and clear.
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Had Davel ever got anything right? 8)-)))
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The Supreme Court in their last adjudication made it clear that the parents had not been cleared. That means that they are still technically suspect in Portugal regardless of what any police try to bleat in furtherance of international accords.
It's pretty hard to rule them out really, if you're honest about things.
They are the last to claim to have seen their daughter alive & well, & the only evidence she was abducted are their own self serving statements.
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You are just showing how poorly you understand the situation.. Anyone who thinks the mccanns are suspects is a fool
I won't take lessons from you Davel given your lack of legal understanding.
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The Supreme Court in their last adjudication made it clear that the parents had not been cleared. That means that they are still technically suspect in Portugal regardless of what any police try to bleat in furtherance of international accords.
The McCanns were the last people to see her alive which by default will always render them as people of interest in the disappearance of Maddie.
You are wrong... The SC did not say the mccanns have not been cleared.. Read it again and supply the correct quote
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I won't take lessons from you Davel given your lack of legal understanding.
I've shown quite detailed legal understanding.. Perhaps its just over your head... Like the fact that you think the SC said the mccanns haven't been cleared.. I repeat.... Anyone who thinks the mccanns are still suspects is a fool.
What amaral said is clearly libellous
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I've shown quite detailed legal understanding.. Perhaps its just over your head... Like the fact that you think the SC said the mccanns haven't been cleared.. I repeat.... Anyone who thinks the mccanns are still suspects is a fool.
What amaral said is clearly libellous
How were the police able to rule them out?
Utterly convinced by Kate's curtains were they, after they questioned the McCanns again?
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You are wrong... The SC did not say the mccanns have not been cleared.. Read it again and supply the correct quote
The Supreme Court judges have said that archiving per se should not be confused with being considered innocent.
https://metro.co.uk/2017/02/09/kate-and-gerry-mccann-havent-been-proved-innocent-over-maddies-disappearance-6436728/
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I've shown quite detailed legal understanding.. Perhaps its just over your head... Like the fact that you think the SC said the mccanns haven't been cleared.. I repeat.... Anyone who thinks the mccanns are still suspects is a fool.
What amaral said is clearly libellous
Your opinions have been shown to be wanting. You haven't got anything right yet @)(++(*
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The Supreme Court judges have said that archiving per se should not be confused with being considered innocent.
https://metro.co.uk/2017/02/09/kate-and-gerry-mccann-havent-been-proved-innocent-over-maddies-disappearance-6436728/
What? That doesn't make sense. No wonder Portugal has a problem.
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What? That doesn't make sense. No wonder Portugal has a problem.
It is really very simple. The Portuguese Supreme Court stated that the McCanns cannot be seen as having been cleared just because the case was archived. In other words, they could still be made suspects again should new evidence be found which undermines their version of events.
Basically, the door is still open to all scenarios.
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It is really very simple. The Portuguese Supreme Court stated that the McCanns cannot be seen as having been cleared just because the case was archived. In other words, they could still be made suspects again should new evidence be found which undermines their version of events.
Basically, the door is still open to all scenarios.
The McCanns and Brueckner together? That would be interesting.
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It is really very simple. The Portuguese Supreme Court stated that the McCanns cannot be seen as having been cleared just because the case was archived. In other words, they could still be made suspects again should new evidence be found which undermines their version of events.
Basically, the door is still open to all scenarios.
It was the McCanns who claimed to be cleared, and people in the UK chose to believe them. The Portuguese authorities never said they were. They announced when they archived it that the case could be reopened if new evidence emerged.
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It was the McCanns who claimed to be cleared, and people in the UK chose to believe them. The Portuguese authorities never said they were. They announced when they archived it that the case could be reopened if new evidence emerged.
Which it has been, and were the McCanns reconstituted arguidos? No. Why not then, if they are still suspects?
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Which it has been, and were the McCanns reconstituted arguidos? No. Why not then, if they are still suspects?
The case was reopened in 2013.
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The case was reopened in 2013.
Around the time the MET released e-fits of 'the abductor'.
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The case was reopened in 2013.
And your point is? According to Amaral the McCanns are still suspects. Where is the evidence for this?
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Remember that time when the McCanns were re-interviewed by the PJ?
Me neither.
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It would seem the McCann's have ruled out CB completely now, as they're also doubling down on their assertion that they are going to keep searching. Perhaps SY have briefed them on the nature of HCW's evidence.
This still leaves them all as suspects, although for different investigative bodies.
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It is really very simple. The Portuguese Supreme Court stated that the McCanns cannot be seen as having been cleared just because the case was archived. In other words, they could still be made suspects again should new evidence be found which undermines their version of events.
Basically, the door is still open to all scenarios.
Virtually goes for the majority of the world though. If new evidence comes to light. Like an NFA in the U.K
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Virtually goes for the majority of the world though. If new evidence comes to light. Like an NFA in the U.K
Everyone's a suspect until they're not [Generic cop show reference].
Not only are they not to be ruled out, they're to be ruled in.
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It would seem the McCann's have ruled out CB completely now, as they're also doubling down on their assertion that they are going to keep searching. Perhaps SY have briefed them on the nature of HCW's evidence.
This still leaves them all as suspects, although for different investigative bodies.
Yeah, the McCanns aren't at all convinced by HCW's proclamation, but davel is.
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Has anyone told Murat and all the other ex-arguidos that they are still suspects too?
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Anyone who thinks the McCanns are still suspects is a fool.
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Anyone who thinks the McCanns are still suspects is a fool.
You're right, the police were able to rule them out entirely on account of all the abduction evidence.
Which was what again?
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Everyone's a suspect until they're not [Generic cop show reference].
Not only are they not to be ruled out, they're to be ruled in.
Not in Portugal due to the statute of limitation... That means the mccanns are not suspects and can never be in the future
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Anyone who thinks the McCanns are still suspects is a fool.
I think we all know who is looking foolish atm.
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I think we all know who is looking foolish atm.
All I've seen is personal attacks.on me... What a pathetic bunch.
Even now you cannot address the thread topic... The McCanns are not suspects and anyone who thinks they are is a fool... You cannot challenge that statement
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All I've seen is personal attacks.on me... What a pathetic bunch.
Even now you cannot address the thread topic... The McCanns are not suspects and anyone who thinks they are is a fool... You cannot challenge that statement
No she can’t- she can’t provide evidence to support Amaral’s bizarre claim that the McCanns are still suspects. Did he mean, as far as the current investigation is concerned, or as far as a few numpties on the internet and himself are concerned?
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All I've seen is personal attacks.on me... What a pathetic bunch.
Even now you cannot address the thread topic... The McCanns are not suspects and anyone who thinks they are is a fool... You cannot challenge that statement
How do you know they're not suspects?
Is it because Redwood said so?
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Not in Portugal due to the statute of limitation... That means the mccanns are not suspects and can never be in the future
Now there's a thought. I bet that one gets ignored.
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All I've seen is personal attacks.on me... What a pathetic bunch.
Even now you cannot address the thread topic... The McCanns are not suspects and anyone who thinks they are is a fool... You cannot challenge that statement
Course you can, its nuances of the English language, if that can't be seen then the fool's are those that won't see it.
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The case was reopened in 2013.
And various individuals were constituted as arguidps. Are we to understand that by sceptic logic they are still suspects.
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Not in Portugal due to the statute of limitation... That means the mccanns are not suspects and can never be in the future
I suspect that is open to debate, did CB becoming arquido extend that, no good relying on you for legal interpretation that's for sure.
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Course you can, its nuances of the English language, if that can't be seen then the fool's are those that won't see it.
Don't get ahead of yourself mate.
We're going to look total numpties when Wolters reveals the concrete evidence. Should be happening just after the Behan rape case.
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And various individuals were constituted as arguidps. Are we to understand that by sceptic logic they are still suspects.
Some people have probably been re-interviewed and ruled out, as I'm certain the McCanns have.
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Has anyone told Murat and all the other ex-arguidos that they are still suspects too?
Precisely. I'm getting the impression that some members haven't quite grasped the concept of sauce for the goose being sauce for the gander.
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All I've seen is personal attacks.on me... What a pathetic bunch.
Even now you cannot address the thread topic... The McCanns are not suspects and anyone who thinks they are is a fool... You cannot challenge that statement
The pathetic bunch imo are those who refuse to accept reality. The McCanns are not formal suspects but neither have they ever been cleared. They weren't cleared by the archiving dispatch or by any other legal procedure.
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The pathetic bunch imo are those who refuse to accept reality. The McCanns are not formal suspects but neither have they ever been cleared. They weren't cleared by the archiving dispatch or by any other legal procedure.
The concrete evidence against Brueckner clears them.
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And various individuals were constituted as arguidps. Are we to understand that by sceptic logic they are still suspects.
I have no idea. None of them seem to care either. Only two former arguidos claimed to have been cleared. Apparently, just like the other arguidos, they weren't.
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Not in Portugal due to the statute of limitation... That means the mccanns are not suspects and can never be in the future
An example of logic in operation.
The McCanns are in the clear according to the Portuguese constitution, whereas Amaral has opened a new chapter on himself with his very recent slurs.
Interestingly the statute of limitations rule is not yet applicable to Murat or those others questioned as suspects in 2014.
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Amaral is a total fool...I hope he carries on..
What he is saying is libellous but perhaps he's too thick to realise
perhaps he's too thick to realise
What you should accept is the mccs have never been cleared.
The couple are suspects, were suspects and remain suspects. Nothing else happened to the contrary.'
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I think we all know who is looking foolish atm.
Certainly those upholders of all things Portuguese good, bad or indifferent are making themselves look rather curious in their refusal to apply rules of the Portuguese constitution where the McCanns are concerned.
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The pathetic bunch imo are those who refuse to accept reality. The McCanns are not formal suspects but neither have they ever been cleared. They weren't cleared by the archiving dispatch or by any other legal procedure.
Does “not being cleared” = “suspect”?
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perhaps he's too thick to realise
What you should accept is the mccs have never been cleared.
The couple are suspects, were suspects and remain suspects. Nothing else happened to the contrary.'
Where is the evidence for the statement you have just quoted?
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Does “not being cleared” = “suspect”?
Yes.
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Certainly those upholders of all things Portuguese good, bad or indifferent are making themselves look rather curious in their refusal to apply rules of the Portuguese constitution where the McCanns are concerned.
Which bit of the constitution do you think is applicable?
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perhaps he's too thick to realise
What you should accept is the mccs have never been cleared.
The couple are suspects, were suspects and remain suspects. Nothing else happened to the contrary.'
Anyone who thinks the mccanns are suspects is a fool.
In what investigation do you think they are suspects
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Yes.
Hi slarti, glad to see you're still alive. I was beginning to think you'd been abducted by Vogons.
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It is really very simple. The Portuguese Supreme Court stated that the McCanns cannot be seen as having been cleared just because the case was archived. In other words, they could still be made suspects again should new evidence be found which undermines their version of events.
Basically, the door is still open to all scenarios.
Exactly.
It is a cold case now...... as it was a cold case then.
Nothing whatsoever to prove an abduction....still to this day all mccs have cared about it seems is reputation etc.
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Exactly.
It is a cold case now...... as it was a cold case then.
Nothing whatsoever to prove an abduction....still to this day all mccs have cared about it seems is reputation etc.
No, they are tirelessly searching for Maddie & they'll never give up hope, even though there's concrete evidence she was murdered by a paedo.
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Course you can, its nuances of the English language, if that can't be seen then the fool's are those that won't see it.
In September 2007, Gerry and Kate McCann were questioned by police as formal suspects. The following July, however, the Portuguese police dropped the investigation for lack of evidence and acquitted the McCann of any involvement.
Em setembro de 2007, Gerry e Kate McCann chegaram a ser interrogados pela polícia como suspeitos formais. No mês de julho seguinte, no entanto, a polícia portuguesa desistiu da investigação por falta de provas e absolveu os McCann de qualquer envolvimento.
https://g1.globo.com/mundo/noticia/2022/09/20/pais-de-maddie-desaparecida-em-portugal-em-2007-perdem-caso-contra-policia-portuguesa.ghtml
Sometimes the nuances in translation from one language to another are almost infinitesimal. Who would have thought that absolveu and acquitted mean much the same whether in Portuguese of English
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The pathetic bunch imo are those who refuse to accept reality. The McCanns are not formal suspects but neither have they ever been cleared. They weren't cleared by the archiving dispatch or by any other legal procedure.
Your mccann prejudice blinds you to the numerous references to innocence and non-involvement. You really must raise your sights above and beyond the filth propagated by conspiracy theorists in the darker corners of the internet.
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Your mccann prejudice blinds you to the numerous references to innocence and non-involvement. You really must raise your sights above and beyond the filth propagated by conspiracy theorists in the darker corners of the internet.
If she just took the blinkers off for a minute she'd be utterly overcome by all the concrete evidence Maddie was abducted.
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perhaps he's too thick to realise
What you should accept is the mccs have never been cleared.
The couple are suspects, were suspects and remain suspects. Nothing else happened to the contrary.'
Amaral has really shown himself up in all his recent publicised utterances and none more so than in his most recent; although I thought his lies concerning an active criminal investigation took some beating.
He obviously has no intention of retiring from the limelight which probably makes it well overdue for him to be treated with the forensic scrutiny he obviously deserves.
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Yes.
That’s official is it? So Murat is still a suspect. Right you are then.
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bump;
Quote from: Brietta on Today at 09:52:08 AM
Certainly those upholders of all things Portuguese good, bad or indifferent are making themselves look rather curious in their refusal to apply rules of the Portuguese constitution where the McCanns are concerned.
Which bit of the constitution do you think is applicable?
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Amaral has really shown himself up in all his recent publicised utterances and none more so than in his most recent; although I thought his lies concerning an active criminal investigation took some beating.
He obviously has no intention of retiring from the limelight which probably makes it well overdue for him to be treated with the forensic scrutiny he obviously deserves.
It's just too lucrative for him to retire to anywhere. This latest in a series of victories has secured 'work', such as it is as he merely has to turn up and talk, stretching off in to the foreseeable. He might even pay his brother back, if he can be arsed. CHUUURRRR CCHHIINNGG!!
He deserves it, the way that spiteful pair have treated him.
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Amaral has really shown himself up in all his recent publicised utterances and none more so than in his most recent; although I thought his lies concerning an active criminal investigation took some beating.
He obviously has no intention of retiring from the limelight which probably makes it well overdue for him to be treated with the forensic scrutiny he obviously deserves.
If you are looking for anyone to blame for Amaral still being in the limelight then look no further than Maddie's parents. Had they not raised the various legal actions against him, he would have disappeared into obscurity.
And now that he has won the cases they raised his profile is as high as ever again!
Anyone hear anything from that nasty pair, the Cipriano duo, recently?
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It's just too lucrative for him to retire to anywhere. This latest in a series of victories has secured 'work', such as it is as he merely has to turn up and talk, stretching off in to the foreseeable. He might even pay his brother back, if he can be arsed. CHUUURRRR CCHHIINNGG!!
He deserves it, the way that spiteful pair have treated him.
Paying his brother back would be a good thing. Money awarded against him in a court case in 2003ish.
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If you are looking for anyone to blame for Amaral still being in the limelight then look no further than Maddie's parents. Had they not raised the various legal actions against him, he would have disappeared into obscurity.
And now that he has won the cases they raised his profile is as high as ever again!
Nothing to do with Bruckner and The Dreadlocks I suppose.
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Nothing to do with Bruckner and The Dreadlocks I suppose.
Bruckner is just a patsy, like those other patsies, dead or alive that the cops attempted to frame for Maddie's murder.
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Paying his brother back would be a good thing. Money awarded against him in a court case in 2003ish.
I shoe-horned that little line in there as a preemptive strike, knowing the mentality of the average supporter.
The dirt digging exercise yielded a meagre haul if that's all that's left; along with the Leonor getting a kicking off inmates episode.
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Bruckner is just a patsy, like those other patsies, dead or alive.
No he's guilty of murdering Maddie... I can say that based on police statements which according to the ECHR judgment make it a fact
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Which bit of the constitution do you think is applicable?
Who was the first person to be declared as being an arguido in the Madeline McCann investigation?
Robert Murat, an Anglo-Portuguese property developer who lived 100 yards from where Madeleine disappeared and who helped in the initial search, was made an arguido after detectives took him in for questioning.
Murat was formally cleared of suspicion in 2008 and won damages for defamatory reports of his involvement in the disappearance.
How was it used in relation to Kate and Gerry McCann?
Kate McCann, Madeleine’s mother, was formally declared an arguida on 7 September 2007, after 10 hours of questioning by Portuguese police. Gerry McCann was given arguido status the following day after further police questioning.
It wasn’t until July 2008, after Portuguese police had submitted their final report, that both parents were formally cleared by the Portuguese authorities of involvement in their daughter’s disappearance.
“It is hard to describe how utterly despairing it was to be named arguidos and subsequently portrayed in the media as suspects in our own daughter’s abduction,” said Kate McCann, who added it had been “equally devastating to witness the detrimental effect” it had on the search for her daughter.
What are the circumstances of the latest designation of arguido status?
Brückner, a convicted rapist identified as a murder suspect by German prosecutors in June 2020, has been formally identified as a suspect by Portuguese authorities.
The timing of the move could be related to Portugal’s 15-year statute of limitations for crimes with a maximum prison sentence of 10 years or more. Madeleine disappeared on 3 May 2007, while on holiday with her parents in Praia da Luz in Portugal.
What are the legal and practical implications of the status?
In practical terms, a person has to be declared an arguido before they can be arrested and the approach of investigators to interviews typically shifts if someone’s status changes from being a witness.
Once a case file is completed, the police pass it to the public ministry, the equivalent of the Crown Prosecution Service, which decides whether an acusaçao or indictment is brought.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/22/madeleine-mccann-case-what-does-christian-brueckner-arguido-status-mean
Do you want me to go through it and explain it all to you in debating terms or do you think you'll be able to read it all through for yourself.
Bearing in mind that Murat and the McCanns were absolved from blame in 2008; did anyone give any assurances for the later consignment in particular as we are informed that due to the statute of limitations - Brueckner will be the last.
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Bruckner is just a patsy, like those other patsies, dead or alive that the cops attempted to frame for Maddie's murder.
so who did it then? You seem very sure of yourself.
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bump;
Quote from: Brietta on Today at 09:52:08 AM
Certainly those upholders of all things Portuguese good, bad or indifferent are making themselves look rather curious in their refusal to apply rules of the Portuguese constitution where the McCanns are concerned.
Which bit of the constitution do you think is applicable?
bump;
Who was the first person to be declared as being an arguido in the Madeline McCann investigation?
Robert Murat, an Anglo-Portuguese property developer who lived 100 yards from where Madeleine disappeared and who helped in the initial search, was made an arguido after detectives took him in for questioning.
Murat was formally cleared of suspicion in 2008 and won damages for defamatory reports of his involvement in the disappearance.
How was it used in relation to Kate and Gerry McCann?
Kate McCann, Madeleine’s mother, was formally declared an arguida on 7 September 2007, after 10 hours of questioning by Portuguese police. Gerry McCann was given arguido status the following day after further police questioning.
It wasn’t until July 2008, after Portuguese police had submitted their final report, that both parents were formally cleared by the Portuguese authorities of involvement in their daughter’s disappearance.
“It is hard to describe how utterly despairing it was to be named arguidos and subsequently portrayed in the media as suspects in our own daughter’s abduction,” said Kate McCann, who added it had been “equally devastating to witness the detrimental effect” it had on the search for her daughter.
What are the circumstances of the latest designation of arguido status?
Brückner, a convicted rapist identified as a murder suspect by German prosecutors in June 2020, has been formally identified as a suspect by Portuguese authorities.
The timing of the move could be related to Portugal’s 15-year statute of limitations for crimes with a maximum prison sentence of 10 years or more. Madeleine disappeared on 3 May 2007, while on holiday with her parents in Praia da Luz in Portugal.
What are the legal and practical implications of the status?
In practical terms, a person has to be declared an arguido before they can be arrested and the approach of investigators to interviews typically shifts if someone’s status changes from being a witness.
Once a case file is completed, the police pass it to the public ministry, the equivalent of the Crown Prosecution Service, which decides whether an acusaçao or indictment is brought.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/22/madeleine-mccann-case-what-does-christian-brueckner-arguido-status-mean
Do you want me to go through it and explain it all to you in debating terms or do you think you'll be able to read it all through for yourself.
Bearing in mind that Murat and the McCanns were absolved from blame in 2008; did anyone give any assurances for the later consignment in particular as we are informed that due to the statute of limitations - Brueckner will be the last.
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Who was the first person to be declared as being an arguido in the Madeline McCann investigation?
Robert Murat, an Anglo-Portuguese property developer who lived 100 yards from where Madeleine disappeared and who helped in the initial search, was made an arguido after detectives took him in for questioning.
Murat was formally cleared of suspicion in 2008 and won damages for defamatory reports of his involvement in the disappearance.
How was it used in relation to Kate and Gerry McCann?
Kate McCann, Madeleine’s mother, was formally declared an arguida on 7 September 2007, after 10 hours of questioning by Portuguese police. Gerry McCann was given arguido status the following day after further police questioning.
It wasn’t until July 2008, after Portuguese police had submitted their final report, that both parents were formally cleared by the Portuguese authorities of involvement in their daughter’s disappearance.
“It is hard to describe how utterly despairing it was to be named arguidos and subsequently portrayed in the media as suspects in our own daughter’s abduction,” said Kate McCann, who added it had been “equally devastating to witness the detrimental effect” it had on the search for her daughter.
What are the circumstances of the latest designation of arguido status?
Brückner, a convicted rapist identified as a murder suspect by German prosecutors in June 2020, has been formally identified as a suspect by Portuguese authorities.
The timing of the move could be related to Portugal’s 15-year statute of limitations for crimes with a maximum prison sentence of 10 years or more. Madeleine disappeared on 3 May 2007, while on holiday with her parents in Praia da Luz in Portugal.
What are the legal and practical implications of the status?
In practical terms, a person has to be declared an arguido before they can be arrested and the approach of investigators to interviews typically shifts if someone’s status changes from being a witness.
Once a case file is completed, the police pass it to the public ministry, the equivalent of the Crown Prosecution Service, which decides whether an acusaçao or indictment is brought.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/22/madeleine-mccann-case-what-does-christian-brueckner-arguido-status-mean
Do you want me to go through it and explain it all to you in debating terms or do you think you'll be able to read it all through for yourself.
Bearing in mind that Murat and the McCanns were absolved from blame in 2008; did anyone give any assurances for the later consignment in particular as we are informed that due to the statute of limitations - Brueckner will be the last.
I don't see any mention of the constitution?
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No he's guilty of murdering Maddie... I can say that based on police statements which according to the ECHR judgment make it a fact
I think you've totally lost it now Davel.
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If you are looking for anyone to blame for Amaral still being in the limelight then look no further than Maddie's parents. Had they not raised the various legal actions against him, he would have disappeared into obscurity.
And now that he has won the cases they raised his profile is as high as ever again!
Anyone hear anything from that nasty pair, the Cipriano duo, recently?
Amaral has no intention of 'retiring' for as long as he sees there is danger of police criminal investigations running the risk of actually finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann and who is responsible for it.
He was forced to break cover on Saunokonoko's 2019 podcast in an effort to derail the investigation into Brueckner.
My opinion is that Amaral is a very worried man.
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Amaral has no intention of 'retiring' for as long as he sees there is danger of police criminal investigations running the risk of actually finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann and who is responsible for it.
He was forced to break cover on Saunokonoko's 2019 podcast in an effort to derail the investigation into Brueckner.
My opinion is that Amaral is a very worried man.
I think Amaral needs seriously looking into.
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I don't see any mention of the constitution?
Are you suggesting that the archiving of Madeleine's case in 2008 negating the status of the arguidos is unconstitutional?
And to think I thought you were a bit cleverer than that 😁
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I think Amaral needs seriously looking into.
I'm not too sure that is not already well underway. The Germans have feigned disinterest although I don't think they really have any locus. The guys who do, the Portuguese have said nothing one way or the other. But if they haven't noticed his bizarre behaviour they can't be too bright and I don't think that is the case.
I think it is possibly too complicated to waste time on him at the moment but are instead concentrating on the real investigation.
They are aware of him ... but he can wait until he seriously annoys the judicial police; bearing in mind if Brueckner is brought to trial it will be in Germany.
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Gonçalo Amaral accuses PJ of dropping investigation into Maddie case
Sep 20, 2022 - 15:38 • José Pedro Frazão
Speaking to the Renaissance, the former PJ inspector welcomed the defeat of the McCann couple at the European Court of Human Rights.
Gonçalo Amaral welcomes the defeat of Maddie McCann's parents in European fora and accuses the Judicial Police (PJ) of dropping the investigation.
Speaking to the Renaissance, the former inspector even says that the current director PJ, Luís Neves, has some responsibility, not least because he was part of the investigation at the time of the disappearance of the British girl.
The former judicial criminal investigation coordinator believes that the Maddie case should be reviewed by Portuguese investigators.
"Where is [the case] blocked?
In the Judicial Police.
The Judicial Police should have had the initiative to review the investigation in a serious way.
In particular, the current director of the PJ, Dr. Luís Neves, was in the investigation, he knows how we reached those conclusions. Those conclusions were not only me who took them or came to them alone, neither my colleague chief inspector Tavares de Almeida, nor Dr. Guilhermino da Encarnação, now deceased, who was the director of Faro, also with Dr. Luís Neves", says Gonçalo Amaral.
"And it is Dr. Luís Neves who, when he was debuted in my trial of compensation, tells me that the process... should have already arranged a scapegoat to end the process", he said.
Asked if the current director of the PJ is being manipulated, Gonçalo Amaral does not believe in this possibility.
"I know him very well. I know he doesn't let himself be manipulated, but deep down he shouldn't be connecting too much of the situation and about to delegate it to other people," he argues.
Gonçalo Amaral in statements to the Renaissance after the decision of the European Court of Human Rights, which on Tuesday ruled in favor of the Portuguese justice in the case Maddie McCann.
The case was brought by the parents of the British child who disappeared in 2007 from a house in Praia da Luz, in the municipality of Lagos.
Speaking to the Renaissance, the former PJ inspector welcomed the defeat of the McCann couple at the European Court of Human Rights.
"What is at stake here is a victory of the Portuguese justice against those who do not want the discovery of the truth, nor the realization of justice," says Gonçalo Amaral.
https://rr.sapo.pt/noticia/pais/2022/09/20/goncalo-amaral-acusa-pj-de-deixar-cair-investigacao-ao-caso-maddie/300435/
I think Amaral may be breaking quite dangerous ground here with his attack on the Policia Judiciaria and interestingly associates Neves with "scapegoat".
This really is a guy with a serious agenda.
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Amaral needs to realise he is a has- been. He has no influence over the Portuguese Police. No one is interested in his ridiculous claims. He has tried to interfere with the German investigation and made a fool of himself. Why butt in and show photo's which showed CB with Dreadlocks why show a van with stickers. What is he playing at.
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Are you suggesting that the archiving of Madeleine's case in 2008 negating the status of the arguidos is unconstitutional?
And to think I thought you were a bit cleverer than that 😁
No, I have offered no opinion on what is or isn't constitutional. I must admit that the twists and turns your mind follows are not always clear to me.
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Amaral needs to realise he is a has- been. He has no influence over the Portuguese Police. No one is interested in his ridiculous claims. He has tried to interfere with the German investigation and made a fool of himself. Why butt in and show photo's which showed CB with Dreadlocks why show a van with stickers. What is he playing at.
Except the horde of press baying for 5 minutes of his time and the undoubted constant TV interview requests.
Apart from that......
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Amaral needs to realise he is a has- been. He has no influence over the Portuguese Police. No one is interested in his ridiculous claims. He has tried to interfere with the German investigation and made a fool of himself. Why butt in and show photo's which showed CB with Dreadlocks why show a van with stickers. What is he playing at.
Amaral needs to realise he is a has- been.
But he is not is he....seems people have more interest in what he has to say.... than the mccs,
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Except the horde of press baying for 5 minutes of his time and the undoubted constant TV interview requests.
Apart from that......
The McCanns seem to have abandoned the chat show circuit for some reason.
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Amaral needs to realise he is a has- been.
But he is not is he....seems people have more interest in what he has to say.... than the mccs,
The one most interested in what he has to say seem to be McCann supporters @)(++(*
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Amaral needs to realise he is a has- been.
But he is not is he....seems people have more interest in what he has to say.... than the mccs,
His thesis was all over the papers yesterday. More publicity for his book, he has the McCanns to thank for that.
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Amaral needs to realise he is a has- been.
But he is not is he....seems people have more interest in what he has to say.... than the mccs,
Which people are you referring to?
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The one most interested in what he has to say seem to be McCann supporters @)(++(*
They barely ever shut up about him.
More interested in him than the concrete evidence against the abductor.
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Which people are you referring to?
Well the media were interested yesterday.
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His thesis was all over the papers yesterday. More publicity for his book, he has the McCanns to thank for that.
He's as busy as ever. Although he should be mid-way through his daily, 3 hour boozy lunch by now I expect.
What a lad.
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People are interested to read what nonsense Meghan Markle has to say - it doesn’t mean she is right or greatly respected over other royals. Same with Amaral. His witterings are good value but more than a bit bonkers.
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His thesis was all over the papers yesterday. More publicity for his book, he has the McCanns to thank for that.
Yes.......they gave him publicity money couldn't buy...without them he would have disappeared into obscurity
Still keeping his theory in the news today....I think it might have backfired a bit though for the mcs intention.
Justice works in mysterious ways.
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He's as busy as ever. Although he should be mid-way through his daily, 3 hour boozy lunch by now I expect.
What a lad.
Alpha Chad.
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Yes.......they gave him publicity money couldn't buy...without them he would have disappeared into obscurity
Still keeping his theory in the news today....I think it might have backfired a bit though for the mcs intention.
Justice works in mysterious ways.
I was sat in a cafe about 10 years ago & read the paper that was to hand. It detailed the libel trial.
If they'd never brought the civil action I might never have even heard of him. But I already suspected them anyway because they were shifty as.
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Yes.......they gave him publicity money couldn't buy...without them he would have disappeared into obscurity
Still keeping his theory in the news today....I think it might have backfired a bit though for the mcs intention.
Justice works in mysterious ways.
It sure does, so far neither the McCanns nor Madeleine have received it. The only person laughing all the way to the bank is the incompetent ex-cop who mishandled the case from the start and who has a conviction for lying. It’s a cruel world sometimes. How the McCanns haven’t thrown themselves under a speeding Intercity by now I have no idea. They must possess great inner strength.
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No, I have offered no opinion on what is or isn't constitutional. I must admit that the twists and turns your mind follows are not always clear to me.
Hmmm, that's an interesting assessment. Conversely, I must admit to knowing exactly what you are all about.
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It sure does, so far neither the McCanns nor Madeleine have received it. The only person laughing all the way to the bank is the incompetent ex-cop who mishandled the case from the start and who has a conviction for lying. It’s a cruel world sometimes. How the McCanns haven’t thrown themselves under a speeding Intercity by now I have no idea. They must possess great inner strength.
It is a cruel world ...very cruel.
The inner strength imo is survival... they are fighting for there right to reputation ect etc. not maddie
GA believes that maddie died in an accident...I'm sure you can imagine the outcome of their career reputation lives ...if that had been proved.
They brought all this on themselves
What a tragedy that children don't have rights to be protected ...like the mccs have been
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Amaral needs to realise he is a has- been.
But he is not is he....seems people have more interest in what he has to say.... than the mccs,
Has-been as in 'not a Police Officer anymore'. What he has to say must give the Portuguese, German and British Police a good laugh.
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Has-been as in 'not a Police Officer anymore'. What he has to say must give the Portuguese, German and British Police a good laugh.
But not the McCanns, which is the mportant thing.
On the upside they could stick all of those unopened presents for Maddie on Vinted to raise a few bob. Every cloud.
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Strange isn't it. The family of JonBenet Ramsey have sued anyone who accused them of her death. Maybe Amaral should not be so quick as to mouth off, as if it is proven the McCann's had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance they could sue him for slander.
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But not the McCanns, which is the mportant thing.
On the upside they could stick all of those unopened presents for Maddie on Vinted to raise a few bob. Every cloud.
If you think that's a silver lining then I think you need to take yourself aside and wonder what sort of person you are.
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If you think that's a silver lining then I think you need to take yourself aside and wonder what sort of person you are.
Pragmatist. That's what I landed on. Practical, applicable and results oriented. S.M.A.R.T. yeh....
Useful exercise that, cheers.
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Gonçalo Amaral highlights "victory" of justice and again accuses couple McCann
Roberto Bessa Moreira
Former Judicial Police inspector Gonçalo Amaral praises the decision of the European Court of Human Rights and maintains an opinion that Maddie's parents are the main suspects in her disappearance.
Gonçalo Amaral stresses that the decision of the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) means "the victory of the justice system Portuguese and of all those who defend freedom of expression and opinion".
"The strategy of the complainants failed 15 years ago and failed again. Nor with the creation of a false suspect, Maddie's parents were able to influence the ECtHR's decision and clean up its image. It was a resounding defeat," says the former inspector of the Judicial Police.
To JN, Gonçalo Amaral argues that Kate and Jerry McCann "remain the main suspects" of the disappearance of the child. "Nothing that has been done so far bess much the report made by Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida in 2007, which points to an accidental death, simulation of abduction and concealment of corpse", justifies.
The man who started the investigation into Maddie McCann's disappearance insists on criticism of the English couple, accusing him of being "more concerned with cleaning up his image than finding his daughter."
https://www.jn.pt/justica/goncalo-amaral-destaca-vitoria-da-justica-e-volta-a-acusar-casal-mccann-15181447.html
Is this interpretation of events really what the ECHR judges' ruling actually intended to convey?
I rather doubt it was intended to signify the retrograde step to what should have been a bygone era where we see the likes of convicted torturer Tavares being eulogised yet again.
Two PJ inspectors convicted of torture
The victim's lawyer is relieved by the end of a process that has been going on for 13 years. "From what I understand, this is the first time that such a process has led to the conviction of specific people," he tells the Express.
https://expresso.pt/sociedade/dois-inspetores-da-pj-condenados-por-tortura=f782292
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Strange isn't it. The family of JonBenet Ramsey have sued anyone who accused them of her death. Maybe Amaral should not be so quick as to mouth off, as if it is proven the McCann's had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance they could sue him for slander.
In America they sue the milkman for being too loud. So not the best example.
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Gonçalo Amaral highlights "victory" of justice and again accuses couple McCann
Roberto Bessa Moreira
Former Judicial Police inspector Gonçalo Amaral praises the decision of the European Court of Human Rights and maintains an opinion that Maddie's parents are the main suspects in her disappearance.
Gonçalo Amaral stresses that the decision of the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) means "the victory of the justice system Portuguese and of all those who defend freedom of expression and opinion".
"The strategy of the complainants failed 15 years ago and failed again. Nor with the creation of a false suspect, Maddie's parents were able to influence the ECtHR's decision and clean up its image. It was a resounding defeat," says the former inspector of the Judicial Police.
To JN, Gonçalo Amaral argues that Kate and Jerry McCann "remain the main suspects" of the disappearance of the child. "Nothing that has been done so far bess much the report made by Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida in 2007, which points to an accidental death, simulation of abduction and concealment of corpse", justifies.
The man who started the investigation into Maddie McCann's disappearance insists on criticism of the English couple, accusing him of being "more concerned with cleaning up his image than finding his daughter."
https://www.jn.pt/justica/goncalo-amaral-destaca-vitoria-da-justica-e-volta-a-acusar-casal-mccann-15181447.html
Is this interpretation of events really what the ECHR judges' ruling actually intended to convey?
I rather doubt it was intended to signify the retrograde step to what should have been a bygone era where we see the likes of convicted torturer Tavares being eulogised yet again.
Two PJ inspectors convicted of torture
The victim's lawyer is relieved by the end of a process that has been going on for 13 years. "From what I understand, this is the first time that such a process has led to the conviction of specific people," he tells the Express.
https://expresso.pt/sociedade/dois-inspetores-da-pj-condenados-por-tortura=f782292
We've been down this road; a few slaps is not torture.
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Strange isn't it. The family of JonBenet Ramsey have sued anyone who accused them of her death. Maybe Amaral should not be so quick as to mouth off, as if it is proven the McCann's had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance they could sue him for slander.
Ha. I don't think McCann will want to go anywhere near a Portuguese Court ever again.
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It is a cruel world ...very cruel.
The inner strength imo is survival... they are fighting for there right to reputation ect etc. not maddie
GA believes that maddie died in an accident...I'm sure you can imagine the outcome of their career reputation lives ...if that had been proved.
They brought all this on themselves
What a tragedy that children don't have rights to be protected ...like the mccs have been
you won’t be surprised to learn that I have a completely different point of view to yours, one in which the parents of an abducted child have been mercilessly vilified for 15 years, by the press initially, and then by the online righteous warriors of the internet and by the dishonest cop who tried his best to stitch them up.
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If you think that's a silver lining then I think you need to take yourself aside and wonder what sort of person you are.
A deeply unpleasant one for sure based on that and other tasteless and vindictive comments on this forum. And he had the audacity to question my mental health - here he is trolling again for all his worth and revelling in others’ misfortune.
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Ha. I don't think McCann will want to go anywhere near a Portuguese Court ever again.
They'll have to give evidence at Brueckner's trial soon.
Kate can convince the judge about the curtains.
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A deeply unpleasant one for sure based on that and other tasteless and vindictive comments on this forum. And he had the audacity to question my mental health - here he is trolling again for all his worth and revelling in others’ misfortune.
Try telling me there wouldn't be any gloating from your side had the McCanns been successful at the ECHR.
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Strange isn't it. The family of JonBenet Ramsey have sued anyone who accused them of her death. Maybe Amaral should not be so quick as to mouth off, as if it is proven the McCann's had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance they could sue him for slander.
He only stated that they have never been formally cleared and he has the backing of the highest court in Portugal.
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Gonçalo Amaral highlights "victory" of justice and again accuses couple McCann
Roberto Bessa Moreira
Former Judicial Police inspector Gonçalo Amaral praises the decision of the European Court of Human Rights and maintains an opinion that Maddie's parents are the main suspects in her disappearance.
Gonçalo Amaral stresses that the decision of the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) means "the victory of the justice system Portuguese and of all those who defend freedom of expression and opinion".
"The strategy of the complainants failed 15 years ago and failed again. Nor with the creation of a false suspect, Maddie's parents were able to influence the ECtHR's decision and clean up its image. It was a resounding defeat," says the former inspector of the Judicial Police.
To JN, Gonçalo Amaral argues that Kate and Jerry McCann "remain the main suspects" of the disappearance of the child. "Nothing that has been done so far bess much the report made by Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida in 2007, which points to an accidental death, simulation of abduction and concealment of corpse", justifies.
The man who started the investigation into Maddie McCann's disappearance insists on criticism of the English couple, accusing him of being "more concerned with cleaning up his image than finding his daughter."
https://www.jn.pt/justica/goncalo-amaral-destaca-vitoria-da-justica-e-volta-a-acusar-casal-mccann-15181447.html
Is this interpretation of events really what the ECHR judges' ruling actually intended to convey?
I rather doubt it was intended to signify the retrograde step to what should have been a bygone era where we see the likes of convicted torturer Tavares being eulogised yet again.
Two PJ inspectors convicted of torture
The victim's lawyer is relieved by the end of a process that has been going on for 13 years. "From what I understand, this is the first time that such a process has led to the conviction of specific people," he tells the Express.
https://expresso.pt/sociedade/dois-inspetores-da-pj-condenados-por-tortura=f782292
Off topic Brietta. This old story has nothing to do with Maddie's disappearance.
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He only stated that they have never been formally cleared and he has the backing of the highest court in Portugal.
The SC didn't say they never have been formally cleared..
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Off topic Brietta. This old story has nothing to do with Maddie's disappearance.
You've got that absolutely wrong, Angelo.
Check it out.
The topic is "Portuguese cop says the McCanns 'are still suspects'!" As we know the 'portuguese cop' of reference is Amaral.
Please note I have quoted none other than Amaral maintaining "an opinion that Maddie's parents are the main suspects in her disappearance." as well as making reference to convicted torturer Almeida.
So if my post isn't right bang on topic (which it patently is!) I am intrigued as to exactly what you think is. Maybe the drivel posted by the resident wind up 'abduction denier' merchants might figure in there somewhere?
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It sure does, so far neither the McCanns nor Madeleine have received it. The only person laughing all the way to the bank is the incompetent ex-cop who mishandled the case from the start and who has a conviction for lying. It’s a cruel world sometimes. How the McCanns haven’t thrown themselves under a speeding Intercity by now I have no idea. They must possess great inner strength.
Perhaps strong enough to be able to conceal their daughters body, stage an abduction & convince a host of idiots she really was abducted.
I suppose that's possible also.
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He only stated that they have never been formally cleared and he has the backing of the highest court in Portugal.
No,he has claimed that the McCanns are still suspects. If you asked the three police forces currently investigating this case if the McCanns are still suspects what do you think they would say to that?
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No,he has claimed that the McCanns are still suspects. If you asked the three police forces currently investigating this case if the McCanns are still suspects what do you think they would say to that?
How would you know if they were telling the truth, whatever their answer?
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I mean, Wolters says he has concrete evidence.
How can we be certain he has?
Because he said so?
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Hi slarti, glad to see you're still alive. I was beginning to think you'd been abducted by Vogons.
Unfortunately I got stuck on the Earth for rather longer than I intended, I came for a week and got stuck for fifteen years.