Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.

[stephen25000]

Their media appearances were for one reason only and that was to keep Madeleine in the public eye and consciousness.

The measure of their success is in proportion to the vilification heaped upon them for doing so and the fact that Madeleine is still known nine years after her disappearance.

"We would like to say a few words to the person who is with our Madeleine, or has been with Madeleine.

Madeleine is a beautiful, bright, sunny and caring little girl.

She is so special.

Please, please, do not hurt her.

Please do not scare her, please let us know where to find Madeleine or put her in place of safety and tell somebody where.

We beg you to let Madeleine come home."

I am afraid all those words Brietta haven't changed a thing.

Likewise,  all the media appearances have done nothing but maintain the perception in many people's eyes, have been about the Mccann's egos.

[Benice]

Whilst strictly speaking off-topic, the McCanns were arguidos when they returned to the UK, and remained so until the case was archived.

And to get back on topic, I'm finding it easier just to wait a shortish time to see if an appeal is launched with the SC.  It would appear at the moment that Gonçalo Amaral has a much freer hand than normal to pursue his ventures, so the McCanns need to think carefully about whether an appeal is worth it or not.

Am I right in thinking the original award was only made against Amaral, and not the book publishers, TVI, and the DVD publishers (if they were actually involved in the trial)?  Seems odd that Amaral got singled out, since the TVI 'documentary' struck me as inflicting much more significant damage.

I have mixed feeling about whether an appeal by the McCanns is worth it or not.

As much as I hate injustice - It seems to me that our two countries are not just poles apart when it comes to the subject of Libel,- we're not even on the same planet.

Although I can understand PT wanting to emphasize the importance of Freedom of Expression since becoming a democracy, that particular principle appears to have taken on such major - almost god-like proportions  - that IMO it has become detrimental to the principles of the right to the presumption of innocence and also the right not to have your reputation trashed and your character assassinated by all and sundry.

Furthermore - I do not understand why a judicial system would not see anything wrong in allowing a panel of 3 judges to include a judge who had already found in favour of Amaral in a previous case on the same subject.

 But there again I don't understand why a policeman who was made an arguido -  suspected of wrong-doing in his previous and only other missing child case was allowed to be in charge of another case - while that matter was unresolved..

Neither do I understand why a woman who a court found to have been the victim of torture during interrogation by officers of the PJ should still be in prison while the perpetrators of her torture remain at large.

I can't see any of the above being allowed in the UK.

With such major differences in the attitudes and culture which prevail between our two countries when it comes to Libel -  I find it difficult to believe that the McCanns will achieve justice in Portugal.

If the case had been held in this country the McCanns would have won hands down.

AIMHO

[faithlilly]

I have mixed feeling about whether an appeal by the McCanns is worth it or not.

As much as I hate injustice - It seems to me that our two countries are not just poles apart when it comes to the subject of Libel,- we're not even on the same planet.

Although I can understand PT wanting to emphasize the importance of Freedom of Expression since becoming a democracy, that particular principle appears to have taken on such major - almost god-like proportions  - that IMO it has become detrimental to the principles of the right to the presumption of innocence and also the right not to have your reputation trashed and your character assassinated by all and sundry.

Furthermore - I do not understand why a judicial system would not see anything wrong in allowing a panel of 3 judges to include a judge who had already found in favour of Amaral in a previous case on the same subject.

 But there again I don't understand why a policeman who was made an arguido -  suspected of wrong-doing in his previous and only other missing child case was allowed to be in charge of another case - while that matter was unresolved..

Neither do I understand why a woman who a court found to have been the victim of torture during interrogation by officers of the PJ should still be in prison while the perpetrators of her torture remain at large.

I can't see any of the above being allowed in the UK.

With such major differences in the attitudes and culture which prevail between our two countries when it comes to Libel -  I find it difficult to believe that the McCanns will achieve justice in Portugal.

If the case had been held in this country the McCanns would have won hands down.

AIMHO

Justice UK style. Justice has already been served in the country the alleged libel occurred.

[John]

I have mixed feeling about whether an appeal by the McCanns is worth it or not.

I think they have to see this through despite the inevitable.

[John]

As much as I hate injustice - It seems to me that our two countries are not just poles apart when it comes to the subject of Libel,- we're not even on the same planet.

Although I can understand PT wanting to emphasize the importance of Freedom of Expression since becoming a democracy, that particular principle appears to have taken on such major - almost god-like proportions  - that IMO it has become detrimental to the principles of the right to the presumption of innocence and also the right not to have your reputation trashed and your character assassinated by all and sundry.

Furthermore - I do not understand why a judicial system would not see anything wrong in allowing a panel of 3 judges to include a judge who had already found in favour of Amaral in a previous case on the same subject.

I think people sometimes forget that although Portugal and England have had much in common over the centuries that they are two entirely different cultures with beliefs and Laws to match.

A judge is entitled to his or her own view on matters.  Previous decisions should have little or no bearing on current ones.

[Mr Gray]

I have mixed feeling about whether an appeal by the McCanns is worth it or not.

As much as I hate injustice - It seems to me that our two countries are not just poles apart when it comes to the subject of Libel,- we're not even on the same planet.

Although I can understand PT wanting to emphasize the importance of Freedom of Expression since becoming a democracy, that particular principle appears to have taken on such major - almost god-like proportions  - that IMO it has become detrimental to the principles of the right to the presumption of innocence and also the right not to have your reputation trashed and your character assassinated by all and sundry.

Furthermore - I do not understand why a judicial system would not see anything wrong in allowing a panel of 3 judges to include a judge who had already found in favour of Amaral in a previous case on the same subject.

 But there again I don't understand why a policeman who was made an arguido -  suspected of wrong-doing in his previous and only other missing child case was allowed to be in charge of another case - while that matter was unresolved..

Neither do I understand why a woman who a court found to have been the victim of torture during interrogation by officers of the PJ should still be in prison while the perpetrators of her torture remain at large.

I can't see any of the above being allowed in the UK.

With such major differences in the attitudes and culture which prevail between our two countries when it comes to Libel -  I find it difficult to believe that the McCanns will achieve justice in Portugal.

If the case had been held in this country the McCanns would have won hands down.

AIMHO

I think they have every intention of going to the ECHR where I believe they do have a case...to do this they have to appeal to the supreme court first

[faithlilly]

I think they have to see this through despite the inevitable.

Why do they have to see it through ?

[John]

But there again I don't understand why a policeman who was made an arguido -  suspected of wrong-doing in his previous and only other missing child case was allowed to be in charge of another case - while that matter was unresolved..

Neither do I understand why a woman who a court found to have been the victim of torture during interrogation by officers of the PJ should still be in prison while the perpetrators of her torture remain at large.

I can't see any of the above being allowed in the UK.

With such major differences in the attitudes and culture which prevail between our two countries when it comes to Libel -  I find it difficult to believe that the McCanns will achieve justice in Portugal.

If the case had been held in this country the McCanns would have won hands down.

AIMHO

Amaral was an arguido because a complaint had been made against him.  If every policeman who ever had a complaint registered against him was suspended we wouldn't have much of a police force left.  In countries like Portugal and Spain it is a common tactic for criminals to register a complaint against police officers, part of the course I'm afraid.

Leonor Cipriano was indeed tortured but she is also convicted of murder by her own admission BEFORE being tortured.

The McCanns chose to raise the damages claim in Portugal after taking counsel from Mr Duarte.  They achieved part of what they sought at the trial but the Appeal Court has reversed that decision.  That is the Law in Portugal.

If they want to raise an action in the UK they are free to do so but it is unlikely to succeed since the events were instigated and played out in Portugal.

[Mr Gray]

Amaral was an arguido because a complaint had been made against him.  If every policeman who ever had a complaint registered against him was suspended we wouldn't have much of a police force left.  In countries like Portugal and Spain it is a common tactic for criminals to register a complaint against police officers, part of the course I'm afraid.

Leonor Cipriano was indeed tortured but she is also convicted of murder by her own admission BEFORE being tortured.

sorry john but no real evidence has ever been produced to confirm cipriano's confession before being tortured. The only statement to support that was made by the lawyer defending the accused PJ officers and he can hardly be described as impartial

[John]

Why do they have to see it through ?

Because as davel correctly pointed out, litigants have to exhaust the domestic courts first.

[Mr Gray]

if the Mccanns cannot win in the courts perhaps they will answer the accusations in a book...as amaral has done.

They will have a lot of ammunition...pictures of cipriano for starters....his poor detective work in the case...his total misunderstanding of the forensics.......would be very interesting

[John]

sorry john but no real evidence has ever been produced to confirm cipriano's confession before being tortured. The only statement to support that was made by the lawyer defending the accused PJ officers and he can hardly be described as impartial

I'm not getting into this on this thread other than to state that Leonor told police initially that she had an argument with Joana after she returned from the shop. Return witnessed by a neighbour. She admitted to causing her death by hitting her head on a wall. Human blood found on wall and elsewhere.  This was why she was indicted and remanded in custody,

[faithlilly]

Because as davel correctly pointed out, litigants have to exhaust the domestic courts first.

Only if they have a chance of overturning the previous ruling.

[Mr Gray]

I'm not getting into this on this thread other than to state that Leonor told vpolice iniutiually she had an argument with Joana after she returned from the shop. She admitted to causing her death by hitting Cher head on a wall.  This cwas cwhy she was indicted and remanded in custody,

according to amaral john......as you say this is not the thread to discuss this.....it has been discussed at length and I have seen no real evidence that cipriano confessed before torture despite asking the question many times...children do not die from hitting their heads on walls

[John]

Only if they have a chance of overturning the previous ruling.

One cannot appeal to the ECHR unless all avenues have been explored in your home country and that includes the Supreme Court.