Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.

[stephen25000]

And so is yours.

No Eleanor.

Wrong again.

The judgement was made on Portuguese Law.

[Eleanor]

No Eleanor.

Wrong again.

The judgement was made on Portuguese Law.

You ignore anything that doesn't suit you.

So which part of The Judgement do you agree with?

[stephen25000]

You ignore anything that doesn't suit you.

So which part of The Judgement do you agree with?

Have you read it through ?

[Eleanor]

Have you read it through ?

Do I need to?

[ShiningInLuz]

That Amaral breached judicial secrecy was ignored (in the appeal-court ruling). 

It shouldn't have been.

Had Amaral not breached judicial secrecy, the first-instance judge would have handed down, at least a roughly similar judgement as the appeal-court judges (certainly in favour of Amaral rather than the McCanns).

I didn't wade through the first judgement.  Did that mention in any way, shape or form a breach of judicial secrecy?

If it did, I would expect to see the issue covered in the appeal, and we both seem to be saying it was not.

If it didn't, I fail to see how the appeal court should be required to introduce fresh evidence.

By the way, I am not saying there was no breach of judicial secrecy.  The ability to produce the information and drawings means, IMO, Amaral was either a naughty boy and took files home, or someone on the case passed the relevant parts to Amaral (breach 1) and Amaral then passed part or all of this onward for further work (breach 2), and probably others were involved (editor, drawings production - breach 3).  IMO.

I happen to think that if a criminal prosecution was brought, a number of parties would be found guilty.  It could be the authorities felt it was not worth the effort (I don't know what the penalty is - it could be one of those slap on the wrist things) or whether someone just had enough of the stick that the Portuguese system was taking and decided to turn a blind eye.  Again, IMO.

If you've read the book, an early part seems to make it clear the book would have been published even if the case was open, though that could be a case of trying to avoid prosecution.

[Eleanor]

I didn't wade through the first judgement.  Did that mention in any way, shape or form a breach of judicial secrecy?

If it did, I would expect to see the issue covered in the appeal, and we both seem to be saying it was not.

If it didn't, I fail to see how the appeal court should be required to introduce fresh evidence.

By the way, I am not saying there was no breach of judicial secrecy.  The ability to produce the information and drawings means, IMO, Amaral was either a naughty boy and took files home, or someone on the case passed the relevant parts to Amaral (breach 1) and Amaral then passed part or all of this onward for further work (breach 2), and probably others were involved (editor, drawings production - breach 3).  IMO.

I happen to think that if a criminal prosecution was brought, a number of parties would be found guilty.  It could be the authorities felt it was not worth the effort (I don't know what the penalty is - it could be one of those slap on the wrist things) or whether someone just had enough of the stick that the Portuguese system was taking and decided to turn a blind eye.  Again, IMO.

If you've read the book, an early part seems to make it clear the book would have been published even if the case was open, though that could be a case of trying to avoid prosecution.

It all seemed like a breach to me at the time.

Would The McCanns have got a slap on the wrist?

[ShiningInLuz]

It all seemed like a breach to me at the time.

Would The McCanns have got a slap on the wrist?

As I said, I have no idea what the punishment is.

Equally, if the McCanns had revealed confidential details of the investigation in a book published very, very shortly after the case was archived, I cannot tell if action would be taken against them.

I would need to know whether a criminal prosecution against Amaral was considered, who made the decision, and why such a decision was reached, and I have no info on all of that.

[Eleanor]

As I said, I have no idea what the punishment is.

Equally, if the McCanns had revealed confidential details of the investigation in a book published very, very shortly after the case was archived, I cannot tell if action would be taken against them.

I would need to know whether a criminal prosecution against Amaral was considered, who made the decision, and why such a decision was reached, and I have no info on all of that.

We were all regaled at great length of what could happen to The McCanns, should they dare.  Two years in prison, I do believe.

And then absolutely nothing when Amaral was obviously being fed information which he then used in his book.  Certainly things he could not have known from his time in charge.

So what on earth was going on?

[Benice]

It all seemed like a breach to me at the time.

Would The McCanns have got a slap on the wrist?

IIRC the McCanns and their friends were left in no doubt by the PJ that breaking the secrecy laws could result in a 2 year prison sentence.   Hence the disgraceful smear campaign against them in the PJ press was able to continue ad nauseam without any opportunity for the McCanns to counter it.

I believe the same situation prevailed in the Cipriano case - so by the time she went to court a baying mob was waiting for her - as a result of what they had been reading in the Press.

AIMO

[Eleanor]

IIRC the McCanns and their friends were left in no doubt by the PJ that breaking the secrecy laws could result in a 2 year prison sentence.   Hence the disgraceful smear campaign against them in the PJ press was able to continue ad nauseam without any opportunity for the McCanns to counter it.

I believe the same situation prevailed in the Cipriano case - so by the time she went to court a baying mob was waiting for her - as a result of what they had been reading in the Press.

AIMO

Trial by Public Opinion.  Portugal seems to be quite good at that.

[stephen25000]

Do I need to?

How can you comment on the judgement unless you have read and understood it's implications ?

[stephen25000]

Trial by Public Opinion.  Portugal seems to be quite good at that.

.................and what were the mccann supporters, and the UK press doing to Amaral ?

On a certain forum, , they were counting down the time to his imprisonment at one stage.

[ferryman]

I didn't wade through the first judgement.  Did that mention in any way, shape or form a breach of judicial secrecy?

If it did, I would expect to see the issue covered in the appeal, and we both seem to be saying it was not.

If it didn't, I fail to see how the appeal court should be required to introduce fresh evidence.

By the way, I am not saying there was no breach of judicial secrecy.  The ability to produce the information and drawings means, IMO, Amaral was either a naughty boy and took files home, or someone on the case passed the relevant parts to Amaral (breach 1) and Amaral then passed part or all of this onward for further work (breach 2), and probably others were involved (editor, drawings production - breach 3).  IMO.

I happen to think that if a criminal prosecution was brought, a number of parties would be found guilty.  It could be the authorities felt it was not worth the effort (I don't know what the penalty is - it could be one of those slap on the wrist things) or whether someone just had enough of the stick that the Portuguese system was taking and decided to turn a blind eye.  Again, IMO.

If you've read the book, an early part seems to make it clear the book would have been published even if the case was open, though that could be a case of trying to avoid prosecution.

Nonetheless, it is understood, in the decision under appeal, that because the 1st appellant, Gonçalo Amaral, was, until October 2, 2007, the coordinator of the criminal investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, he was, after his retirement on the 1st of July, 2008, subject to the duties of secrecy and reserve that are imposed to the employees that serve the Polícia Judiciária.

 

And, under such terms, although the introductory note in the book invokes personal reasons, in a situation of conflict with the rights to a good name and reputation of the subjects of the appeal, the appellant [Gonçalo Amaral] could not benefit, faced with the results of the investigation, of a broad and full freedom of expression – and thus his conduct would be unlawful, under article 484 of the Civil Code.

 

From what was above said about this matter, it is clearly understood that such argumentation cannot be sustained.

 

In effect, and independently of the reasons invoked by the appellant for the publication, it is hardly understandable that an employee, even more a retired one, would have to keep said duties of secrecy and reserve, thus being limited in the exercise of his right to an opinion, concerning the interpretation of facts that were already made public by the judiciary authority, and widely debated (in fact, largely by initiative of the intervenients themselves) in the national and international media.

 

Amaral breached judicial secrecy in writing his book and getting it prepared for sale (so close following the archiving).

[Miss Taken Identity]

It all seemed like a breach to me at the time.

Would The McCanns have got a slap on the wrist?

No, they got to leave behind their daughter with a shed load of money with not as much as a thank you for the people who were trying to find their daughter, with their reputations as great parents well discussed in the press in the UK.

So, all in all, not bad  for what they did.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Trial by Public Opinion.  Portugal seems to be quite good at that.

so is the UK a real slaughter job was done on a community,country,police force. AND in particular Sr Amaral.