Author Topic: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?  (Read 415084 times)

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Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #960 on: September 02, 2014, 10:03:58 PM »
Why not?  Surely an abductor would want to be as certain as possible that he wasn't going to bump into people when he left 5A.

You can't make all the pieces fit.

We have.
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #961 on: September 02, 2014, 10:05:00 PM »
You can't make all the pieces fit.

We have.

you haven't

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #962 on: September 02, 2014, 10:28:50 PM »
That wouldn't happen in a million years.
In my opinion your theory of what happened that night and the timeline you provided is far, far less likely.  I'm pretty certain most sensible people would agree with me.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #963 on: September 02, 2014, 10:37:02 PM »
Don't take my word for it..this is professor David Barclay..




JS: Professor Dave Barclay is a leading international forensic scientist. He developed best practice in the UK. As well as the Omagh bombing, he's advised in 225 cold case murders in the last 6 years. From the photos he concludes the McCanns would not have been able to see an intruder from their restaurant table. But would an intruder have avoided being spotted by one of Madeleine's parents or their friends on their regular visits to Madeleine's bedroom?

 

DB: It would be easy for someone to get in and out of there without arousing any attention.

 

CS: And with the insecurity, we know that the time required to go in there, remove a child... you could be in and out in less than a minute.



So there's there's the experts opinion and then theres "skunk man's " opinion... I know which one I'm going with

Dear old Prof Barclay also said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-evidence-doesnt-add-up-514328

A team of British crime specialists who have scrutinised the Madeleine McCann case claim there are inconsistencies in her parents' version of events.

The retired experts believe there is a question mark over Kate's response when she discovered the four-year-old was missing.

Forensic scientist Professor David Barclay, part of the four-man team who reviewed the case for Channel Four's Dispatches show, said: "We examined all of the available evidence and the conclusion we came to was that there appeared to be some significant inconsistencies.

"One thing we looked for was any sign of 'staging', the term we use for the actions of someone who has committed a crime and wants to 'stage it' to appear someone else has done it.

"The first words apparently spoken by Kate McCann when she discovered Madeleine had vanished were significant. She is supposed to have said 'They've taken her, they've taken her' - which seems a strange choice of phrase.

"I don't think that would have been my first reaction if my child had gone missing."

Prof Barclay also questioned the McCanns' claims that an abductor got into their Praia da Luz holiday flat through the back shutters.

He said: "We checked the scene of the crime and it struck us immediately how unlikely it would be for anyone to try and access the apartment through the back windows. The shutters there were firmly shut and couldn't be opened and the car park behind the flat was overlooked.

"We're not saying it was impossible to have gained entry that way, but with all of our collected years of experience to us it seemed highly unlikely and a very implausible scenario.

"It could be that claim is consistent with staging, but without full knowledge of all of the facts in the case it would be impossible to say for sure."

Prof Barclay visited the crime scene along with ex-Detective Chief Superintendent Chris Stevenson, the man who caught Soham killer Ian Huntley and psychological profiler David Canter.

The will seen on tonight's show visiting key sites and seeing footage of the police in action.

Prof Barclay, 62, added: "There has been a tendency to criticise the Portuguese police but on the whole they did a pretty good job.

"However, they made two big mistakes. Firstly, they did not seal of the crime scene anywhere nearly quick enough. Secondly, in my opinion they were not aggressive enough with the McCanns in the first stage of the investigation.

"It is actually for the parents' benefit in cases like this that the police tackle them robustly and demand a comprehensive account of their movements during the relevant timeframe."
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #964 on: September 02, 2014, 11:29:45 PM »
Dear old Prof Barclay also said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-evidence-doesnt-add-up-514328

A team of British crime specialists who have scrutinised the Madeleine McCann case claim there are inconsistencies in her parents' version of events.

The retired experts believe there is a question mark over Kate's response when she discovered the four-year-old was missing.

Forensic scientist Professor David Barclay, part of the four-man team who reviewed the case for Channel Four's Dispatches show, said: "We examined all of the available evidence and the conclusion we came to was that there appeared to be some significant inconsistencies.

"One thing we looked for was any sign of 'staging', the term we use for the actions of someone who has committed a crime and wants to 'stage it' to appear someone else has done it.

"The first words apparently spoken by Kate McCann when she discovered Madeleine had vanished were significant. She is supposed to have said 'They've taken her, they've taken her' - which seems a strange choice of phrase.

"I don't think that would have been my first reaction if my child had gone missing."

Prof Barclay also questioned the McCanns' claims that an abductor got into their Praia da Luz holiday flat through the back shutters.

He said: "We checked the scene of the crime and it struck us immediately how unlikely it would be for anyone to try and access the apartment through the back windows. The shutters there were firmly shut and couldn't be opened and the car park behind the flat was overlooked.

"We're not saying it was impossible to have gained entry that way, but with all of our collected years of experience to us it seemed highly unlikely and a very implausible scenario.

"It could be that claim is consistent with staging, but without full knowledge of all of the facts in the case it would be impossible to say for sure."

Prof Barclay visited the crime scene along with ex-Detective Chief Superintendent Chris Stevenson, the man who caught Soham killer Ian Huntley and psychological profiler David Canter.

The will seen on tonight's show visiting key sites and seeing footage of the police in action.

Prof Barclay, 62, added: "There has been a tendency to criticise the Portuguese police but on the whole they did a pretty good job.

"However, they made two big mistakes. Firstly, they did not seal of the crime scene anywhere nearly quick enough. Secondly, in my opinion they were not aggressive enough with the McCanns in the first stage of the investigation.

"It is actually for the parents' benefit in cases like this that the police tackle them robustly and demand a comprehensive account of their movements during the relevant timeframe."

Information from a press report dated ... October 18th 2007 ... is perhaps a tad out of date.  Events have progressed somewhat since then.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 03:12:06 PM by Mr Moderator »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #965 on: September 30, 2014, 12:33:28 AM »
Raising the shutters with the strap is loud even if done carefully. Please note this stage is done by reaching in after sliding the window open. Therefore the full noise of the shutter mechanism enters the room. I recommend the video by Heriberto, he does this stage (reaching in and operating the strap) fairly gently, yet the noise inside the room, as you can hear when you listen to his video, is very loud.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 03:10:25 PM by Mr Moderator »

Offline sadie

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #966 on: September 30, 2014, 11:06:53 AM »
Raising the shutters with the strap is loud even if done carefully. Please note this stage is done by reaching in after sliding the window open. Therefore the full noise of the shutter mechanism enters the room. I recommend the video by Heriberto, he does this stage (reaching in and operating the strap) fairly gently, yet the noise inside the room, as you can hear when you listen to his video, is very loud.
I appreciate what you are saying Pegasus, BUT in one of the statements (sorry dont know which one but maybe Gerrys?) it says that the shutters were open unevenly.  That equates to them having been pushed up from outside, rather than being strap pulled up.  It also states that they were open about a hands width ... and I cant remember whether that was at the smaller gap end or the wider gap end.


It is quite possible that the pulley mechanism wasn't used at all.  That the shutters were lifted a little whilst the window was closed.  Then the sound would be minimal within the room.  As you say sliding the window open would be very quiet.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #967 on: September 30, 2014, 11:12:11 AM »
I appreciate what you are saying Pegasus, BUT in one of the statements (sorry dont know which one but maybe Gerrys?) it says that the shutters were open unevenly.  That equates to them having been pushed up from outside, rather than being strap pulled up.  It also states that they were open about a hands width ... and I cant remember whether that was at the smaller gap end or the wider gap end.


It is quite possible that the pulley mechanism wasn't used at all.  That the shutters were lifted a little whilst the window was closed.  Then the sound would be minimal within the room.  As you say sliding the window open would be very quiet.


I believe for the shutters to stay open the strap inside would have to have been used.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline sadie

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #968 on: September 30, 2014, 11:44:57 AM »
I believe for the shutters to stay open the strap inside would have to have been used.

I wonder, if they were jammed at an angle?  If the pulley was used then they would have gone up smoothly and horizontally.  They would not have been at an angle.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #969 on: September 30, 2014, 11:51:47 AM »
I believe for the shutters to stay open the strap inside would have to have been used.

Very true, the only way shutters of this type stay up is if the strap is pulled engaging the ratchet mechanism.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

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Offline Angelo222

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #970 on: September 30, 2014, 11:54:53 AM »
I wonder, if they were jammed at an angle?  If the pulley was used then they would have gone up smoothly and horizontally.  They would not have been at an angle.

No because didn't Gerry push them up and down from the outside immediately after Kate alerted?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Brietta

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #971 on: September 30, 2014, 11:59:32 AM »
No because didn't Gerry push them up and down from the outside immediately after Kate alerted?

The position of Dr Kate McCann's fingerprints confirm that she leaned out which would seem to imply that the shutter was raised to at least above her head height when she first discovered them to be open.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Angelo222

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #972 on: September 30, 2014, 03:05:27 PM »
The position of Dr Kate McCann's fingerprints confirm that she leaned out which would seem to imply that the shutter was raised to at least above her head height when she first discovered them to be open.

It does say in the files that the shutter was fully up. If they are raised slowly they make little sound.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 03:12:14 PM by Mr Moderator »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline sadie

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #973 on: October 01, 2014, 12:44:53 AM »
It does say in the files that the shutter was fully up. If they are raised slowly they make little sound.
Somewhere, Angelo, it says that the shutter was raised at an angle with the gap [ I think at the narrower end] being about a hands width.  I feel sure of that.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #974 on: October 01, 2014, 01:04:54 AM »
Somewhere, Angelo, it says that the shutter was raised at an angle with the gap [ I think at the narrower end] being about a hands width.  I feel sure of that.

Then you can provide a cite sadie ?
 
The only two instances I remember the blinds being described as 'at an angle' is whe Diane Webster tried to open them on May 3rd and they twisted and when reporters where caught trying to raise the shutter and they again twisted and hung obliquely from from their casing.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?