Author Topic: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.  (Read 48396 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2013, 11:42:47 AM »
When it was DISAPPEARANCE reported ?

Firstly by th café owner early morning of Monday when the searching was in process by the family
15 sep 2004 cm
 "She is a young girl quiet, docile and very understanding",she stressed to the CM Ofélia Zepherin, owner of the coffee shop where the child was fetching the milk and the cans of tuna, before disappearing (two people say she was seen next to the church) on the way back to the house, pointing out that "in the village everyone is worried about it and with fear of what might have happened to her, even because you never noted a case like this".  Ofélia Zepherin helped, in fact, the family trying to find the child, on the night in which she gave the disappearance, retracing the surroundings, including searching for to find her among the people that were at the party that was happening in the village. As the searches had no results, on the same night was called the GNR. Other inhabitants pointed out, however, the desire for everything to be clarified, so that the quiet is back to the village.
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/crianca-desaparecida


IN THE 2006 APPEAL
arguida didn’t inform the police authorities about anything, despite there being GNR officers on duty in Figueira, because a popular fair called “Mussels Party” was taking place, and it was the third person (NN) that did it by telephone, at around 0.44 a.m. on the 13th of September, when she heard that the arguida hadn’t done so yet, and it was following said telephone call that the BB ended up talking to GNR officers near the church in Figueira;”.

13 oct 2005 DN
SANDRA FRANGANITO
The military of GNR that received the complaint on tour told us that Leonor reached between 10h00 and 11h00 on Monday, the morning following the crime .along with the sister, but she did not come to enter. The mother of joana attended the disappearance, gave a picture, and said to the soldier of the GNR, had not made any reference to the car or the suspected family.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2013, 11:45:44 AM »
Purchased food in house
Nothing that I can see in evidence either the trial or appeal 2006
Or statements says that the food was at home or the receipt

If anyone has evidence to the contrary I would be grateful for direction
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2013, 11:48:45 AM »
Shoes ?
13 oct 2005 DN
In court                  (different to appeal …..below)
Yesterday morning, after listening to the younger sister of the stepfather of joanana describe all of the clothes and shoes that she found in the house of the young girl, in Figueira, a student Dinamene Silva, of 20 years, has asked for the floor. " Leonor said to her that  joana had gone out with the red sandals, same as pamphlet  put on the streets , “but you saw these sandals  at home. And did you not confronted  Leonor?" Sara, the witness, hesitated and replied: "Did not."
                                 see appeal….
The appeal 20 april 2006The witness BB1 , sister of II, On Monday morning (day 13), around 14h, the witness was watching  BB. At home where was also  AA and II. At that time  BB said to her how it was it that  CC was clothed and on the sidewalk when she disappeared. Later, the witness has been faced with the shoes that BB had said that  CC had worn and has confronted  BB with this,  she responded  then that CC could not have changed to Shoes and that had worn the flip flops. However, subsequently, the witness found one of flip flops underneath the sofa in the room and another chinela in the room. She sought the footwear of CC and found at home all shoes, sandals and flip flops that she wore in this spring.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2013, 12:02:18 PM »
Cleaned the house with paraffin etc  When ??????????
It was purchased on 18th sep 2004(oil etc) and found in her bag at the prison  Although she had already cleaned the house before the disappearance, the her mother in law sent her for oil and wire to clean the Ticks off the door, however   In the statement below a date was not given for receipt


FROM APPEAL 2006
 Confirmed that the defendant eonor had in her possession when she reached the jail of Odemira, the receipt from the purchase of 1 liter of petroleum and a scourer of wire, that if she tried to undo, and which has been delivered to P. J. by Director of E. P. - Confirmed that the receipt is the fls. 876. Even mentioned that followed the trail of a Moroccan citizen who could have taken  CC, according to information of the suspect BB, but came to find out that at the time of disappearance of  CC this individual was in France.

LOURDES DAVID In court trial

The mother of stepfather of joana described the cleaning, with oil, which has been carried out - and in which she cooperated - in the house of Figueira, to finish with the Ticks, but said that the same were  on the outside of the residence, in particular near the door.
"The ticks appeared some days after the joana had disappeared, when already had been journalists and policemen. she said  Leonor  was a disgrace and that the house had to be cleaned of worms".


LOURDES DAVID  at the appeal 2006

AA5
The witness AA5, mother of II,
she noticed that there were ticks on the door of the house and a pillar and
old BB to go buy cresol for the kill.  Leonor bought oil, (18 apr 2004) saying that there was no cresol, and itself was the witness aa5 who proceeded to cleaning, outside the home, with the mop.

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2013, 12:14:27 PM »
THE BIG CAR AND GERMANS was it ever investgated????????????????????????????????????????
Sep 12 2005 DN

On the day that completes a year about the disappearance of joanana Cipriano, eight years old, from the village of Figueira, in the municipality of Portimao - where she lived with her mother, stepfather and two brothers also minors - remains a mystery about what, in fact, has happened to the child. Abduction, sale or murder? The answer is a mystery.

The last track that will have been advanced two months ago to family members of joana, by an individual in Lagos, supposedly would indicate that the girl "was carried in a large car which was seen  on the street where she lived" and in which "were seen, once in a while, the Germans".  A situation that is already "the knowledge of an inspector of the Judicial Police (PJ) of Faro.

Curiously, this agent has--if proved elusive to be approached about the "case joana" by long-standing friends and journalists, limiting themselves to say that, as is natural, can not speak on the matter. This happens at a time when several people insist there, in the village of Figueira, "everyone speechless, who not one speaks for fear".
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Eleanor

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2013, 12:14:36 PM »
Ticks can be common place in some areas.  I once had to deal with an infestation.  They climb up the walls and get everywhere.  And there were never any dead bodies in my house.
Petrol is known to deter them.

Although God know why such a fuss should be made about this.  Just another piece of circumstantial evidence that has no basis in fact.

Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2013, 12:26:13 PM »
Ticks can be common place in some areas.  I once had to deal with an infestation.  They climb up the walls and get everywhere.  And there were never any dead bodies in my house.
Petrol is known to deter them.

Although God know why such a fuss should be made about this.  Just another piece of circumstantial evidence that has no basis in fact.

That is very true Eleanor. fresh meat, Pigs will also attract them, or any animal really. When we were in Tangiers they washed the floor tiles with what smelled like paraffin
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2013, 12:27:27 PM »
The Saw ……………………………….....


7 may 2005 DN

"A journalist, when interviewing me, suggested that I would have helped to cut up the body, with material that I not even  have. AND he offered a chupa-chupa to my son, two years old, to compel him to say that joana had been beaten by the mother or by uncle and she was with  blood on the head."
7 may 2005
http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006701&especial=Caso j


14 Oct 2005 DN
In court
Stepfather of joanana back today to testify to help clarify whether there was or not in your home cutting instruments that John said the Judicial have used to cut the body of the young girl. We only lack hear two more defence witnesses and the forensic physician.
.................................................................................... Antonio Leandro, the stepfather of joana, heard yesterday in Court of Portimao, will return today to sit in the seat of witnesses by determination of the panel of judges, who wants to see clarified all details about the cutting instruments that John Cyprian says have used to cut the body of the young girl of eight years. The order of the juvenile court judge Alda Casimiro was read at the end of the afternoon, after having heard the inspectors of the PJ that investigated the case and several hours of technical discussion about blood, ticks and a cabinet where you have been hiding the body, into three pieces.
At issue is the need to ascertain whether there were or not at home of joana the two cutting instruments that, in statements to PJ in phase of investigation, John Cyprian said had been used to cut the body of the child: a knife black handle, a saw cut metal. As none of the two defendants - John and Leonor are accused of murder qualified, desecration and concealment of cadaver - provides explanations, the doubt can only be clarified by the companion of Leonor.
One of the inspectors of the PJ - the Fight Against Vandalism - said that the tools, used by Leandro on work on scrap, stayed in home at Da Figueira and that disappeared after the crime



14 Oct 2005 DN
 Saw again
Court trial

The stepfather of joana, Leandro, also gave a brief testimony, recognizing a keyhole saw used for manual jobs, equal to the one that I used to have at home. However, said ,he did not know where it is now the said instrument.
THE DRAWING OF A SAW
FROM APPEAL 2006
DD
The witness DD, inspector of P. J. , confirmed that having the apprehension of a bag that contained clothes of defendant AA Questioned about the drawings of a drill and a saw that are together the fls. 1885 of autos, stated that such drawings were made by the defendant AA, in the presence of the witness, it competed with the same to depict the objects that would have been used to carry out the rendering of CC. The witness was present at the self of reconstitution of rendering plant next to autos the fls. 2100 ss, whose content has confirmed, clarifying that the accused is that he chose the cutting instruments more similar with those he had used and that the forensic physician, who was present, confirmed that the same were appropriate for the act; also confirmed that the defendant has indicated how he proceeded to the rendering plant, helped by sister (in photographs represented by an agent), as well as the time it took, and that the forensic physician stated that the correct way to carry out the cuts and that the time required; further confirmed that the accused reconstituted also how to put parts of the body in bags and the rest In the compartments of the ark, which was precisely the same cabinet that was in casa Da Figueira and that had been seized. Then he said  to witness that soon after the reconstitution went to Figueira to browse the cutting instruments that the defendant AA said they used, but they were not found in the house, by which asked  II about this and he confirmed to him that he had a saw  and which had not given account when it had disappeared. The witness also stated having measured the distance from the home of BB "Pastry C. .." and that the result was about 840 meters, which travelled on foot, in normal step, takes around 6 minutes to go.

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2013, 12:45:29 PM »
SEXUAL ABUSE and blood
well I don't think a man can work n scrap and not get cuts....transferred to switch etc
and possibly the fridge. I have drawers in one of my freezers and always found it easier to take it out when I was looking for something Same with fridge salad drawer

The explanation for the semen is below, but I wonder why it wasn't tested?



On the other hand, were detected "lightweight traces of blood" in "switch mirror and at the foot of the sofa" of the house where  lived the child with the mother, stepfather and two brothers also minors. In the mattress of the bed and the bedspread of joana "discovered traces of semen and not detected traces of blood", describes the same document.

However, the woman who lives cohabit with another uncle of joana, Nelson Cyprian, assumed the Judicial Police that "when he went to the house of Leonor and stayed in bed of joana, kept one or two sexual relations with his companion and without condom".  Such a situation could help to clarify how it is that, on some occasions, was  sperm on the bed of Joana
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2013, 12:47:11 PM »
Ticks can be common place in some areas.  I once had to deal with an infestation.  They climb up the walls and get everywhere.  And there were never any dead bodies in my house.
Petrol is known to deter them.

Although God know why such a fuss should be made about this.  Just another piece of circumstantial evidence that has no basis in fact.

My understanding of this is that Leandro's mother (who incidentally testified that Leonor always kept her house clean and well kept), having presumably stopped to visit on her way back from whatever "SIC" is, was the one who noticed that there were bugs (whatever they actually were) on the door of the house and on a pillar and suggested to Leonor to go and buy some "creolina" to kill them. If "creolina" is creosote, I'm not aware that there are colourless varieties (although there may be). If not, it would seem unlikely to suggest splashing it inside the house. I have yet to find an indication in her testimony that the area involved the inside of the house. According to her stepmother, Leonor went shopping for some but couldn't find any and bought petrol* instead. This petrol* was only bought on 18 September. And it was the stepmother who used it on the outside of the house with a mop of some kind.

* It's not quite clear what this "petróleo" actually is. Petrol? Paraffin? Kerosene?

A testemunha AA5, mãe de II, declarou que a CC esteve em sua casa desde 5ª feira a domingo, dia 12 de Setembro, indo para a Figueira com a mãe pelas 18 h. Nesse dia à noite (já estava deitada) o II telefonou-lhe a perguntar se estava lá a CC, tendo a testemunha respondido que a CC tinha ido com a mãe, ao que o II a informou que a CC tinha desaparecido. Disse ainda a testemunha que a arguida BB tinha a casa sempre limpa e tratava bem da casa. Num dia, depois de lá ter ido a SIC, reparou que havia carraças à porta de casa e num pilar e disse à BB para ela ir comprar creolina para as matar. A BB comprou petróleo, dizendo que não havia creolina, e foi a própria testemunha que procedeu à limpeza, no exterior da casa, com a esfregona.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 12:56:21 PM by Carana »

Offline Eleanor

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2013, 12:51:00 PM »
That is very true Eleanor. fresh meat, Pigs will also attract them, or any animal really. When we were in Tangiers they washed the floor tiles with what smelled like paraffin

I once pulled a tick out of the back of my son's neck.  And I used to lie in bed at night and count them crawling up the walls.
Petrol or parafin in relatively large quantities is the only way to deal with them if you don't want to leave the house while they fumigate it at great expense.

Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2013, 12:51:50 PM »
My understanding of this is that Leandro's mother (who incidentally testified that Leonor always kept her house clean and well kept), having presumably stopped to visit on her way back from whatever "SIC" is, was the one who noticed that there were bugs (whatever they actually were) on the door of the house and on a pillar and suggested to Leonor to go and buy some "creolina" to kill them. If "creolina" is creosote, I'm not aware that there are colourless varieties (although there may be). If not, it would seem unlikely to suggest splashing it inside the house. I have yet to find an indication in her testimony that the area involved the inside of the house. According to her stepmother, Leonor went shopping for some but couldn't find any and bought petrol instead. This petrol was only bought on 18 September. And it was the stepmother who used it on the outside of the house with a mop of some kind.




A testemunha AA5, mãe de II, declarou que a CC esteve em sua casa desde 5ª feira a domingo, dia 12 de Setembro, indo para a Figueira com a mãe pelas 18 h. Nesse dia à noite (já estava deitada) o II telefonou-lhe a perguntar se estava lá a CC, tendo a testemunha respondido que a CC tinha ido com a mãe, ao que o II a informou que a CC tinha desaparecido. Disse ainda a testemunha que a arguida BB tinha a casa sempre limpa e tratava bem da casa. Num dia, depois de lá ter ido a SIC, reparou que havia carraças à porta de casa e num pilar e disse à BB para ela ir comprar creolina para as matar. A BB comprou petróleo, dizendo que não havia creolina, e foi a própria testemunha que procedeu à limpeza, no exterior da casa, com a esfregona.

Right again Carana ,but Leonor did clean indoors with dishwasher liquid and water before child disappeared it should be in the news statements

here we go...
one of police enquiries, on 13 January, Leonor Cipriano confirmed having washed the floor "with a mop and handle, using water and dishwashing liquid".  But this "operation was made on the day on which Joana disappeared, by 28.02.2008 18:00 ", i.e. "before her disappearance", said the mother.
http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006711&especial=Caso%20Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 01:07:34 PM by anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2013, 01:03:07 PM »
The first visit by the PJ squad hunting for forensics seems to have been on 22 September, unless anyone has found anything different.

On the other hand, the actions that are part of the reconstitution act are compatible with the blood traces that were collected in the living room (it should be noted that the reconstitution takes place in the living room), as a result of the search and apprehension act that was carried out on the 22th of September 2004 (cfr. pages 173 and 233 and following), which mentions that traces were collected on the floor, near the entrance door, inside and outside, near the interior electrical switch on the right hand side of the entrance door, near the entrance on the left hand side of the sofa, on a pair of trainers belonging to MM Silva that were located between the sofas, on a mop (handle) and its bucket.

Offline Carana

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2013, 01:12:02 PM »
Right again Carana ,but Leonor did clean indoors with dishwasher liquid and water before child disappeared it should be in the news statements

The Faro PJ squad didn't examine the house until 22 September as far as I can work out (she disappeared on the 12 September, although it's often recorded as the 13th, as that's when the official report was filed).

Even if detergent had been used on areas that kids would frequently touch... why would that imply a post-massacre cleanup that no visitor to the house seemed to have noticed?

Offline Anna

Re: The trial of Leonor and João Cipriano for the murder of Joana.
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2013, 01:19:59 PM »
The Faro PJ squad didn't examine the house until 22 September as far as I can work out (she disappeared on the 12 September, although it's often recorded as the 13th, as that's when the official report was filed).

Even if detergent had been used on areas that kids would frequently touch... why would that imply a post-massacre cleanup that no visitor to the house seemed to have noticed?

Yes, She certainly had a lot of people in and out of the house in the days after Joane disappeared
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato