UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: stephen25000 on September 21, 2013, 09:33:24 AM
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Is there actual proof of this, or is it hearsay ?
The article refers to the plural, but i can only see a reference to the 3A's.
If true it is appalling behaviour of the worst kind.
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But what would constitute proof? What idiots would be stupid enough to *seriously* discuss kidnap on an open forum? It's much more likely that it's a throwaway line made once by some deluded pillock once upon a time and stored away for future emergencies such as the one the McCanns currently face in order to distract from the real issues.
I would hazard a guess that a trawl through pro-McCann fora would result in some suggestions about things that people would like to do to Amaral and/or his family, friends or pets that would be fairly unsavoury and/or criminal.
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But what would constitute proof? What idiots would be stupid enough to *seriously* discuss kidnap on an open forum? It's much more likely that it's a throwaway line made once by some deluded pillock once upon a time and stored away for future emergencies such as the one the McCanns currently face in order to distract from the real issues.
I would hazard a guess that a trawl through pro-McCann fora would result in some suggestions about things that people would like to do to Amaral and/or his family, friends or pets that would be fairly unsavoury and/or criminal.
Indeed your right C. Edwards,
Good to see you back.
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The idiots are out there and the evidence has been posted.
I choose not to publish it myself on this board ...
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The idiots are out there and the evidence has been posted.
I choose not to publish it myself on this board ...
Can you send me a link by PM please, then I will look ?
Thanks.
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Is there actual proof of this, or is it hearsay ?
The article refers to the plural, but i can only see a reference to the 3A's.
If true it is appalling behaviour of the worst kind.
I hope that at least they've presented a copy of the written complaint made at police headquarters, otherwise it is just another McConfabulation as the many we have been hearing for the last 6 years.
I was a member in 3 Arguidos from the first minute until the end and I don't recall anything like that ever being discussed.
But even if such "threats" had occurred what do they have to do with Amaral, TVI, Valentim de Carvalho & Guerra e Paz. Some bonkers go on the internet saying stupid things and persons that don't even know they did it are responsible?! If such was the case imagine how many people would be suing the McCann for menaces and damages caused by their fans.
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I hope that at least they've presented a copy of the written complaint made at police headquarters, otherwise it is just another McConfabulation as the many we have been hearing for the last 6 years.
I was a member in 3 Arguidos from the first minute until the end and I don't recall anything like that ever being discussed.
But even if such "threats" had occurred what do they have to do with Amaral, TVI, Valentim de Carvalho & Guerra e Paz. Some bonkers go on the internet saying stupid things and persons that don't even know they did it are responsible?! If such was the case imagine how many people would be suing the McCann for menaces and damages caused by their fans.
exellent post
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I hope that at least they've presented a copy of the written complaint made at police headquarters, otherwise it is just another McConfabulation as the many we have been hearing for the last 6 years.
I was a member in 3 Arguidos from the first minute until the end and I don't recall anything like that ever being discussed.
But even if such "threats" had occurred what do they have to do with Amaral, TVI, Valentim de Carvalho & Guerra e Paz. Some bonkers go on the internet saying stupid things and persons that don't even know they did it are responsible?! If such was the case imagine how many people would be suing the McCann for menaces and damages caused by their fans.
"I was a member in 3 Arguidos from the first minute until the end and I don't recall anything like that ever being discussed"
Gonc's book launched:
July 24 2008.
3A goes down the gurgler:
20th August 2009, in the fall-out from the Rothley Stalking.
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Still waiting for the proof. >@@(*&)
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But what would constitute proof? What idiots would be stupid enough to *seriously* discuss kidnap on an open forum? It's much more likely that it's a throwaway line made once by some deluded pillock once upon a time and stored away for future emergencies such as the one the McCanns currently face in order to distract from the real issues.
I would hazard a guess that a trawl through pro-McCann fora would result in some suggestions about things that people would like to do to Amaral and/or his family, friends or pets that would be fairly unsavoury and/or criminal.
plenty of idiots on the net....wasn't one supporter of Bennett so angry she suggested Kate should be shot during the London marathon....she was also spoken to by the police
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plenty of idiots on the net....wasn't one supporter of Bennett so angry she suggested Kate should be shot during the London marathon....she was also spoken to by the police
"also" indicates that you know the posters that are being accused of threatening to kidnap the twins were spoken to by the police. Care to back that up with evidence or is it more of your conjecture?
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"also" indicates that you know the posters that are being accused of threatening to kidnap the twins were spoken to by the police. Care to back that up with evidence or is it more of your conjecture?
no it doesnt
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no it doesnt
Yeah, right... "she was also spoken to by the police" is a clear effort on your behalf to imply that the alleged kidnap conspirators were spoken to by the police, hence the "also". Weasel words.
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plenty of idiots on the net....wasn't one supporter of Bennett so angry she suggested Kate should be shot during the London marathon....she was also spoken to by the police
Do you know what davel ? I am fully aware of how that 'accusation' came about and if I hadn't already been convinced of the sordid, symbiotic relationship between TM/supporters and the media, that whole grubby episode would have more than done it.
The tactics of you and your ilk, silently supported by your puppet masters, are not only deeply sinister but graphically display who really are the bullies in this case.
I simply don't know how you live with yourselves.
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Do you know what davel ? I am fully aware of how that 'accusation' came about and if I hadn't already been convinced of the sordid, symbiotic relationship between TM/supporters and the media, that whole grubby episode would have more than done it.
The tactics of you and your ilk, silently supported by your puppet masters, are not only deeply sinister but graphically display who really are the bullies in this case.
I simply don't know how you live with yourselves.
Oh I see, is the "starting pistol" excuse going to be rolled out again?
I don't know how people who post nasty things about Kate and Gerry McCann on the internet live with themselves, personally. We've seen from Mr Wright's testimony how much pain and devastation they have caused.
THEY are the bullies - people who get a kick out of hurting a shattered family.
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I don't know how people who post nasty things about Kate and Gerry McCann on the internet live with themselves, personally. We've seen from Mr Wright's testimony how much pain and devastation they have caused.
I don't see how people who post nasty things about Goncalo Amaral live with themselves. We've seen for ourselves (and not just heard 3rd party hearsay from a hired mouthpiece) the devastation it has caused him and his family.
The McCanns courting of the media (when it suits them) makes them fair game for criticism. They are, in my eyes, unfit parents and, judging by all that I've seen written by them and broadcast by them, thoroughly nasty pieces of work. "F**king tossers" one might even say.
You reap what you sow and it's just about harvest time.
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I don't see how people who post nasty things about Goncalo Amaral live with themselves. We've seen for ourselves (and not just heard 3rd party hearsay from a hired mouthpiece) the devastation it has caused him and his family.
The McCanns courting of the media (when it suits them) makes them fair game for criticism. They are, in my eyes, unfit parents and, judging by all that I've seen written by them and broadcast by them, thoroughly nasty pieces of work. "F**king tossers" one might even say.
You reap what you sow and it's just about harvest time.
"We plough the fields and scatter the good seed on the land..."
By "nasty things" do you mean the truth C Edwards? A proven liar - a corrupt cop who tried to swindle his own brother, who then tried to line his own pockets by writing a book about a couple he had never even met?
That is all the truth.
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"We plough the fields and scatter the good seed on the land..."
By "nasty things" do you mean the truth C Edwards? A proven liar - a corrupt cop who tried to swindle his own brother, who then tried to line his own pockets by writing a book about a couple he had never even met?
That is all the truth.
Oh god... and meanwhile the saintly parents were writing books to make profit from their own calamitous parenting so of course that's just fine. Amaral's personal problems - even if they are more than figments of the Pros' imaginations - make no difference whatsoever to his policing capabilities.
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Oh god... and meanwhile the saintly parents were writing books to make profit from their own calamitous parenting so of course that's just fine. Amaral's personal problems - even if they are more than figments of the Pros' imaginations - make no difference whatsoever to his policing capabilities.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
You've got it in one.
The 'supporters' hate Amaral and will say anything to try and cast a negative light on him, regardless of the fact that most of the PJ viewed the case the same as him
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The fact remains that the Mccanns (Wright) are scraping a very big dirty barrel by trying to lay blame on Mr Amaral for one or two nutters on the world wide web.... posting on a forum what was in their head.... Its plainly just laughable
Its like suing the writers of the Bible for christian fundamentalist terrorists activities
@)(++(*
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Oh god... and meanwhile the saintly parents were writing books to make profit from their own calamitous parenting so of course that's just fine. Amaral's personal problems - even if they are more than figments of the Pros' imaginations - make no difference whatsoever to his policing capabilities.
I wouldn't call a conviction for perjury a personal problem.
His policing capabilities - hmmm.... didn't know much about forensics, did he?
And as for the McCanns making a profit, it all went into the fund to find Madeleine. Not into their own pockets, like Amaral.
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I don't see how people who post nasty things about Goncalo Amaral live with themselves. We've seen for ourselves (and not just heard 3rd party hearsay from a hired mouthpiece) the devastation it has caused him and his family.
The McCanns courting of the media (when it suits them) makes them fair game for criticism. They are, in my eyes, unfit parents and, judging by all that I've seen written by them and broadcast by them, thoroughly nasty pieces of work. "F**king tossers" one might even say.
You reap what you sow and it's just about harvest time.
Dont go on about Amaral and what he has lost FGS
He lost his wife and marriage ... so some bleat.
Well he was knocking off another woman
- He threatened the husband of his mistress with a bullet thru the head
- He made suggestions / threats that something might happen to their child. Threats to a child !
- He got involved in a brawl with Marcos Corriera. Was he wearing his diamond earring at the time?
- He didn't even get a send off when he retired/ was pushed from the PJ. Bet they were glad to see him go.
- He swindled his brother out of thousands of Euros
- He was driving his daughter while drunk according to his wife
- He used to stay behind for long hours wining and dining with his mates according to contemporary reports. Went home when he felt like it
- He renagued on the agreement about his wife having their daughter over the Christmas period
- He wrote a book on the back of a missing child. Did it whilst he was still a serving officer. A book full of exagerations and bitterness against the Mccanns. A book that has near destroyed a good woman ... and her family
- He was an arguido himself and subsequently was found guilty of perjury. Eighteen months sentence; he was very lucky not to go to jail imo
Any devastation to his family was cause by GONCALO AMARAL himself. What a low life.!
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I wouldn't call a conviction for perjury a personal problem.
His policing capabilities - hmmm.... didn't know much about forensics, did he?
And as for the McCanns making a profit, it all went into the fund to find Madeleine. Not into their own pockets, like Amaral.
Oh my. It's like trying to argue with a creationist. OK, I know where you stand. You can be added to the list of those who it's not worth trying to debate with. 8((()*/
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Any devastation to his family was cause by GONCALO AMARAL himself. What a low life.!
Any devastation to their family was caused by the McCanns themselves! What low lives!
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Any devastation to their family was caused by the McCanns themselves! What low lives!
precisely.
The Mccanns chose to do what they did, so they could go out to drink and eat, without paying even the most basic redress to childcare, and Madeleine paid the price.
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precisely.
The Mccanns chose to do what they did, so they could go out to drink and eat, without paying even the most basic redress to childcare, and Madeleine paid the price.
you forget kate mccann blames
The restaraunt staff for leaving some note out visible to passing people alledgedly sayinf the tapas group were leaving their kids alone and needed the tapas bookings every night
And
mark warner did not have iron bars on all the windows!
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I wouldn't call a conviction for perjury a personal problem.
His policing capabilities - hmmm.... didn't know much about forensics, did he?
And as for the McCanns making a profit, it all went into the fund to find Madeleine. Not into their own pockets, like Amaral.
' it all went into the fund to find Madeleine '
Now precisely how much of that money has been used to 'search' for Madeleine exactly ?
Precise figures please, not cliches.
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Oh my. It's like trying to argue with a creationist. OK, I know where you stand. You can be added to the list of those who it's not worth trying to debate with. 8((()*/
LOL! Runs a mile when "difficult" facts are presented....
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LOL! Runs a mile when "difficult" facts are presented....
On that you should read my previous post. 8)-)))
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On that you should read my previous post. 8)-)))
Are you speaking for C Edwards, Stephen? It was CE who swerved the unpalatable questions, not you.
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Are you speaking for C Edwards, Stephen? It was CE who swerved the unpalatable questions, not you.
Posters here are not 24/7 so DO BE PATIENT dear im sure c edwrds will sort you rubbish asap
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The fact remains that the Mccanns (Wright) are scraping a very big dirty barrel by trying to lay blame on Mr Amaral for one or two nutters on the world wide web.... posting on a forum what was in their head.... Its plainly just laughable
Its like suing the writers of the Bible for christian fundamentalist terrorists activities
@)(++(*
I don't see what relevance the kidnapping threat made online has to with this libel trial either ... are they suggesting that the oerson who made the threat was doing so as result of Amaral's book ?
In Kate's own book (Madeleine ) she says this ( of an earth tremor in Leicester )
"At 1am on Wednesday, 27 February 2008, Gerry and I were woken suddenly from our sleep. ...... With the occasional death threat turning up in our morning mail, it is perhaps not surprising that our first instinct was to think we were being attacked"
This was before Amaral's book was published, wasn't it ? .... and they were already receiving death threats
It's all pretty despicable ( sending those kinds of messages ) but I don't see how the McCanns can suggest Amaral's book was responsible for the kind of thing that had already been going on long before his book came out
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I don't see what relevance the kidnapping threat made online has to with this libel trial either ... are they suggesting that the oerson who made the threat was doing so as result of Amaral's book ?
In Kate's own book (Madeleine ) she says this ( of an earth tremor in Leicester )
"At 1am on Wednesday, 27 February 2008, Gerry and I were woken suddenly from our sleep. ...... With the occasional death threat turning up in our morning mail, it is perhaps not surprising that our first instinct was to think we were being attacked"
This was before Amaral's book was published, wasn't it ? .... and they were already receiving death threats
It's all pretty despicable ( sending those kinds of messages ) but I don't see how the McCanns can suggest Amaral's book was responsible for the kind of thing that had already been going on long before his book came out
Its lame and shameful and Amaral and very very wicked and evil and it should and WILL come back to bite them ALL cant wait
Nite all
8**8:/:
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Any devastation to their family was caused by the McCanns themselves! What low lives!
Absolute rubbish .. and you know it.
Amaral caused his own family downfall ... and helped destroy the Mccann Family at the same time ... in his rush for money and his greed for fame.
(see sadies post @ 7.46.39 pm today)
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you forget kate mccann blames
The restaraunt staff for leaving some note out visible to passing people alledgedly sayinf the tapas group were leaving their kids alone and needed the tapas bookings every night
There's no such note in the files.
Curiously the only reference not to a note but to the register book keeper is in GA's book...
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Absolute rubbish .. and you know it.
Amaral caused his own family downfall ... and helped destroy the Mccann Family at the same time ... in his rush for money and his greed for fame.
(see sadies post @ 7.46.39 pm today)
There was so much harm caused, for sure ... most of all to Madeleine, of course
To think, none of it would have happened if they had just hired a babysitter for the evening
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"I was a member in 3 Arguidos from the first minute until the end and I don't recall anything like that ever being discussed"
Gonc's book launched:
July 24 2008.
3A goes down the gurgler:
20th August 2009, in the fall-out from the Rothley Stalking.
I'm not sure I'm right but I thought Goncalo Amaral's book wasn't translated into English until September 2009?
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There was so much harm caused, for sure ... most of all to Madeleine, of course
To think, none of it would have happened if they had just hired a babysitter for the evening
they thought it was safer than a baby sitter what they did, ,leaving three babies alone, i know, bizarre stupid irresponsible and sick
bye now
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This was what Kate wrote in her own book about the note in the reception book.
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Wasn't the reference to the note found in the book in reception?
This was what Kate wrote in her own book.
(http://i.imgur.com/evHDwyW.jpg)
Kate McCann's inability to take personal responibility jumps straight out in that paragraph
She is 'dismayed' that someone else was not careful with the information that she had left her young children alone and vulnerable in the apartment
The 'fault' lay with the person who let it be known that she had left her children alone and vulnerable ... and not with her for having done so
astonishing
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Gonçalo Amaral's book hardly contained any explosive information. Almost everything in his book had already been in the local newspapers. The incident with Gerry sucking on a lollypop and surfing on the internet while the police were waiting for a contact from an "abductor" was new. Also, the incident with a neighbour seeing the trunk of the car the parents used constantly left open was new but that was about it.
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I'm not sure I'm right but I thought Goncalo Amaral's book wasn't translated into English until September 2009?
That's an excellent point Jaci
Does anyone know when the translated version of Amaral's book became available on line ?
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Kate McCann's inability to take personal responibility jumps straight out in that paragraph
She is 'dismayed' that someone else was not careful with the information that she had left her young children alone and vulnerable in the apartment
The 'fault' lay with the person who let it be known that she had left her children alone and vulnerable ... and not with her for having done so
astonishing
For what it's worth, I totally agree. Time after time, the McCanns scratch around to apportion blame, then wonder why they alienate so many people. And "being a Mod" doesn't make me exempt from having strong feelings and opinions. IMO, Madeleine's fate can be squarely placed at her parents' door - I'm sure that if Kate and Gerry were a couple of work-shy chavs from Tipton, they would be vilified just as much as the Philpotts.
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Some of the early translations and dates can be found
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html
Extracts were also printed by C d M and translated, well before Esse translated from the French version.
Thank you for that link
I scrolled right down but couldn't find the date when the book was first translated into English
Is Jacinta correct when she says it was not until September 2009 ?
Was that after the 3A forum closed down ?
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For what it's worth, I totally agree. Time after time, the McCanns scratch around to apportion blame, then wonder why they alienate so many people. And "being a Mod" doesn't make me exempt from having strong feelings and opinions. IMO, Madeleine's fate can be squarely placed at her parents' door - I'm sure that if Kate and Gerry were a couple of work-shy chavs from Tipton, they would be vilified just as much as the Philpotts.
Blame the parents, but exonerate the abductor! Your moral compass needs re-calibrating.
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Thank you for that link
I scrolled right down but couldn't find the date when the book was first translated into English
Is Jacinta correct when she says it was not until September 2009 ?
Was that after the 3A forum closed down ?
Gonçalo Amaral's book "Truth of the Lie" hits the UK amid outrage from the McCanns
MADDIE: OUTRAGE AT BOOK
Cop accuses McCanns
By Jerry Lawton, 28 August 2008
Madeleine McCann's parents faced fresh heartache last night as a best-seller on the case hit Britain.
Kate and Gerry are already planning to sue retired Portuguese cop Goncalo Amaral, 48, over allegations in his book.
They have launched a bid to stop it being published in the UK. But the first copies have arrived here via Portuguese booksellers.
Chunks of the 221 pages have been translated into English and posted onto the internet. The book, seen by the Daily Star, includes photos from police files.
One shows Kate and Gerry, both 40, and their holiday pals giving information about Madeleine at the scene just hours after she vanished.
The police chief criticises the McCanns, their friends, Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Leicestershire Police.
Last night the McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "This account has gross inaccuracies and is grossly defamatory.
"The conclusions are entirely false. They suggest Kate and Gerry were involved in the death, accidental or otherwise, of Madeleine and covered it up."
He added: "Mr Amaral and his publishers should not mistake a lack of action yet for any lack of long-term action.
"He is presented as a world-class Madeleine expert but what does he know?
"Do you know how many times he interviewed Kate and Gerry when he was on the case - not once!"
Madeleine, now five, vanished from the family holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, a year ago last May.
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Discussion at The 3 Arguido's here
"Chunks of the 221 pages have been translated into English and posted onto the internet" can also be found here
Click image to buy Portuguese version of the book
(link will be here when English version is available)
Related: Gonçalo Amaral's book 'Maddie: L'Enquête Interdite' ('The Forbidden Investigation' is being translated into English) here
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/gonalo-amarals-book-truth-of-lie-hits.html
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Blame the parents, but exonerate the abductor! Your moral compass needs re-calibrating.
I really don't think so.
OK. Bring it down to basics. Forgive me if this sounds crass. If I get pissed, go to bed and don't lock my chickens up, and the fox gets in, should I blame the fox? And write a book? And sue the RSPCA for not caring about my chickens? Or should I show some humilty, and admit that I was at fault?
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Gonçalo Amaral's book "Truth of the Lie" hits the UK amid outrage from the McCanns
MADDIE: OUTRAGE AT BOOK
Cop accuses McCanns
By Jerry Lawton, 28 August 2008
Madeleine McCann's parents faced fresh heartache last night as a best-seller on the case hit Britain.
Kate and Gerry are already planning to sue retired Portuguese cop Goncalo Amaral, 48, over allegations in his book.
They have launched a bid to stop it being published in the UK. But the first copies have arrived here via Portuguese booksellers.
Chunks of the 221 pages have been translated into English and posted onto the internet. The book, seen by the Daily Star, includes photos from police files.
One shows Kate and Gerry, both 40, and their holiday pals giving information about Madeleine at the scene just hours after she vanished.
The police chief criticises the McCanns, their friends, Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Leicestershire Police.
Last night the McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "This account has gross inaccuracies and is grossly defamatory.
"The conclusions are entirely false. They suggest Kate and Gerry were involved in the death, accidental or otherwise, of Madeleine and covered it up."
He added: "Mr Amaral and his publishers should not mistake a lack of action yet for any lack of long-term action.
"He is presented as a world-class Madeleine expert but what does he know?
"Do you know how many times he interviewed Kate and Gerry when he was on the case - not once!"
Madeleine, now five, vanished from the family holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, a year ago last May.
-----
Discussion at The 3 Arguido's here
"Chunks of the 221 pages have been translated into English and posted onto the internet" can also be found here
Click image to buy Portuguese version of the book
(link will be here when English version is available)
Related: Gonçalo Amaral's book 'Maddie: L'Enquête Interdite' ('The Forbidden Investigation' is being translated into English) here
http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/gonalo-amarals-book-truth-of-lie-hits.html
Thank uou for going to the trouble to bring that DCI
Do you know, though, when the book, in it's completion was translated into English, and became available to read ?
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Thank uou for going to the trouble to bring that DCI
Do you know, though, when the book, in it's completion was translated into English, and became available to read ?
You are welcome.
No, but I'm sure it wasn't long after this date. It certainly wasn't another 13 months later, as suggested!
An English version was never released over here, posters translated it, as soon as it was available in Portuguese.
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You are welcome.
No, but I'm sure it wasn't long after this date. It certainly wasn't another 13 months later, as suggested!
Thanks DCI
I have never read it and was a bit surprised when one of the McCann witnesses said it is the first thing you see when you search the net
I've done a bit of random googling since I became interested in the case and I've never stumbled across it
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Thanks DCI
I have never read it and was a bit surprised when one of the McCann witnesses said it is the first thing you see when you search the net
I've done a bit of random googling since I became interested in the case and I've never stumbled across it
Depends what you google!
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Depends what you google!
oh I'm sure I could find it if I looked for it, but the McCann witness ( was it Emma Loach ? ) made it sound like you couldn't google the name 'McCann' without a copy of Amaral's book being the first thing you see
That is simply not true
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Just Google "The Truth of the Lie" and it comes straight up.
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I really don't think so.
OK. Bring it down to basics. Forgive me if this sounds crass. If I get pissed, go to bed and don't lock my chickens up, and the fox gets in, should I blame the fox? And write a book? And sue the RSPCA for not caring about my chickens? Or should I show some humilty, and admit that I was at fault?
An abducted child is somewhat more valuable than a chicken, and a fox is not an abductor. No matter how careless you deem the parents to have been, the abductor committed the crime, and Madeleine deserves to be found, alive or dead.
The McCann parents have frequently admitted their faulty judgement.
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An abducted child is somewhat more valuable than a chicken, and a fox is not an abductor. No matter how careless you deem the parents to have been, the abductor committed the crime, and Madeleine deserves to be found, alive or dead.
The McCann parents have frequently admitted their faulty judgement.
They havn't though Chinagirl, not really
Their regrets are always couched in language that 'excuses' their decisions
I don't say that in a spiteful way ... I am sure that if their version of events is truthful then they would certainly be feeling deep remorse for their selfish and cavalier behaviour ... but they have never expressed it that way
If what they claim happened is the truth then the most valuable and significant thing they could say about their child care choices is ... "Please, please, never leave your children alone and vulnerable ... please learn by our tragic mistake, and never do as we did"
That would, at least, be a lasting tribute to Madeleine ... their wish that no other child will be lost in the same circumstances
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Kate McCann's inability to take personal responibility jumps straight out in that paragraph
She is 'dismayed' that someone else was not careful with the information that she had left her young children alone and vulnerable in the apartment
The 'fault' lay with the person who let it be known that she had left her children alone and vulnerable ... and not with her for having done so
astonishing
It is astonishing, Icabod
Apparently is more dangerous mentioning the fact that children are left unattended than actually leaving them.
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They havn't though Chinagirl, not really
Their regrets are always couched in language that 'excuses' their decisions
I don't say that in a spiteful way ... I am sure that if their version of events is truthful then they would certainly be feeling deep remorse for their selfish and cavalier behaviour ... but they have never expressed it that way
If what they claim happened is the truth then the most valuable and significant thing they could say about their child care choices is ... "Please, please, never leave your children alone and vulnerable ... please learn by our tragic mistake, and never do as we did"
That would, at least, be a lasting tribute to Madeleine ... their wish that no other child will be lost in the same circumstances
They could cover themselves in sackcloth and ashes and spend the rest of their lives beating their breasts and reciting "mea culpa," but this still wouldn't satisfy you or those who think like you.
They are not perfect parents, any more than you or I are - or anyone for that matter. Those of us who are capable of honesty know that we, too, at least occasionally - have made bad parenting choices for which we have not had to suffer the catastrophic consquences which befell the McCanns.
Everyone who is interested in this case, pro and anti, and the McCanns themselves have accepted that their judgement was at fault. After six years of carping criticism and vilification of the parents for an action they cannot undo, it is time to put the blame where it truly lies - on the abductor - which was the point I made in the previous post.
-
They are not perfect parents, any more than you or I are - or anyone for that matter. Those of us who are capable of honesty know that we, too, at least occasionally - have made bad parenting choices for which we have not had to suffer the catastrophic consquences which befell the McCanns.
You see ... I resent and reject that comparison, because it is simply not true
My two children are grown up now and I NEVER treated their safety with the cavalier attititude of the McCanns .... I just never did ... that is just not true
I may not be a 'perfect' parent ( although of all the jobs I have taken on in my life I think that is the one I have done the best at ) but I really will not accept that my efforts to care for and protect my little ones was 'on a par' with the McCanns
The proposition that 'we have all done that' in one way or another, is false
That should be acknowledged, if only because by insisting we are ALL as irresponsible and self- centred as the McCanns were does their case no good at all
Better if they admitted they made made a real poor show of it ... that they did LESS than should be expected from responsible and loving parents
If they had done that ... instead of defending themselves so determindly ... they would have kept the public's heart
-
Gonçalo Amaral's book hardly contained any explosive information. Almost everything in his book had already been in the local newspapers. The incident with Gerry sucking on a lollypop and surfing on the internet while the police were waiting for a contact from an "abductor" was new. Also, the incident with a neighbour seeing the trunk of the car the parents used constantly left open was new but that was about it.
What about the Gaspar statements?
-
Still waiting for proof of the allegations made by the Mccanns. as regards this thread.
IF OF COURSE THERE IS NO PROOF, THERE IS ONE INESCAPABLE CONCLUSION.
-
I'm not sure I'm right but I thought Goncalo Amaral's book wasn't translated into English until September 2009?
Sorry I should make myself more clear. I meant translated to be read on the internet not book form. I think forum members did the translation in their own time?
If the translation wasn't until Sept then that's one month after 3A's closed down
Jaci x
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I really don't think so.
OK. Bring it down to basics. Forgive me if this sounds crass. If I get pissed, go to bed and don't lock my chickens up, and the fox gets in, should I blame the fox? And write a book? And sue the RSPCA for not caring about my chickens? Or should I show some humilty, and admit that I was at fault?
A better analogy would be you get pissed and forget to lock your door. A rapists enters the house and rapes you..is it your fault
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Sorry I should make myself more clear. I meant translated to be read on the internet not book form. I think forum members did the translation in their own time?
If the translation wasn't until Sept then that's one month after 3A's closed down
Jaci x
I think that people started translating it and posting it on the net very soon after it came out Jacinta, although I will have to double-check that and get back to you.
-
I think that people started translating it and posting it on the net very soon after it came out Jacinta, although I will have to double-check that and get back to you.
“The Truth of the Lie”: Release of Gonçalo Amaral’s Book on the Maddie Case with Hot Revelations
23 July 2008 | Posted by Joana Morais
Excerpts of the book “The Truth of the Lie "
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/truth-of-lie-release-of-gonalo-amarals.html
Ah, so the book was released to SIC TV, before the official date.
Morais managed to post this on the 23rd, so how long had SIC had it?
I believe the translation date was September 2008, not 2009. They wouldn't have been able to restrain themselves for 13 months @)(++(*
ETA, translation on 3A's 2008
(http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/14/67/69/80/3a_dis10.jpg)
-
What about the Gaspar statements?
There was an article about the Gaspar statement in the newspaper Correio da Manhã on the Saturday before the case was shelved. Nothing new for us in Portugal. We here are much better informed about the facts and details of the case then people in Britain, who are spoonfed what the McCanns want them to know. Just like their witnesses in the libel trial.
-
There was an article about the Gaspar statement in the newspaper Correio da Manhã on the Saturday before the case was shelved. Nothing new for us in Portugal. We here are much better informed about the facts and details of the case then people in Britain, who are spoonfed what the McCanns want them to know. Just like their witnesses in the libel trial.
well the british have to keep a stiff upper lip and all that isnt that the english way?
-
I think that people started translating it and posting it on the net very soon after it came out Jacinta, although I will have to double-check that and get back to you.
"I think that people started translating it and posting it on the net very soon after it came out"
of course they did,the amaral supporters couldn't wait to translate his book,they were all frantic about reading it.
-
"I think that people started translating it and posting it on the net very soon after it came out"
of course they did,the amaral supporters couldn't wait to translate his book,they were all frantic about reading it.
Unlike the McCann supporters who were bored to tears at the upcoming novel by Saint Kate at the time of its release, of course. No interest whatsoever in rushing out and reading it, was there. And, of course, it was all "true" not like that nasty disgraced sardine munching bent foreign copper's rubbish, eh?
-
You see ... I resent and reject that comparison, because it is simply not true
My two children are grown up now and I NEVER treated their safety with the cavalier attititude of the McCanns .... I just never did ... that is just not true
I may not be a 'perfect' parent ( although of all the jobs I have taken on in my life I think that is the one I have done the best at ) but I really will not accept that my efforts to care for and protect my little ones was 'on a par' with the McCanns
The proposition that 'we have all done that' in one way or another, is false
That should be acknowledged, if only because by insisting we are ALL as irresponsible and self- centred as the McCanns were does their case no good at all
Better if they admitted they made made a real poor show of it ... that they did LESS than should be expected from responsible and loving parents
If they had done that ... instead of defending themselves so determindly ... they would have kept the public's heart
I do agree with that. But the trouble is they had to defend themselves because their theory wasn't convincing, because lots of elements denied it. This is why imo they were badly advised not to jump on the reconstruction offer. We all know it couldn't demonstrate much, after a year, but it would crucially have demonstrated they were genuinely ready to collaborate.
-
I do agree with that. But the trouble is they had to defend themselves because their theory wasn't convincing, because lots of elements denied it. This is why imo they were badly advised not to jump on the reconstruction offer. We all know it couldn't demonstrate much, after a year, but it would crucially have demonstrated they were genuinely ready to collaborate.
The danger, of course, being that they *might* have been well aware that a reconstruction would have highlighted the discrepancies and led to further awkward questioning!
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The pj refused to televise a reconstruction "why" ?
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They havn't though Chinagirl, not really
Their regrets are always couched in language that 'excuses' their decisions
I don't say that in a spiteful way ... I am sure that if their version of events is truthful then they would certainly be feeling deep remorse for their selfish and cavalier behaviour ... but they have never expressed it that way
If what they claim happened is the truth then the most valuable and significant thing they could say about their child care choices is ... "Please, please, never leave your children alone and vulnerable ... please learn by our tragic mistake, and never do as we did"
That would, at least, be a lasting tribute to Madeleine ... their wish that no other child will be lost in the same circumstances
Yes. For instance there's no single parent who lost a child through a practice called "the chocking game" or "the fainting lark" who doesn't campaign to tell other parents how to recognize your child is doing it, in a positive attempt and hope that what happened to them will not happen to others.
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The pj refused to televise a reconstruction "why" ?
Because it was for criminal purposes and not to assist the McCanns in their agenda. Besides, who are we to question the police if they're trying to carry out an investigation?
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The danger, of course, being that they *might* have been well aware that a reconstruction would have highlighted the discrepancies and led to further awkward questioning!
We all have to admit the only possible explanation for their refusal (a refusal that, fortunately for them, the public isn't aware of) is the fear to contribute against their will to an increase of suspicions.
But imo they should have seized the bull by its horns as we say in French.
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Some of the early translations and dates can be found
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html
Extracts were also printed by C d M and translated, well before Esse translated from the French version.
The French translation was published on the 7th of May 2009..
-
The pj refused to televise a reconstruction "why" ?
Google translate it, basically, in layman's terms, it is not within the scope of a police investigation to produce means of evidence for a silly TV show, but for a court of law, end of.
CAPÍTULO V Da reconstituição do facto
Artigo 150.º
Pressupostos e procedimento
1 - Quando houver necessidade de determinar se um facto poderia ter ocorrido de certa forma, é admissível a sua reconstituição. Esta consiste na reprodução, tão fiel quanto possível, das condições em que se afirma ou se supõe ter ocorrido o facto e na repetição do modo de realização do mesmo.
2 - O despacho que ordenar a reconstituição do facto deve conter uma indicação sucinta do seu objecto, do dia, hora e local em que ocorrerão as diligências e da forma da sua efectivação, eventualmente com recurso a meios audiovisuais. No mesmo despacho pode ser designado perito para execução de operações determinadas.
3 - A publicidade da diligência deve, na medida do possível, ser evitada.»
http://www.pgdlisboa.pt/leis/lei_mostra_articulado.php?tabela=leis&artigo_id=&nid=199&ficha=101&pagina=&nversao=
related
Email sent to Graham Michael / Stuart Prior from Ricardo Paiva
20 March 2008 11:56
(processo/16 - VOLUME XVIa.pdf P86,87 )
Vol. XVI p. 4216 and 4219 (4217 is the same, in Portugese)
Hello good morning Mick.
In answer to the questions raised by the holiday group regarding the re-enactment in Praia da Luz, Mr Paulo Rebelo wishes to clarify them as follows:
1 - Why do the PJ want them to take part in the re-enactment?
The PJ wants them to take part in the re-enactment because they were the ones who experienced the situation. Therefore they are in the best conditions to reproduce it.
2 - What is the aim, what are the PJ trying to achieve with the re-enactment?
The PJ is trying to find out, with accuracy, the circunstances of the events occurred, using for that purpose the exact place of events and the same persons who took part in it.
3 - Why so close to the anniversary?
Only now has the PJ contitions to carry out these procedings, and also because it is desirable that the weather conditions are as similar as possible to those at the time of the events.
4 - Why don't the PJ use actors?
The reason is because only the persons involved can clarify, with accuracy and at the same place, their position and movements.
5 - Will the footageof the re-enactment be released to the press/TV etc?
The PJ won't release any pictures/footage to the press.
6 - What protection is there for the friends in relation to the media coverage/like frenzy?
The place will be isolated and press interference will be avoided to its maximum.
The re-enactment will be carried out in one single day, at the exact time the events occurred.
However, the witnesses are requested to stay in Portugal for a couple of days more, in order to allow the production of all the material which shall be analysed, checked and signed by the persons involved.
Best regards.
Ricardo Paiva
----
Email sent to Ricardo Paiva from Graham Michael / cc. Stuart Prior, Gary Watts, Nigel Baraclough
28 March 2008 16:33
(processo/16 - VOLUME XVIa.pdf P89 )
Vol XVI p. 4218
Dear Ricardo,
An update for you, as discussed this morning;
We have spoken on a number of ocasions with the holiday group and they are still undecided whether they will agree to attend Portugal to take part in this process.
As a group, they are waiting to see if Gerry and Kate McCann will be invited to attend and participate in the re-enactment. It is my understanding that if Gerry and Kate do not participate in this process, then the decision will be that they will not attend.
In addition, the group have stated that they would require written reassurances about how the process was going to be conducted before agreeing to attend.
Therefore, until these issues are resolved we are unable to get a firm commitment from the holiday group to attend on either of the proposed dates.
Mick
-----
Attachment to Stuart Prior from Paulo Rebelo, answering the questions raised by witnesses over the proposed reconstruction (see previous email)
15 April 2008
Processos Volume XVI, pgs. 4190 to 4192
Dear Stuart,
As agreed during our visit to Leicester last week, and in order to provide an answer to the questions raised by various witnesses in the investigation into the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann, regarding the possibility of carrying out a re-enactment on the site of the events, I shall inform you of the following:
1 – Regarding the arguido or formal suspect status of Gerald McCann and Kate McCann, it is not the PJ’s competence to take the decision on the respective clearance. Thus, it is not possible to ensure the arguido status will be changed;
2 – There is no need for the witnesses to be accompanied by their children. For efficiency and celerity purposes, we indeed request that the children don’t accompany their parents;
3 – The re-enactment, within the LOR, shall take place probably on May 15, 2008, between 5.30 p.m. and 11 p.m., thus covering the time period before dinner, dinner time and about an hour after having checked that the child had gone missing;
4 – A postponing of the re-enactment will only happen if the weather conditions are extremely bad, once the sites where most part of the events took place weren’t exposed to such conditions. We also add the draft agenda to the proceedings, which we plan to be as follows:
- May 15 – In the morning – Arrival to Portugal of the participants in the proceedings;
- - In the afternoon – The re-enactment
- May 16 – During the day – Preparation, by the PJ, of the records and documents of the proceedings which will be displayed, reviewed and signed by the participants;
- May 17 – In the morning or in the afternoon – Departure of the participants.
5 – The re-enactment will be carried out with the attendance of the nine holidaying friends, as well as, incidentally, any figurant considered to be necessary for a visualization of the events, i.e. a man carrying a child;
6 – The re-enactment site will be isolated, as much as possible, in order to preserve the security and the integrity of the proceedings. However, we can neither assure the evacuation of the population, nor guarantee the press won't interfere out of the security perimeter which will be established. Thus, we will do our best efforts to try and avoid picture taking by the press. However, we can not completely ensure that won't happen;
7 – The re-enactment will only turn out to be efficient if performed by the participants in the events, once the information provided by the same participants needs to be tested and efficiently compared on-site, and that can only be achieved by means of their own performances. Thus, the possibility of using actors has to be put aside;
8 – The request for the presence of witnesses was submitted through the LOR; the notification for the attendance of the arguidos falls under the competence of the Public Prosecutor's Office;
9 – If it is their wish, the witnesses can be assisted by the Foreign Office and, in the proceedings, also by a legal representative, subject to the consent of the Public Prosecutor's Office. Within the scope of the cooperation that has been taking place, the Leicestershire Police has already been invited to be present in the proceedings;
10 – If the conditions to make the re-enactments are achieved, the payments of participants’ airfares and the stay costs will be subject of later evaluation;
11 – The PJ will be responsible for ensuring personal security for all the participants in the proceedings and will facilitate transfers from and to the airport, and from and to the proceedings. The PJ does not foresee any hostile environment or the occurrence of events able to put the participants' physical and psychological integrity at risk;
12 – The witnesses will be invited to participate in the re-enactment, but there are no suspicions over them regarding the commission of any criminal acts;
13 – The translation services of these inquiry proceedings will be provided by private officers of the PJ;
14 – The PJ considers this re-enactment to be highly important, and hopes the witnesses show their total cooperation, as they have been doing so far, towards finding out the truth.
We hope we have provided the answers to all the questions raised by the participants and, for logistics and case preparation purposes, we kindly request to be informed about the participants' respective answers until April 25, 2008.
Best regards,
Paulo Rebelo
CSIC
more here http://www.mccannfiles.com/id279.html
----
We all know the answer from the collective Tapas 9 to this request.
-
We all know the answer from the collective Tapas 9 to this request.
No you don't. The Tapas 7, yes!
-
Google translate it, basically, in layman's terms, it is not within the scope of a police investigation to produce means of evidence for a silly TV show, but for a court of law, end of.
CAPÍTULO V Da reconstituição do facto
Artigo 150.º
Pressupostos e procedimento
1 - Quando houver necessidade de determinar se um facto poderia ter ocorrido de certa forma, é admissível a sua reconstituição. Esta consiste na reprodução, tão fiel quanto possível, das condições em que se afirma ou se supõe ter ocorrido o facto e na repetição do modo de realização do mesmo.
2 - O despacho que ordenar a reconstituição do facto deve conter uma indicação sucinta do seu objecto, do dia, hora e local em que ocorrerão as diligências e da forma da sua efectivação, eventualmente com recurso a meios audiovisuais. No mesmo despacho pode ser designado perito para execução de operações determinadas.
3 - A publicidade da diligência deve, na medida do possível, ser evitada.»
http://www.pgdlisboa.pt/leis/lei_mostra_articulado.php?tabela=leis&artigo_id=&nid=199&ficha=101&pagina=&nversao=
related
Email sent to Graham Michael / Stuart Prior from Ricardo Paiva
20 March 2008 11:56
(processo/16 - VOLUME XVIa.pdf P86,87 )
Vol. XVI p. 4216 and 4219 (4217 is the same, in Portugese)
Hello good morning Mick.
In answer to the questions raised by the holiday group regarding the re-enactment in Praia da Luz, Mr Paulo Rebelo wishes to clarify them as follows:
1 - Why do the PJ want them to take part in the re-enactment?
The PJ wants them to take part in the re-enactment because they were the ones who experienced the situation. Therefore they are in the best conditions to reproduce it.
2 - What is the aim, what are the PJ trying to achieve with the re-enactment?
The PJ is trying to find out, with accuracy, the circunstances of the events occurred, using for that purpose the exact place of events and the same persons who took part in it.
3 - Why so close to the anniversary?
Only now has the PJ contitions to carry out these procedings, and also because it is desirable that the weather conditions are as similar as possible to those at the time of the events.
4 - Why don't the PJ use actors?
The reason is because only the persons involved can clarify, with accuracy and at the same place, their position and movements.
5 - Will the footageof the re-enactment be released to the press/TV etc?
The PJ won't release any pictures/footage to the press.
6 - What protection is there for the friends in relation to the media coverage/like frenzy?
The place will be isolated and press interference will be avoided to its maximum.
The re-enactment will be carried out in one single day, at the exact time the events occurred.
However, the witnesses are requested to stay in Portugal for a couple of days more, in order to allow the production of all the material which shall be analysed, checked and signed by the persons involved.
Best regards.
Ricardo Paiva
----
Email sent to Ricardo Paiva from Graham Michael / cc. Stuart Prior, Gary Watts, Nigel Baraclough
28 March 2008 16:33
(processo/16 - VOLUME XVIa.pdf P89 )
Vol XVI p. 4218
Dear Ricardo,
An update for you, as discussed this morning;
We have spoken on a number of ocasions with the holiday group and they are still undecided whether they will agree to attend Portugal to take part in this process.
As a group, they are waiting to see if Gerry and Kate McCann will be invited to attend and participate in the re-enactment. It is my understanding that if Gerry and Kate do not participate in this process, then the decision will be that they will not attend.
In addition, the group have stated that they would require written reassurances about how the process was going to be conducted before agreeing to attend.
Therefore, until these issues are resolved we are unable to get a firm commitment from the holiday group to attend on either of the proposed dates.
Mick
-----
Attachment to Stuart Prior from Paulo Rebelo, answering the questions raised by witnesses over the proposed reconstruction (see previous email)
15 April 2008
Processos Volume XVI, pgs. 4190 to 4192
Dear Stuart,
As agreed during our visit to Leicester last week, and in order to provide an answer to the questions raised by various witnesses in the investigation into the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann, regarding the possibility of carrying out a re-enactment on the site of the events, I shall inform you of the following:
1 – Regarding the arguido or formal suspect status of Gerald McCann and Kate McCann, it is not the PJ’s competence to take the decision on the respective clearance. Thus, it is not possible to ensure the arguido status will be changed;
2 – There is no need for the witnesses to be accompanied by their children. For efficiency and celerity purposes, we indeed request that the children don’t accompany their parents;
3 – The re-enactment, within the LOR, shall take place probably on May 15, 2008, between 5.30 p.m. and 11 p.m., thus covering the time period before dinner, dinner time and about an hour after having checked that the child had gone missing;
4 – A postponing of the re-enactment will only happen if the weather conditions are extremely bad, once the sites where most part of the events took place weren’t exposed to such conditions. We also add the draft agenda to the proceedings, which we plan to be as follows:
- May 15 – In the morning – Arrival to Portugal of the participants in the proceedings;
- - In the afternoon – The re-enactment
- May 16 – During the day – Preparation, by the PJ, of the records and documents of the proceedings which will be displayed, reviewed and signed by the participants;
- May 17 – In the morning or in the afternoon – Departure of the participants.
5 – The re-enactment will be carried out with the attendance of the nine holidaying friends, as well as, incidentally, any figurant considered to be necessary for a visualization of the events, i.e. a man carrying a child;
6 – The re-enactment site will be isolated, as much as possible, in order to preserve the security and the integrity of the proceedings. However, we can neither assure the evacuation of the population, nor guarantee the press won't interfere out of the security perimeter which will be established. Thus, we will do our best efforts to try and avoid picture taking by the press. However, we can not completely ensure that won't happen;
7 – The re-enactment will only turn out to be efficient if performed by the participants in the events, once the information provided by the same participants needs to be tested and efficiently compared on-site, and that can only be achieved by means of their own performances. Thus, the possibility of using actors has to be put aside;
8 – The request for the presence of witnesses was submitted through the LOR; the notification for the attendance of the arguidos falls under the competence of the Public Prosecutor's Office;
9 – If it is their wish, the witnesses can be assisted by the Foreign Office and, in the proceedings, also by a legal representative, subject to the consent of the Public Prosecutor's Office. Within the scope of the cooperation that has been taking place, the Leicestershire Police has already been invited to be present in the proceedings;
10 – If the conditions to make the re-enactments are achieved, the payments of participants’ airfares and the stay costs will be subject of later evaluation;
11 – The PJ will be responsible for ensuring personal security for all the participants in the proceedings and will facilitate transfers from and to the airport, and from and to the proceedings. The PJ does not foresee any hostile environment or the occurrence of events able to put the participants' physical and psychological integrity at risk;
12 – The witnesses will be invited to participate in the re-enactment, but there are no suspicions over them regarding the commission of any criminal acts;
13 – The translation services of these inquiry proceedings will be provided by private officers of the PJ;
14 – The PJ considers this re-enactment to be highly important, and hopes the witnesses show their total cooperation, as they have been doing so far, towards finding out the truth.
We hope we have provided the answers to all the questions raised by the participants and, for logistics and case preparation purposes, we kindly request to be informed about the participants' respective answers until April 25, 2008.
Best regards,
Paulo Rebelo
CSIC
more here http://www.mccannfiles.com/id279.html
----
We all know the answer from the collective Tapas 9 to this request.
Welcome, TrueSardine. "Silly TV shows" as you put it, have helped to solve many crimes in the UK. Crimewatch UK as an example. So they are not so silly after all.