UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Alfred R Jones on December 09, 2014, 11:05:16 PM
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A member recenty hinted that she has inside information which leads her to conclude that the Met are deliberately misinforming the public. I'd like to discuss what specifically they have misinformed us about and what the evidence is to support this claim.
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This could be a short thread...
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This could be a short thread...
Don't bank on it.
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Possible. Been a PR war from the start. SY could be playing their own little game. Though imo it largely just looks like they are being extremely quiet for the corporation of the Portuguese.
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Possible. Been a PR war from the start. SY could be playing their own little game. Though imo it largely just looks like they are being extremely quiet for the corporation of the Portuguese.
Scotland Yard don't play PR War Games with Cases in foreign countries. Few that there are. If there had been anything to hide then they would never have become involved in the first place. There is no Law that said they had to. in fact, I have wondered why they did.
And then I look at the complete cock up of The PJ by a man who was about to become an Arguido in the Case of another missing girl child, of which was used by The Portuguese Media, to facilitate a horrendously unsafe conviction. And then I know for why.
Madeleine McCann is a British Citizen.
And besides all of that, The British Government have never quite forgiven themselves for how badly they let down Michael Cook. This could not be allowed to happen again, without a vestige of evidence.
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Scotland Yard don't play PR War Games with Cases in foreign countries. Few that there are. If there had been anything to hide then they would never have become involved in the first place. There is no Law that said they had to. in fact, I have wondered why they did.
And then I look at the complete cock up of The PJ by a man who was about to become an Arguido in the Case of another missing girl child, of which was used by The Portuguese Media, to facilitate a horrendously unsafe conviction. And then I know for why.
Madeleine McCann is a British Citizen.
And besides all of that, The British Government have never quite forgiven themselves for how badly they let down Michael Cook. This could not be allowed to happen again, without a vestige of evidence.
If Kate McCann (the mother) had been Portuguese then I believe the case would have been virtually a carbon copy of Amaral's previous missing chld case IMO. The signs were all there. It was only the fact that they were British citizens which saved her from the same fate IMO.
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In the beginning I think the British government were playing some kind of game. I can't think of a specific example right now, but back in the Brown and even more so in the Blair era I think they habitually lied to the British public in general and were spinning so much bull and there seemed to be a heavy whiff of politics around this case. All imo, but I have found it hard to trust the establishment after the Iraq war. Still waiting for the review on that one aren't we :(
Even in this country there is plenty of beatings that take place for various reasons by the police. I've been psychically threatened by a police officer before on the street for answering back in my drunk student days and I know of others who claim to have been mistreated in police care. I agree though they would no doubt use the same tactics again if the McCanns were natives. Don't trust Amaral either btw...
The only kind of spin/manipulation of the media I could imagine here is the type that puts pressure/tricks/manipulates potential suspects(police have history of doing this. A particularly famous case the name of which eludes me they released to the media whereabouts they were digging for a body so they could trail there suspect and see if he was alarmed or showed them exactly where to dig. It worked.). Also, there was that report not long ago that British interference in this case hampered the Portuguese investigation. I remember thinking at the time SY was likely behind this info of course to soften the PJ up given the bad feeling.
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They won't tell you what's really going on in the background that's for sure. They are doing a process of elimination but they will be gathering other evidence on prime suspects in the background whilst we only see what they want us to see. They won't show their real hand until it's ready.
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I don't see any evidence of misinformation to the public. Possibly the McCanns still remain suspects on some level, so there is that possible misinformation.
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They won't tell you what's really going on in the background that's for sure. They are doing a process of elimination but they will be gathering other evidence on prime suspects in the background whilst we only see what they want us to see. They won't show their real hand until it's ready.
I'd agree with that - but would add that anyone thinking the McCanns are ''the prime suspects in the background'' are going to be very disappointed IMO.
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In the beginning I think the British government were playing some kind of game. I can't think of a specific example right now, but back in the Brown and even more so in the Blair era I think they habitually lied to the British public in general and were spinning so much bull and there seemed to be a heavy whiff of politics around this case. All imo, but I have found it hard to trust the establishment after the Iraq war. Still waiting for the review on that one aren't we :(
Even in this country there is plenty of beatings that take place for various reasons by the police. I've been psychically threatened by a police officer before on the street for answering back in my drunk student days and I know of others who claim to have been mistreated in police care. I agree though they would no doubt use the same tactics again if the McCanns were natives. Don't trust Amaral either btw...
The only kind of spin/manipulation of the media I could imagine here is the type that puts pressure/tricks/manipulates potential suspects(police have history of doing this. A particularly famous case the name of which eludes me they released to the media whereabouts they were digging for a body so they could trail there suspect and see if he was alarmed or showed them exactly where to dig. It worked.). Also, there was that report not long ago that British interference in this case hampered the Portuguese investigation. I remember thinking at the time SY was likely behind this info of course to soften the PJ up given the bad feeling.
You are not entirely wrong. But this was hardly a political issue. Unless someone can tell me why it was.
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They won't tell you what's really going on in the background that's for sure. They are doing a process of elimination but they will be gathering other evidence on prime suspects in the background whilst we only see what they want us to see. They won't show their real hand until it's ready.
Do you think once they have eliminated everyone who was within 100 miles of PdL that night that they'll be left with no other option but to arrest and charge the McCanns? Is that how investigations work in your view?
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Do you think once they have eliminated everyone who was within 100 miles of PdL that night that they'll be left with no other option but to arrest and charge the McCanns? Is that how investigations work in your view?
They are gathering evidence behind the scenes that we don't know about. That is a certainty. How many are working on this case for the past 3 years. In both the UK and Portugal. You will find out who when there's enough evidence for a conviction.
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They are gathering evidence behind the scenes that we don't know about. That is a certainty. How many are working on this case for the past 3 years. In both the UK and Portugal. You will find out who when there's enough evidence for a conviction.
All true, however is it not also true to say that you are convinced that the Met are busy gathering evidence against the McCanns?
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All true, however is it not also true to say that you are convinced that the Met are busy gathering evidence against the McCanns?
They will be gathering evidence on the prime suspects behind the scenes and you will only know about it when they're ready.
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They will be gathering evidence on the prime suspects behind the scenes and you will only know about it when they're ready.
Yes - who are the prime suspects though?
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Amaral must be laughing his cotton socks off at Redwoods failure. %£&)**# @)(++(*
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Well I've just heard that questioning of Murat has stopped, as he was asked the same questions 7 years ago.
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Well I've just heard that questioning of Murat has stopped, as he was asked the same questions 7 years ago.
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I realise there are tens of thousands of pieces of information so it would be difficult to remember them all
but it seems a bit oddball to ask questions which have already been answered seven years ago and not realise it was perhaps contrary to the rules surrounding the proceedings?
Dunno; like weird man
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Amaral must be laughing his cotton socks off at Redwoods failure. %£&)**# @)(++(*
What failure is that?
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PS: thanks for reinstating my thread 8((()*/
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I think the Met have been wonderfully restrained.
They are making certain that there will be no excuse for the Portuguese to pull the rug out and close the case.
Not only are they not feeding misinformation ... they are feeding no information at all.
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I think the Met have been wonderfully restrained.
They are making certain that there will be no excuse for the Portuguese to pull the rug out and close the case.
Not only are they not feeding misinformation ... they are feeding no information at all.
Really ???
and of course , it has never been revealed that members of the police have 'fed' information to the press for a financial return. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
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Well I've just heard that questioning of Murat has stopped, as he was asked the same questions 7 years ago.
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So he has refused to answer the questions
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So he has refused to answer the questions
Why should he have answered the same questions twice ?
So Dave, when did SY ask the McCann's all the questions that the PJ asked them ?
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Why should he have answered the same questions twice ?
So Dave, when did SY ask the McCann's all the questions that the PJ asked them ?
murat refused to answer the questions ...fact
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Police often ask the same questions twice to look for inconsistencies...so murat said he would co operate then decided not to...didn't want to trip himself up perhaps
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Was Murat being questioned as a witness or arguido?
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Amaral must be laughing his cotton socks off at Redwoods failure. %£&)**# @)(++(*
To be fair, SY did find one cannabis palnt on that wasteland.
But seriously, IMO SY are correct to look at the interrupted burgalary angle and are making a good try at that.
Yes IMO SY are sensibly restricting public knowledge of what they are up to.
The SY interviews in portugal have to be done by PJ and are difficult to conceal.
But it's fairly obvious there must have also been numerous SY interviews in UK, and we heard nothing about them.
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murat refused to answer the questions ...fact
and let's not forget km and her 48 questions, and the answer to the one she did reply to.
Would you care to remind us of that one ?
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and let's not forget km and her 48 questions, and the answer to the one she did reply to.
Would you care to remind us of that one ?
I am not forgetting...but now Murat has refused to answer questions
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I am not forgetting...but now Murat has refused to answer questions
Now who fingered Murat in the first place ?
Remind me who wished him dead ?
You seem to think it's perfectly OK for the mccanns not to answer questions, why is that ?
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Now who fingered Murat in the first place ?
Remind me who wished him dead ?
You seem to think it's perfectly OK for the mccanns not to answer questions, why is that ?
firstly...because that's what the law says...and other reasons that have been discussed a million times
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firstly...because that's what the law says...and other reasons that have been discussed a million times
On that basis, Murat also has every right not to answer the questions, especially the ones he's been asked before.
Don't you agree ?
Or is it one rule for the mccanns dave, and different for everyone else ?
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On that basis, Murat also has every right not to answer the questions, especially the ones he's been asked before.
Don't you agree ?
Or is it one rule for the mccanns dave, and different for everyone else ?
I haven't criticised murat..try reading the posts again. The hypocrites are you and others who HAVE criticised Kate but have not criticised Murat
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I haven't criticised murat..try reading the posts again. The hypocrites are you and others who HAVE criticised Kate but have not criticised Murat
Hypocrites dave ?
We have merely pointed out that Murat is doing exactly what km did, in not answering the questions, and HINDERING THE INVESTIGATION.
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Hypocrites dave ?
We have merely pointed out that Murat is doing exactly what km did, in not answering the questions, and HINDERING THE INVESTIGATION.
where have you pointed out that Murat is hindering the investigation
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where have you pointed out that Murat is hindering the investigation
How has he hindered it dave ?
He's already answered the same questions before, which km didn't.
and on Friday he's due to answer more questions.
So perhaps you should keep up with events.
You should really keep
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How has he hindered it dave ?
He's already answered the same questions before, which km didn't.
and on Friday he's due to answer more questions.
So perhaps you should keep up with events.
You should really keep
So its quite ok for murat to refuse to answer questions according you ..that makes you a hypocrite
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On that basis, Murat also has every right not to answer the questions, especially the ones he's been asked before.
Don't you agree ?
Or is it one rule for the mccanns dave, and different for everyone else ?
If you invoke this right to remain silence than you dont have truthful explanation for the arguments put in front of you. It is burden on the prosecution to proof the crime not on defended but once they present the evidence its up to the suspect or judge. In this stage the keep option open by treating everyone as witness.
But watch out what is going to happen. I bet the farm these 11 will solve the case not the institutions. There is legal strategy in place by SY, Portugal national police together with Prosecutor.
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We have all given our reasons whY we think Kate chose not to answer questions....but why has Murat refused to answer...very strange
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So its quite ok for murat to refuse to answer questions according you ..that makes you a hypocrite
You really don't read, do you.
Why does Murat need to answer the same questions again dave ?
Meanwhile you excuse the actions of people who are clearly very close to you.
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We have all given our reasons whY we think Kate chose not to answer questions....but why has Murat refused to answer...very strange
Excuses, are not justifiable reasons.
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If you invoke this right to remain silence than you dont have truthful explanation for the arguments put in front of you. It is burden on the prosecution to proof the crime not on defended but once they present the evidence its up to the suspect or judge. In this stage the keep option open by treating everyone as witness.
But watch out what is going to happen. I bet the farm these 11 will solve the case not the institutions. There is legal strategy in place by SY, Portugal national police together with Prosecutor.
Wishful thinking.
Are you excusing the mccanns not fully cooperating with the investigation ?
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You really don't read, do you.
Why does Murat need to answer the same questions again dave ?
Meanwhile you excuse the actions of people who are clearly very close to you.
Wasn't that the excuse used to explain why Kate wouldn't answer her questions - that she had answered them all before?
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You really don't read, do you.
Why does Murat need to answer the same questions again dave ?
Meanwhile you excuse the actions of people who are clearly very close to you.
Because is his last chance to choose which answers are correct. Plus how do you know that this are same questions he already answered? Police haven't touch his activities in UK nor he was questioned about.
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Because is his last chance to choose which answers are correct. Plus how do you know that this are same questions he already answered?
His last chance to get things correct ?
Are you acting as judge and jury ?
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How is acting like jury or judge if you answer same question on 3 different ways during judicial police interview? It is judical proceeding, so dont take this on personal level is not going to help you.
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How is acting like jury or judge if you answer same question on 3 different ways during judicial police interview? It is judical proceeding, so dont take this on personal level is not going to help you.
Who is taking it on a personal level?
It has been clear cut for years that the mccanns did not cooperate fully with the investigation.
It also seems clear cut, SY have never questioned the mccanns, yet you accept questioning of others.
Why is that ?
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Who is taking it on a personal level?
It has been clear cut for years that the mccanns did not cooperate fully with the investigation.
It also seems clear cut, SY have never questioned the mccanns, yet you accept questioning of others.
Why is that ?
You are making a fool of yourself...how do you know SY have not questioned the McCcanns...the fact that Murat has refused to answer questions is strange to me...I wonder what SY make of it
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You are making a fool of yourself...how do you know SY have not questioned the McCcanns...the fact that Murat has refused to answer questions is strange to me...I wonder what SY make of it
Such a boring and all too predictable response from the person very attached to the mccanns. 8(0(*
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Who is taking it on a personal level?
It has been clear cut for years that the mccanns did not cooperate fully with the investigation.
It also seems clear cut, SY have never questioned the mccanns, yet you accept questioning of others.
Why is that ?
Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over again when you clearly have no intention whatsoever of giving even the slightest consideration to the answers?
If you want to believe that the McCanns & Co have never been interviewed by SY - then carry on. But unless you can come up with a credible reason why SY would not interview them - then your repetitious questioning is pointless and cannot be debated IMO.
(awaits the usual ''Prove it'' response....)
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Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over again when you clearly have no intention whatsoever of giving even the slightest consideration to the answers?
If you want to believe that the McCanns & Co have never been interviewed by SY - then carry on. But unless you can come up with a credible reason why SY would not interview them - then your repetitious questioning is pointless and cannot be debated IMO.
(awaits the usual ''Prove it'' response....)
So pray tell me when SY interviewed the mccanns ?
SY have never said they have. &%+((£
P.S. A thorough and professional investigation, would involve questioning all relevant parties.
%£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
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Now who fingered Murat in the first place ?
Remind me who wished him dead ?
You seem to think it's perfectly OK for the mccanns not to answer questions, why is that ?
No idea why the PJ took an interest in Mr Murat ... maybe part of it was the interest he was taking in them.
Among the first candidates for "fingering Murat" might be the anonymous Portuguese caller or even Inspector Pedro Varanda.
Who knows? what we all do know is that it wasn't Jane Tanner who saw what she saw, said what she saw ... and stuck to that from first to last.
02-Processos Volume II PJ Record 8th May 2007-
At about 20.00 the police received a phone call from a number that could not be identified, from a person with a female voice speaking in correct Portuguese, who did not want to be identified for reasons of safety. She refers to an individual who abducted Madeleine, who knows how to keep quiet and is quite close to the police. When asked who she was referring to she said it was an individual who resides in Praia da Luz, who has an English mother, who speaks this language very well, who was near the area since the disappearance of the little girl, supposedly with the intention of helping the investigation. She said this man was called Robert ... http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
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No idea why the PJ took an interest in Mr Murat ... maybe part of it was the interest he was taking in them.
Among the first candidates for "fingering Murat" might be the anonymous Portuguese caller or even Inspector Pedro Varanda.
Who knows? what we all do know is that it wasn't Jane Tanner who saw what she saw, said what she saw ... and stuck to that from first to last.
02-Processos Volume II PJ Record 8th May 2007-
At about 20.00 the police received a phone call from a number that could not be identified, from a person with a female voice speaking in correct Portuguese, who did not want to be identified for reasons of safety. She refers to an individual who abducted Madeleine, who knows how to keep quiet and is quite close to the police. When asked who she was referring to she said it was an individual who resides in Praia da Luz, who has an English mother, who speaks this language very well, who was near the area since the disappearance of the little girl, supposedly with the intention of helping the investigation. She said this man was called Robert ... http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
Have you forgotten Lori Campbell and others ?
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So pray tell me when SY interviewed the mccanns ?
SY have never said they have. &%+((£
AFAIK apart from Gerry, no-one else has said they ever 'used the bathroom' in PdL. Shall we take it therefore that only Gerry had a pee that week?
Where is your common sense Stephen?
Why do you think that because something so patently obvious as SY interviewing the parents of a missing child, as part of the normal police procedure in missing child cases, has not been made public - then it can't possibly have happened?
Do you really think SY have interviewed no-one, but have simply relied on people's witness statements?
SY have said they are not going to give a running commentary on their investigations. What is there not to understand in that statement?
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Have you forgotten Lori Campbell and others ?
Hmmm ... suspicions appear to have been raised with quite a few folk ... but I really think the PJ inspectors would be the clincher.
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So pray tell me when SY interviewed the mccanns ?
SY have never said they have. &%+((£
P.S. A thorough and professional investigation, would involve questioning all relevant parties.
%£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
You are making an assumption...a stupid assumption...that SY have not interviewed the mccanns...they almost certainly have...but I don't expect them to tell us whom and whom they have not interviewed
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AFAIK apart from Gerry, no-one else has said they ever 'used the bathroom' in PdL. Shall we take it therefore that only Gerry had a pee that week?
Where is your common sense Stephen?
Why do you think that because something so patently obvious as SY interviewing the parents of a missing child, as part of the normal police procedure in missing child cases, has not been made public - then it can't possibly have happened?
Do you really think SY have interviewed no-one, but have simply relied on people's witness statements?
SY have said they are not going to give a running commentary on their investigations. What is there not to understand in that statement?
IMO they would have followed protocol in a missing child case and interviewed first the parents, then their friends followed by a few key British witnesses.
The Operation Grange team consist of hard nosed cynical detectives who weren't about to end up their careers with egg all over their faces ... if they had any doubts ... they would not have recommended reopening the case and they would not be following evidence in Portugal today.
IMO it is common sense to have worked that out.
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You are making an assumption...a stupid assumption...that SY have not interviewed the mccanns...they almost certainly have...but I don't expect them to tell us whom and whom they have not interviewed
Rollocks.
SY have never stated they interviewed the mccanns.
If they had, they would be none of these questions.
As the saying goes, silence is golden.
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IMO they would have followed protocol in a missing child case and interviewed first the parents, then their friends followed by a few key British witnesses.
The Operation Grange team consist of hard nosed cynical detectives who weren't about to end up their careers with egg all over their faces ... if they had any doubts ... they would not have recommended reopening the case and they would not be following evidence in Portugal today.
IMO it is common sense to have worked that out.
I totally agree. Also I believe that Andy Redwood and his colleagues (as professionals who are trained to observe) would have wanted to meet the McCanns and their friends - to make their own personal assessments of them - particulary with regard to their reliability/credibility/demeanour etc.
I still find the fact that Amaral did not want to do the same to be completely incomprehensible.