UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on March 29, 2015, 01:47:01 PM
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Did Madeleine McCann do the same thing but wasn't so lucky?
4-year-old seeking slushie found alone on bus at 3 am.
Friday 27 March 2015
TACONY (WPVI)
A 4-year-old girl was found all alone in the middle of the night in Northeast Philadelphia, and it turns out she ventured out on her own in search of a frozen treat.
(http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/wpvi/images/cms/577199_630x354.jpg)
It all began around 3 a.m. Friday on Torresdale Avenue near Cottman in the Tacony neighborhood. That's where a man flagged down SEPTA's 56 bus, telling the driver about the little girl he found.
SEPTA surveillance video shows little Annabelle stepping onto the bus wearing a purple coat and snow boots.
"Got to be kidding me! At this time, at 3 o'clock on the morning," said driver Harlan Jenifer said. "She's a small little thing. It kind of just shocked me."
He called police while bus passengers comforted the child, who let them know what her early morning mission was.
"All I want is a slushie, that's all she said!" said Jenifer.
Within an hour, little Annabelle was back with her shocked parents - and they've since reconfigured their door locks.
Annabelle, however, seemed to be concerned that her slushie quest was interrupted.
"Mom, can you take me to Wawa and get me a slushie?" she asked her mother, Jaclyn Mager, while she talked to Action News later Friday.
"I will take you to Wawa and get you a slushie," Jaclyn responded. "But listen, promise me next time you'll wait for me, okay?"
"Yeah," Annabelle agreed, giving her mom a hug.
Her father, Timothy Ridgeway, says it's only too easy to imagine how differently this could have turned out.
"My mind is wanting to go places, it's hard not to," said Ridgeway. "Thank God for the bus driver."
Jaclyn said this will be Annabelle's first and last solo adventure. She repeatedly thanked all who helped bring her home safely.
"There are no words, he saved my daughter's life," she said of bus driver Harlan Jenifer.
"I'll be forever grateful."
www.6abc.com/news/4-year-old-seeking-slushie-found-alone-at-3-am/575480/
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wow so 4 year olds do wander &%+((£ mcann supporters have said they dont
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so 4 year olds are at risk even when parents are in the house....
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so 4 year olds are at risk even when parents are in the house....
Yes and even more so seemingly.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-12663965
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28483061
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Is this being posted on here in support of the "Woke and wandered" theory?
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Here's on who wasn't so fortunate - with a babysitter.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/struck-654384-bertagna-santa.html
Toddler who was struck, killed by car after wandering away from Santa Ana baby sitter's house ID'd as 1-year-old Costa Mesa boy
March 16, 2015
|Updated 11:18 a.m.
BY SCOTT SCHWEBKE / STAFF WRITER
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A 1-year-old boy who wandered away from a Santa Ana home late Saturday night and was struck and killed by an automobile has been identified as Jesus Alvarez of Costa Mesa, police said.
Around 9:55 p.m. Saturday, officers responded to a report of a small child who had been struck by a vehicle in the 800 block of South Newhope Street, Santa Ana police Cpl. Anthony Bertagna said in a statement.
Officers found Alvarez lying in the roadway at Newhope and Flight Streets, Bertagna said. The boy had been struck by a white Toyota Camry that was traveling north on South Newhope Street.
The driver remained at the scene, and has cooperated with the investigation. Neither intoxication nor speed appears to have been a factor in the crash, and the driver said he did not see the child prior to the crash, police said.
It appears the boy, who was under the care of a baby sitter, wandered away from a house about a block from where he was struck outside of a crosswalk, Bertagna said.
“It looks like a tragic accident, but we will be looking into how the child got out of the house and away from the care and supervision of a baby sitter,” Bertagna said Monday.
Orange County Fire Authority responded to the scene and transported the child to an area hospital, where he later died.
The incident remains under investigation and any person who may have witnessed the crash is asked to call Santa Ana police Detective Weston Hadley at 714-245-8
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Is this being posted on here in support of the "Woke and wandered" theory?
With little Annabelle it wasn't a theory Alf, it was a mission. As pointed out above, some have previously asserted that a four-year-old would never go out on their own after being put to bed at night. This episode sort to blows that view firmly out of the water.
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Here's on who wasn't so fortunate - with a babysitter.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/struck-654384-bertagna-santa.html
Toddler who was struck, killed by car after wandering away from Santa Ana baby sitter's house ID'd as 1-year-old Costa Mesa boy
March 16, 2015
|Updated 11:18 a.m.
BY SCOTT SCHWEBKE / STAFF WRITER
Facebook
Twitter
Email
Comments
PRINT
SEND PDF
A 1-year-old boy who wandered away from a Santa Ana home late Saturday night and was struck and killed by an automobile has been identified as Jesus Alvarez of Costa Mesa, police said.
Around 9:55 p.m. Saturday, officers responded to a report of a small child who had been struck by a vehicle in the 800 block of South Newhope Street, Santa Ana police Cpl. Anthony Bertagna said in a statement.
Officers found Alvarez lying in the roadway at Newhope and Flight Streets, Bertagna said. The boy had been struck by a white Toyota Camry that was traveling north on South Newhope Street.
The driver remained at the scene, and has cooperated with the investigation. Neither intoxication nor speed appears to have been a factor in the crash, and the driver said he did not see the child prior to the crash, police said.
It appears the boy, who was under the care of a baby sitter, wandered away from a house about a block from where he was struck outside of a crosswalk, Bertagna said.
“It looks like a tragic accident, but we will be looking into how the child got out of the house and away from the care and supervision of a baby sitter,” Bertagna said Monday.
Orange County Fire Authority responded to the scene and transported the child to an area hospital, where he later died.
The incident remains under investigation and any person who may have witnessed the crash is asked to call Santa Ana police Detective Weston Hadley at 714-245-8
Wow! ...that's amazing for a one-year-old. My grandson is only 15 months and he has just recently taken to climbing the stairs so I'm not surprised one got out. Poor little mite. 8(8-))
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With little Annabelle it wasn't a theory Alf, it was a mission. As pointed out above, some have previously asserted that a four-year-old would never go out on their own after being put to bed at night. This episode sort to blows that view firmly out of the water.
Re: the bit highlighted above - with respect I don't believe anyone has EVER stated that, unless you can provide evidence to back up this claim? Every child, and every set of circumstances are different. Simply saying that because one child woke and wandered ALL children wake and wander. It's a spurious argument. Madeleine could have woken and wandered, however there is no evidence that she did, and the way the apartment was lef in her absence is evidence to suggest that she did not.
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With little Annabelle it wasn't a theory Alf, it was a mission. As pointed out above, some have previously asserted that a four-year-old would never go out on their own after being put to bed at night. This episode sort to blows that view firmly out of the water.
Perhaps it would be more helpful to cite a case where a child has awoken & wandered, never to be found.
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didnt maddie go missing another night during bedtime she was playing hide and seek and they couldnt find her for 30 minutes?? so why couldnt she have got out
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didnt maddie go missing another night during bedtime she was playing hide and seek and they couldnt find her for 30 minutes?? so why couldnt she have got out
Hang on a minute....I thought you firmly believed the parents dunnit?
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Perhaps it would be more helpful to cite a case where a child has awoken & wandered, never to be found.
The internet is full of stories of young children who woke and wandered, some are found alive but others were not so lucky having succumbed to the elements or been run over. Unless the child is found it is virtually impossible to prove that they woke and wandered of their own volition as against being abducted. This is the predicament in the McCann case, unless Madeleine is found it will be impossible to determine what occurred.
The woke and wandered theory remains very valid in the case of Madeleine's disappearance and particularly so as there is no independent evidence of any intruder, any forced entry, any disturbance or any missing property. Even the alleged sighting of a man carrying a child at around 9.20 pm has now been rubbished by Scotland Yard which raises many more questions than it answers.
In fact, given Madeleine's propensity to waken I find it very hard to believe anyone could have taken her without her bawling the place down.
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The internet is full of stories of young children who woke and wandered, some are found alive but others were not so lucky having succumbed to the elements or been run over. Unless the child is found it is virtually impossible to prove that they woke and wandered of their own volition as against being abducted. This is the predicament in the McCann case, unless Madeleine is found it will be impossible to determine what occurred.
The woke and wandered theory remains very valid in the case of Madeleine's disappearance and particularly so as there is no independent evidence of any intruder, any forced entry, any disturbance or any missing property.
exactly and in reponse to alfie i firmly do believe the mcanns are inplicated in maddie going missing do i think they killed her etc? no thats what happens when you lump people together but whatever did happen to her they are responsible because they were not there for her
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3002742/The-toddler-wandered-Detroit-dead-night-trip-buy-candy-bar-gas-station.html
Here's another one, again in the US, reported in the last fortnight. A happier outcome.
The older children seem to be fully dressed when they wandered. Madeleine wasn't - she hadn't put her shoes on - which makes the "woke & wandered" theory much less credible if you use cited cases in evidence.
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didnt maddie go missing another night during bedtime she was playing hide and seek and they couldnt find her for 30 minutes?? so why couldnt she have got out
Erm, do you have a reliable cite for that, Carly?
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Erm, do you have a reliable cite for that, Carly?
It's what locals claim. But not playing hide and seek. How they knew she didn't always settle, or what time bedtime was, is beyond me
In a further twist, locals now claim that Madeleine did not always settle well. One evening they allege she ran away into the paths between the apartments, hiding for half an hour when it was time for bed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474656/Madeleine-missing-hour-did-McCanns-check-children.html#ixzz3Vn4I6K9i
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It's what locals claim. But not playing hide and seek. How they knew she didn't always settle, or what time bedtime was, is beyond me
In a further twist, locals now claim that Madeleine did not always settle well. One evening they allege she ran away into the paths between the apartments, hiding for half an hour when it was time for bed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474656/Madeleine-missing-hour-did-McCanns-check-children.html#ixzz3Vn4I6K9i
"We drank. So what! We were on holiday."
Interesting article which manages to detail just about every myth in the lexicon ~ Blood ~ Murder ~ the 'pact of silence' ~ Discrepancies in Statements ~ Incriminating phone calls intercepted ~ Timeline ~ Dissing Jane Tanner's sighting etc, etc.
A look at the date ~ 11 August 2007 ~ gives a clue to the impeccable source of the misinformation as the Portuguese press as quoting from the Dairio de Noticias would seem to confirm.
We know so much better now, or if we don't, we should by now.
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It's what locals claim. But not playing hide and seek. How they knew she didn't always settle, or what time bedtime was, is beyond me
In a further twist, locals now claim that Madeleine did not always settle well. One evening they allege she ran away into the paths between the apartments, hiding for half an hour when it was time for bed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474656/Madeleine-missing-hour-did-McCanns-check-children.html#ixzz3Vn4I6K9i
11 Aug 2007, the date of the 'report', plus the source (Daily Mail) says it all. 'Locals now claim that', while others relate 'jemmied shutters'. Wasn't it early Sep 2007 that the McCanns got made arguidos? I wonder what the Daily Mail was speculating about then.
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Children do manage to get out at night and wander, though I thought with Madeleine it wasn't the fact that she could get out of the apartment it was the fact that the curtains on the patio doors were closed, the patio door was closed, the child gate at the top of the steps was closed and the gate at the bottom of the steps was also closed.
I doubt if a child of almost four would bother to close gates behind her. Especially the child gate which was at the top of the steps, it would mean her turning around in the dark to close it.
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11 Aug 2007, the date of the 'report', plus the source (Daily Mail) says it all. 'Locals now claim that', while others relate 'jemmied shutters'. Wasn't it early Sep 2007 that the McCanns got made arguidos? I wonder what the Daily Mail was speculating about then.
I think the leaks to the press were the 'build up' to the ultimate knock out blow of having the McCanns declared arguidos. It should be remembered that had the investigators waited a few days longer the change in Portuguese law would not have allowed that without hard supportive evidence; worth a thought when considering the present investigation.
The little girl who wandered out on her own we are discussing here, was found by a concerned member of the public who alerted the driver before putting her on the bus.
Grangemouth: Toddler wearing one boot found walking along busy street on her own
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/grangemouth-toddler-wearing-one-boot-5423808
The eighteen month old mentioned here was also found wandering by a concerned member of the public who ensured her safety by immediately contacting the authorities.
Why is it considered that if Madeleine McCann had left the apartment in Praia da Luz of her own volition she would certainly have come to harm and have walked into the hands of a predator?
The two examples from different hemispheres of children wandering on their own suggest that is not the necessary outcome for such an adventure.
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Children do manage to get out at night and wander, though I thought with Madeleine it wasn't the fact that she could get out of the apartment it was the fact that the curtains on the patio doors were closed, the patio door was closed, the child gate at the top of the steps was closed and the gate at the bottom of the steps was also closed.
I doubt if a child of almost four would bother to close gates behind her. Especially the child gate which was at the top of the steps, it would mean her turning around in the dark to close it.
If she walked out it would have been by the daily route she was used to ie the front door.
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If she walked out it would have been by the daily route she was used to ie the front door.
Sorry to disagree, but the route she used mainly would likely be the patio door because they would nip back for the loo, forgotten items, snacks, drinks etc. as they sat around the pool.
Either of us could be right, but tbh, John, I doubt that she would like the pitch blackness of the porch area or that walled in passage that had to be mainly negotiated before she would see any light. The car parking area was dark enough without the added darkness and isolation from being too small to see over thta walkway wall
I think the only way she would have ben likely to go was towards the patio door exit ..... but then !
Nah.
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If she walked out it would have been by the daily route she was used to ie the front door.
I thought Kate used the patio doors when leaving the house.