UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Off Topic and General Discussions => Off topic, general discussions and the Wide Awake Club. => Topic started by: mrswah on September 14, 2016, 04:38:26 PM
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We often read about prisoners, especially those convicted of murder, "showing remorse" or "not showing remorse". I remember this often being discussed in relation to Myra Hindley, as her "supporters" said that she was remorseful , and the media and the general public thought she wasn't.
What, in your opinion, does a convicted prisoner have to do to show that he or she is truly sorry for crimes committed?
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How can someone feel remorseful if the didn't actually do it?
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Indeed, that is a big problem, if the person is actually innocent, as I believe they cannot get parole unless they "show remorse". I was thinking more about those who were guilty.
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Indeed, that is a big problem, if the person is actually innocent, as I believe they cannot get parole unless they "show remorse". I was thinking more about those who were guilty.
This is adufficult one, but I would, at least, expect an acceptance of their guilt and and some kind of guesture to relieve the familys suffering in some way.
For an example regarding Hindley, accepting she took part in, and did get some kind of kick from the part she played in the torture, slaughter of children and the subsequent torture for the rest of their families lives. By accepting she facilitated a lot of the torture and withheld information about the where abouts the childrens little bodies were. By accepting her crimes so heinous that she was deserving of public hatred, added to that her denial of her part and using the law to try and gain freedom was seen as selfish,self serving after forgiving herself and 'finding' God. Her attempt at being remorseful never really came across as being genuine. IMO
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Thank you for your reply, Miss Taken Identity (love the name!)
I agree that one should accept one's guilt. I don't know what kind of gesture one can make to the victim's family while you are in prison: a letter perhaps, or a donation to a relevant charity???
As for Myra Hindley, I don't think anyone is ever going to be sure whether she was remorseful or not!
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Restorative Justice has its place but it has to be victim lead. Not all about making the offender get it all off his chest and feel better
When it works, it can work very well
http://www.harrogate-news.co.uk/2016/11/25/police-commissioner-meets-victims-benefited-restorative-justice/
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Thank you for your contribution Jixy.
I was a secondary school teacher for over 30 years, and I didn't find that restorative justice worked in that situation, as teenagers are just not mature enough. They say the right things in front of teachers and parents, and then, behind their backs, go back on their word. I am basically talking about bullying, here. However, I understand that it can work in some situations----with mature adults, and if it does work, it's great. Thank you for the link.
Did you ever see a TV programme called "The Gift"? It was a spin off from "Long Lost Family", but didnt last long! In it, adults who had been bullies or victims of bullying as youngsters, met each other, and made peace. It was very uplifting.
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I didn't see it but sounds interesting. Making peace is good when it happens
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I would agree!
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Sorry, I can't cope with this. All too often innocent people are expected to show remorse for something that they did not do.
Besides, where does remorse come into this when someone is serving a sentence. Why should it be important?
Remorse has nothing to do with what happened.
Either the Justice System works, or it doesn't.
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Eleanor
I was speaking more of guilty people, who have to show remorse before they can be paroled. I was wondering how we can know whether a convicted person is showing remorse, and what they have to do for remorse to be accepted. Just interested, that's all !!
Of course, nobody can expect an innocent person to show remorse if they hadn't done anything wrong in the first place!
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Eleanor
I was speaking more of guilty people, who have to show remorse before they can be paroled. I was wondering how we can know whether a convicted person is showing remorse, and what they have to do for remorse to be accepted. Just interested, that's all !!
Of course, nobody can expect an innocent person to show remorse if they hadn't done anything wrong in the first place!
That was my point. If a guilty person wishes to show remorse then that is fine by me
Unfortunately it is mortal hard to tell the difference..
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Its a strange topic you bring up Mrswah considering Tabak did exactly what you are questioning but yet you don't believe him. Not sure what you expect from the guilty or the innocent.
I know from supporting an innocent friend, people cannot show remorse for something they didn't do even when its expected of them time and time again
Some cases, if people had agreed said they did it showed what was expected of them, they would have done many years less in prison
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Yes, I agree that there are innocent people in prison, who cannot show remorse because they didn't do anything wrong in the first place, and those people cannot get parole because they don't show remorse.
This is very sad, and points to something being very wrong with the system.
My only reason for starting this thread (and I was actually thinking of the guilty more than the innocent) is that convicted people who are guilty sometimes do say they are sorry, but they are not believed. So, I wondered what someone actually has to do to prove they are sorry. Miss Taken Identity gave me a good response yesterday!
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This entire concept completely defeats me. Why should someone who is guilty be forced to admit remorse when quite possibly they do not feel remorse. They have been sentenced for their crime, which is what I thought it was all about. Done the crime. Do the time. That is the end of the matter for me. The last thing I can see sense for is bleeding hearts.
So we now have to address innocent people. So are you telling me that they should admit remorse for a crime that they did not commit because it might get them off a few years? While the really guilty person probably doesn't have a problem at all in his own head.
Remorse should actually have nothing to do with this. It is a morality issue, which has nothing to do with The Law.
No man should be kept in prison for his morals. Keep him there for other reasons, if you wish. But lack of remorse isn't one of them in my book.
Oh, by the way, I wrote the book. It hasn't sold well. But then I never expected that it would.
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I think the reason for the 'remorse' things is simple. Prison should punish and rehbailitate. If someone is innocent they can't show remorse for something they did not do, However if someone has had time to reflect their behaviour and adjusted their thinking on their crime then it would show they had indeed been rehabilitated by prison time and was encouraged to start with a clean slate so to speak. Of course soe people showd remorse for a few weeks then went back to old ways, some reinvented themselves and became great intergrated members of society.
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Remorseful or pathological?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45354026
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Do you think this man showed remorse before being released on license http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6113685/Daughter-warned-mother-hooked-murderer-kill-too.html then re-offending?
Do you think he may have duped the prison authorities; including forensic psychologists etc?
Or do you think the prison authorities and probation services knew of his pathology before he was released to re offend?
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I would think it was almost impossible to tell if a guilty person in prison was genuinely remorseful. Even if Myra Hindley had given the details of where the remaining children were buried it may have been a ploy to get her out of jail as I am sure some that appear to show remorse are aiming for too.
I am sure there are some that genuinely show remorse whilst in prison but the only way to certainly know is whether or not they reoffend once they are out IMO.
I have heard of ex- gang members jailed for being involved in knife crime joining charities and working with young men to try and stop the young men going down their path. They clearly were remorseful.
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I would think it was almost impossible to tell if a guilty person in prison was genuinely remorseful. Even if Myra Hindley had given the details of where the remaining children were buried it may have been a ploy to get her out of jail as I am sure some that appear to show remorse are aiming for too.
Myra Himdley was handed down a full life tariff, meaning even if she had disclosed where the remaining children were it would not have made any difference. Do you have another example in order to explain what you mean?
Whatt is your understanding of "remorse?" And how do you rehabilitate someone with a pervasive anti social personality disorder? Is it possible to do so?
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I would think it was almost impossible to tell if a guilty person in prison was genuinely remorseful.
I am sure there are some that genuinely show remorse whilst in prison but the only way to certainly know is whether or not they reoffend once they are out IMO.
The question was: "How can we tell if a prisoner is remorseful?"
So do you think is it "impossible" or only possible "when a prisoner is released and they don't reoffend?
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I have heard of ex- gang members jailed for being involved in knife crime joining charities and working with young men to try and stop the young men going down their path. They clearly were remorseful.
You've referred to "Myra Hindley" and "ex gang members involved in knife crime"
Do you think the type of crimes a prisoner commits makes a difference in them being able to show remorse?
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I would think it was almost impossible to tell if a guilty person in prison was genuinely remorseful. Even if Myra Hindley had given the details of where the remaining children were buried it may have been a ploy to get her out of jail as I am sure some that appear to show remorse are aiming for too.
I am sure there are some that genuinely show remorse whilst in prison but the only way to certainly know is whether or not they reoffend once they are out IMO.
I have heard of ex- gang members jailed for being involved in knife crime joining charities and working with young men to try and stop the young men going down their path. They clearly were remorseful.
What if Jeremy Bamber were to finally confess to his crimes of mass murder? Would a confession suggest he was showing remorse?
Is Stephen Port remorseful? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45362553
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Myra Himdley was handed down a full life tariff, meaning even if she had disclosed where the remaining children were it would not have made any difference. Do you have another example in order to explain what you mean?
Whatt is your understanding of "remorse?" And how do you rehabilitate someone with a pervasive anti social personality disorder? Is it possible to do so?
My understanding of remorse is being truly sorry for what you have done and wished you hadn't done it, also being prepared to try to make amends to the victims as much as you can.
I have no experience of anyone with a pervasive anti social personality disorder so cannot answer that at all.
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The question was: "How can we tell if a prisoner is remorseful?"
So do you think is it "impossible" or only possible "when a prisoner is released and they don't reoffend?
I would say it would be possible to have an educated guess that someone was genuinely remorseful when they are out of jail but it would not always be possible as it would depend upon how manipulative the ex prisoner is.
The person I heard on the radio (ex knife crime gang member) was almost certainly remorseful as he was spending time with the charity going around schools trying to get young people not to follow his path. If he hadn't been remorseful he would not have bothered IMO.
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What if Jeremy Bamber were to finally confess to his crimes of mass murder? Would a confession suggest he was showing remorse?
Is Stephen Port remorseful? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45362553
I know nothing of either case apart from a very little I have read about the Bamber case. No IMO if he was in jail and confessed it would not be proof of remorse or regret although with other things that he did may be an indication that he was remorseful.
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My understanding of remorse is being truly sorry for what you have done and wished you hadn't done it, also being prepared to try to make amends to the victims as much as you can.
I have no experience of anyone with a pervasive anti social personality disorder so cannot answer that at all.
What about Myra Hindley? https://delphinejamet.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/psychological-theories-myra-hindley/
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I know nothing of either case apart from a very little I have read about the Bamber case. No IMO if he was in jail and confessed it would not be proof of remorse or regret although with other things that he did may be an indication that he was remorseful.
What other things?
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What other things?
Apologies that was clumsily put. I have not read up on what Bamber has or hasn't done. I was not talking about Bamber I was talking in a general sense about what some prisoners may or may not have done.
Again I also know next to nothing about Myra Hindley either.
You may find this interesting Stephanie
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/after-committing-a-crime-guilt-and-shame-predict-re-offense.html
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What if Jeremy Bamber were to finally confess to his crimes of mass murder? Would a confession suggest he was showing remorse?
Is Stephen Port remorseful? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45362553
No I don't think a confession can be associated with remorse in evry instance. It also depends on the crime and the motivation for commiting the crime.
Hindley was groomed by Brady- that is very clear, however, that does not absolve her in any way as this was a sexual driven crime and sexual driven crimes are commited through choice. As an example; a paedophile will never show remorse- as they enjoy what they do. it is a lifestyle choice. A gang member who killed on command by the leader could have remorse after he/she leaves the gang hold mentality.
I would say it depends on the crime,the motive, the age to establish an opinion on each prisoners remorsefulness.
Addicts are not to be trusted, some come back from the brink and some don't.
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No I don't think a confession can be associated with remorse in evry instance. It also depends on the crime and the motivation for commiting the crime.
Hindley was groomed by Brady- that is very clear, however, that does not absolve her in any way as this was a sexual driven crime and sexual driven crimes are commited through choice. As an example; a paedophile will never show remorse- as they enjoy what they do. it is a lifestyle choice. A gang member who killed on command by the leader could have remorse after he/she leaves the gang hold mentality.
I would say it depends on the crime,the motive, the age to establish an opinion on each prisoners remorsefulness.
Addicts are not to be trusted, some come back from the brink and some don't.
This school teacher is throwing his very own pity party https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OJw1QyoubaU#
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qlgT7SgCdBg