UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on April 24, 2017, 02:58:50 PM
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So what does everyone think this will be?
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So what does everyone think this will be?
how reliable is the information that there is going to be an announcement
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Is Heri not privy to that?
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Maybe there is an arrest happening today, the only other thing I can think of is despite the additional funding, the investigation team have drawn a blank
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Maybe there is an arrest happening today, the only other thing I can think of is despite the additional funding, the investigation team have drawn a blank
An arrest would seem unlikely, as they have been advertising they are searching for someone.
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Who knows? Perhaps they will say that The McCanns have been investigated and Ruled Out.
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Who knows? Perhaps they will say that The McCanns have been investigated and Ruled Out.
Didn't Redwood already indicate that before he drew his pension?
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Didn't Redwood already indicate that before he drew his pension?
Not in those actual words, rather that he really wasn't interested in them. I can understand that 8(0(*
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Didn't Redwood already indicate that before he drew his pension?
I thought so, but some do not agree.
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Perhaps they are going to announce that the McCanns dunnit.
*&*%£
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The deputy director of the Judicial Police, Pedro do Carmo, has affirmed the Portuguese continuation of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance until either she is found or the inquiry runs out of further options.
http://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/caso-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-continua-aberto-na-policia-judiciaria?ref=HP_Grupo1
Perhaps Scotland Yard are following suit.
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Where did the information about an imminent announcement come from?
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The deputy director of the Judicial Police, Pedro do Carmo, has affirmed the Portuguese continuation of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance until either she is found or the inquiry runs out of further options.
http://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/caso-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-continua-aberto-na-policia-judiciaria?ref=HP_Grupo1
Perhaps Scotland Yard are following suit.
Translation of the article Brietta links to:
The Judicial Police continues to investigate Madeleine McCann's disappearance in 2007 in the Algarve, admitting that it is "a unique case in the history of the PJ and the country." "The case is still open, yes," and the investigation was handed over to a team from PJ do Porto, revealed the deputy director of the Judicial Police, Pedro do Carmo, in an interview with the Lusa agency, about the ten years of the disappearance of the Bichana , Then three years old, from the tourist resort Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, Lagos. For PJ number two, the outlines of Maddie's disappearance are "a unique case in the history of the country and the PJ." "We had never had a similar case nor did we have it," said Pedro do Carmo, admitting that the police "have every interest in knowing what happened, because this is the way to draw conclusions for future situations." Asked if the long time elapsed is the enemy of the investigation, the official admitted that "PJ is aware that, as time passes, it will become more difficult to reach answers or results." "Anyway we have this hope and we have reason to have this hope," he said.
Read more in: http://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/caso-do-disaparecimento-de-maddie-continua-aberto-na-polici-judiciaria?
A communication (commendably) scant on detail (the public have no automatic right to know) and very similar to a model adopted in England when information is released publicly about a current and on-going investigation.
A compromise from the clamp of absolute secrecy (at least demanded) of a criminal investigation in Portugal at the time Madeleine disappeared broadly akin to the approach (now) adopted in England by our sub judice laws, which allow release of (limited) information about a live, and on-going police investigation.
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Translation of the article Brietta links to:
Read more in: http://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/caso-do-disaparecimento-de-maddie-continua-aberto-na-polici-judiciaria?
A communication (commendably) scant on detail (the public have no automatic right to know) and very similar to a model adopted in England when information is released publicly about a current and on-going investigation.
A compromise from the clamp of absolute secrecy (at least demanded) of a criminal investigation in Portugal at the time Madeleine disappeared broadly akin to the approach (now) adopted in England by our sub judice laws, which allow release of (limited) information about a live, and on-going police investigation.
What grabbed by attention when reading that was ... "Anyway we have this hope and we have reason to have this hope,"
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What grabbed by attention when reading that was ... "Anyway we have this hope and we have reason to have this hope,"
Isn't it strange?
I completely missed that last sentence.
But yes!
Sadly, stuff I've picked up from elsewhere would not seem to corroborate that note of optimism.
We'll see ....
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ITV News have just announed that SY will be issuing an update on the Madeleine McCann case tomorrow.
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Nothing Operation Grange say tomorrow is going to convince some sceptics that the McCanns are not suspects.
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It might be sensible to wait and see what SY have to say rather than trying to start an argument before the event.
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It might be sensible to wait and see what SY have to say rather than trying to start an argument before the event.
So tell us, what would the Met need to say tomorrow to convince you that the McCanns are not suspects?
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So tell us, what would the Met need to say tomorrow to convince you that the McCanns are not suspects?
A written confession from the Tapas 7 that they did it. At least then the ant is will be able to say that their god Amaral was nearly right.
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So what does everyone think this will be?
A failure?
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So what does everyone think this will be?
I'm hoping they will confirm there was an earlier incident.
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So tell us, what would the Met need to say tomorrow to convince you that the McCanns are not suspects?
Well. According to the McCann's latest update;
There are no new appeals that the police wish to make at this moment in time and so we are keeping any media involvement marking this unwanted milestone to a minimum.
http://findmadeleine.com/updates/index.html
So not an appeal. I wonder if SY are still arranging interviews for them as per Mitchell? They can keep their involvement with the media to a minimum, but they can't stop the media writing it's silly stories about the case.
According to Operation Grange's remit they are investigating an abduction, so the parents have never been suspects.
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Well. According to the McCann's latest update;
There are no new appeals that the police wish to make at this moment in time and so we are keeping any media involvement marking this unwanted milestone to a minimum.
http://findmadeleine.com/updates/index.html
So not an appeal. I wonder if SY are still arranging interviews for them as per Mitchell? They can keep their involvement with the media to a minimum, but they can't stop the media writing it's silly stories about the case.
According to Operation Grange's remit they are investigating an abduction, so the parents have never been suspects.
Correct. With regard to Operation Grange the McCanns have never been suspects. Shame it hasn't quite sunk in with everyone yet.
So given that you accept this, why do you think Operation Grange is investigating an abduction and not parental involvement?
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Correct. With regard to Operation Grange the McCanns have never been suspects. Shame it hasn't quite sunk in with everyone yet.
So given that you accept this, why do you think Operation Grange is investigating an abduction and not parental involvement?
Evasion AlfiE, but predictable.
OG hasn't questioned the McCann's, or the rest of the group.
The cause of Madeleine's disappearance remains unknown.
Oh yes, and there is F.A. evidence, including no forensics, to show anyone else in the apartment that night.
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Well. According to the McCann's latest update;
There are no new appeals that the police wish to make at this moment in time and so we are keeping any media involvement marking this unwanted milestone to a minimum.
http://findmadeleine.com/updates/index.html
So not an appeal. I wonder if SY are still arranging interviews for them as per Mitchell? They can keep their involvement with the media to a minimum, but they can't stop the media writing it's silly stories about the case.
According to Operation Grange's remit they are investigating an abduction, so the parents have never been suspects.
As I have pointed out and provided cites the remit did not appear at the start of the review but 6 months later
Time for the parents to be interviewed and ruled out
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Evasion AlfiE, but predictable.
OG hasn't questioned the McCann's, or the rest of the group.
The cause of Madeleine's disappearance remains unknown.
Oh yes, and there is F.A. evidence, including no forensics, to show anyone else in the apartment that night.
You are stating opinion as fact again
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You are stating opinion as fact again
Abduction is an opinion.
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Abduction is an opinion.
Abduction is an option not an opinion.
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Correct. With regard to Operation Grange the McCanns have never been suspects. Shame it hasn't quite sunk in with everyone yet.
So given that you accept this, why do you think Operation Grange is investigating an abduction and not parental involvement?
Because their remit was to investigate abduction, which is what I said.
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Because their remit was to investigate abduction, which is what I said.
Presumably then no evidence has come to light that points to parental involvement otherwise they would be duty bound to investigate it would they not?
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not according to davel he inists maddie was abducted
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What I have said is that if the parents have been ruled out then abduction is the most likely scenario and it seems the experts agree with me
I believe Maddie was abducted
Am I allowed an opinion
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No
What I have said is that if the parents have been ruled out then abduction is the most likely scenario and it seems the experts agree with me
I believe Maddie was abducted
Am I allowed an opinion
but was that from the apartment or from outside?
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Presumably then no evidence has come to light that points to parental involvement otherwise they would be duty bound to investigate it would they not?
There is no evidence of abduction Alfie.
likewise, when it comes to stats, as regards missing children...........
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What you don't understand is that you complain about abduction Beijing stated as fact but state that the McCanns have not been interviewed as fact...that is inconsistent and hypocritical
Beijing ?
No evidence of abduction, and no evidence the McCann'S and co., were interviewed by OG.
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No
What I have said is that if the parents have been ruled out then abduction is the most likely scenario and it seems the experts agree with me
I believe Maddie was abducted
Am I allowed an opinion
Experts agree with dave ? @)(++(* @)(++(*
Which experts agree with you, and of course which ones don't ?
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Well. According to the McCann's latest update;
There are no new appeals that the police wish to make at this moment in time and so we are keeping any media involvement marking this unwanted milestone to a minimum.
http://findmadeleine.com/updates/index.html
So not an appeal. I wonder if SY are still arranging interviews for them as per Mitchell? They can keep their involvement with the media to a minimum, but they can't stop the media writing it's silly stories about the case.
According to Operation Grange's remit they are investigating an abduction, so the parents have never been suspects.
Was the remit for the review or the investigation proper
ETA The remit was for the review not the investigation proper as far as I can see.
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Beijing ?
No evidence of abduction, and no evidence the McCann'S and co., were interviewed by OG.
So we don't know for certain Maddie was abducted and we don't know for certain if the McCanns have or have not been interviewed
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Presumably then no evidence has come to light that points to parental involvement otherwise they would be duty bound to investigate it would they not?
Not if they were part of a massive conspiracy - involving MI5, numerous heads of government, the FSS, the church, the Masons, etc etc - and of course Lorraine Kelly. (sigh)
The idea that SY would deliberately ignore evidence which pointed to parental involvement is too ridiculous for words IMO.
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So we don't know for certain Maddie was abducted and we don't know for certain if the McCanns have or have not been interviewed
Yup. Not much to show for 10 years armchair sleuthing.
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Not if they were part of a massive conspiracy - involving MI5, numerous heads of government, the FSS, the church, the Masons, etc etc - and of course Lorraine Kelly. (sigh)
The idea that SY would deliberately ignore evidence which pointed to parental involvement is too ridiculous for words IMO.
I was disappointed that GA didn't go further into the MI5 theory.
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So we don't know for certain Maddie was abducted and we don't know for certain if the McCanns have or have not been interviewed
Yes, nae evidence for abduction, yet that is all apparently OG have been investigating.
8)-)))
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Yes, nae evidence for abduction, yet that is all apparently OG have been investigating.
8)-)))
OG may have evidence for abduction that you don't know about.
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Presumably then no evidence has come to light that points to parental involvement otherwise they would be duty bound to investigate it would they not?
I have no idea how these things work, so I can't answer that question. I do know that in most hierarchical organisations your duty is to follow the orders of your superiors.
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OG may have evidence for abduction that you don't know about.
Yet, have they found how she disappeared from the apartment ?
Have they discovered her fate ?
A resounding NO, to both of those questions.
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I have no idea how these things work, so I can't answer that question. I do know that in most hierarchical organisations your duty is to follow the orders of your superiors.
It is very easy to blow the whistle if you do not agree with what you are being asked to do
Anonymously on the net would be perfect
It seems every member of the met is happy with the way Grange is being run
Not one dissenting post
If the McCanns had not been investigated do you think we would not have heard by now
It's ludicrous to suggest we wouldnt
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I was disappointed that GA didn't go further into the MI5 theory.
One thing is for sure IMO - and that is if MI5 did have any involvement - no-one (including Amaral) would ever know a thing about it. It's not called the secret service for nothing.
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One thing is for sure IMO - and that is if MI5 did have any involvement - no-one (including Amaral) would ever know a thing about it. It's not called the secret service for nothing.
Well I can't argue against that.
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I have no idea how these things work, so I can't answer that question. I do know that in most hierarchical organisations your duty is to follow the orders of your superiors.
I can't think of any reason on God's earth why those in charge of Operation Grange would be ordered to overlook any evidence pointing at the McCanns' involvement in their child's disappearance can you?
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I can't think of any reason on God's earth why those in charge of Operation Grange would be ordered to overlook any evidence pointing at the McCanns' involvement in their child's disappearance can you?
For once we are in agreement Alfie.
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It is very easy to blow the whistle if you do not agree with what you are being asked to do
Anonymously on the net would be perfect
It seems every member of the met is happy with the way Grange is being run
Not one dissenting post
If the McCanns had not been investigated do you think we would not have heard by now
It's ludicrous to suggest we wouldnt
In order to whistle-blow you need to be in possession of all the facts. You then need to be brave enough to accept that it could seriously damage your job/promotion prospects. It's not an easy decision at all, it's a very difficult one.
Posting anonymously on the internet is no good; no-one will believe it.
If the McCanns have been investigated and cleared by Operation Grange why don't SY say so and end the speculation? The point of the investigative review was to help the parents, according to Cameron. How better than to announce they have been investigated and cleared?
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One thing is for sure IMO - and that is if MI5 did have any involvement - no-one (including Amaral) would ever know a thing about it. It's not called the secret service for nothing.
A very good point indeed. I do find it very hard to believe that a missing child would be considered by the foreign signals to be a threat to the constitution requiring their specialist services. It's far easier to believe the embassy officials called in consultants and crisis management specialists than military signals.
Additionally, what would signals be expected to do?
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Is this the announcement we are waiting for, or old news dressed up as new?
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
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Is this the announcement we are waiting for, or old news dressed up as new?
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
He says however Maddie left the apartment she was abducted
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Which fits in with the abduction-only remit
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Abduction, yet again, is a belief.
That is all it is.
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Is this the announcement we are waiting for, or old news dressed up as new?
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
To use a phrase that could have been said by Clouseau.
The statement says everything, but nothing at all.
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Well, that simply says they are still investigating and won't discuss any details. If you think about it an abduction could mean anything. I think after all this time all options are viable and as I heard Barclay say in a soundbite on the Australian documentary it's virtually impossible in this case to give more weight to one theory over another - at least on the info we have. Spare a thought for the McCanns - if they are not responsible than they have endured some bullshit and it goes to show how folks love a witch hunt.
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Not convinced it is today's promised announcement as it appeared very early and doesn't seem to have been picked up by any of the major tabloids.
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There is no update yet on the Met website on the OG page.
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It confirms that they weren't investigated, in a case where how the disappearance occurred remains undetermined.
By any logic in an open case, all possibilities should be open to investigation.
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A very good point indeed. I do find it very hard to believe that a missing child would be considered by the foreign signals to be a threat to the constitution requiring their specialist services. It's far easier to believe the embassy officials called in consultants and crisis management specialists than military signals.
Additionally, what would signals be expected to do?
I'm not so sure, you know.
I reckon decent UK citizens probably do need protection from hostile foreign elements like Goncalo Amaral ....
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/
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I'm not so sure, you know.
I reckon decent UK citizens probably do need protection from hostile foreign elements like Goncalo Amaral ....
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/
MI5 is domestic intelligence ferryman, if any services were involved it would have been MI6 or one of the more clandestine operational signals which makes it even more unlikely as Madeline disappearing was not a direct threat to the crown or sovereignty
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MI5 is domestic intelligence ferryman, if any services were involved it would have been MI6 or one of the more clandestine operational signals which makes it even more unlikely as Madeline disappearing was not a direct threat to the crown or sovereignty
I was being facetious, TS o;)
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I was being facetious, TS o;)
Ah sorry missed that 8(0(*
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Members posting from newspaper articles should not post opinion within said articles unless it is crystal clear to the reader that said opinion is not part of the article. In addition, members posting quotes from online press articles should include a link to said article as a matter of courtesy.
Admin
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ITV lunchtime news; still expecting an announcement from SY later today.
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http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
British detectives working on the Madeleine McCann case are still pursuing “critical” leads as the 10th anniversary of her disappearance approaches, a Scotland Yard chief has revealed.
Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said there are “significant investigative avenues” that are of “great interest” to both the UK and Portuguese teams.
A joint Portuguese-Anglo enquiry
Gerry and Kate McCann whose daughter Madeleine disappeared from a holiday flat in Portugal ten years ago.
Gerry and Kate McCann whose daughter Madeleine disappeared from a holiday flat in Portugal ten years ago.
Officers have sifted through some 40,000 documents and looked at more than 600 individuals since 2011.
In an interview nearly a decade on from the youngster’s disappearance, Mr Rowley also confirmed that four people considered as possible suspects in 2013 have been ruled out.
Kate and Gerry not amongst them
Madeleine vanished from the family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal on May 3 2007 when she was three years old.
Her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, of Rothley, Leicestershire, have vowed to “never give up” hope of finding their daughter.
Asked if police were any closer to solving the case than they were six years ago when the UK investigation was launched, Mr Rowley said: “I know we have a significant line of inquiry which is worth pursuing, and because it’s worth pursuing it could provide an answer, but until we’ve gone through it I won’t know whether we are going to get there or not.
“Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly.”
A joint enquiry
He declined to expand on the nature of the working theories or reveal whether any suspects were currently being considered, saying that disclosing further detail would not help the investigation.
Mr Rowley said: “We’ve got some critical lines of inquiry, those link to particular hypotheses, but I’m not going to discuss those because those are very much live investigation.
“We’ve got some thoughts on what we think the most likely explanations might be and we are pursuing those.”
He described the possibility of a “burglary gone wrong” as a “sensible hypothesis” which has not been “entirely ruled out”.
Clearly Kate and Gerry not suspects
The senior officer was asked about the theory of a sex predator being responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance.
Mr Rowley said: “That’s been one key line of inquiry. The reality is in the modern world in any urban area if you cast your net widely you will find a whole pattern of offences.
“You will find sex offenders who live nearby. And those coincidences need to be sifted out, what’s a coincidence and what may be linked to the investigation that you are currently doing.
“Offences which may be linked have to be looked at and either ruled in or ruled out.”
Mr Rowley said there was still a “lot unknown” in the case, adding: “All the different hypotheses have to remain open.”
Police have looked at more than 600 individuals who were identified as being potentially significant to Madeleine’s disappearance.
In 2013 the team identified four people as suspects in the case. Interviews and searches were carried out but no evidence was found to implicate the four in the disappearance.
Mr Rowley said they are no longer the subject of further investigation and have been ruled out of the inquiry.
Meanwhile, police working on the case continue to receive information on a daily basis.
Mr Rowley said: “Thousands of pieces of information have come forward, some useful, some not, but amongst that have been some nuggets that have thrown some extra light on the original material that came from the time.
“That’s one of the things that’s helped us make progress and have some critical lines of inquiry we want to pursue today.”
Mr Rowley said there was no “definitive evidence” as to whether Madeleine is alive or dead.
No definitive evidence of Madeleine's fate
He added: “That’s why we describe it as a missing person inquiry. We understand why, after this many years, people will be pessimistic, but it’s important we keep an open mind.”
The officer added that however Madeleine left the apartment, she was abducted.
Madeleine was abducted. 'Woke and wandered' ruled out.
“She wasn’t old enough to make a decision to set off and start her own life,” he said.
The assistant commissioner pledged that the investigation team will do all they can to provide an answer for Madeleine’s parents.
Kate and Gerry in the loop. Not suspects.
He said: “I so wish I could say we will definitely solve it but a small number of cases sadly don’t get solved.
“What I’ve always said on this case, and I’ve said it to Kate and Gerry as well, we will do everything reasonably possible to try and find an answer.
Kate and Gerry not suspects.
“I just can’t quite guarantee it. It always hurts that you can’t guarantee success but we will do everything we reasonably can do to try and get there.”
Around 30 detectives were working on the UK probe, Operation Grange, when it was established in 2011. The team has now been scaled back to four detectives.
Last month the Home Office confirmed £85,000 was being given to the inquiry to cover operational costs from April to September. More than £11 million has been spent on the inquiry so far.
Mr Rowley insisted the investigation has achieved “an awful lot”.
He said: “I think people get seduced perhaps by what they see in TV dramas where the most complex cases are solved in 30 minutes or 60 minutes. What we started with here was something extraordinary.
“We’ve achieved a complete understanding of it all. We’ve sifted out many of the potential suspects, many of the people of interest and where we are today is with a much smaller team focused on a small number of remaining critical lines of inquiry that we think are significant.”
Asked about the cost of the investigation, he said: “Big cases can take a lot of resources and a lot of time.
“We’ve tried to be careful about public money and as we’ve started with that massive sifting we’ve reduced the number of resources and the funding’s reduced accordingly.
“But we will stick with it as long as the funding’s available and as long as there are sensible lines of inquiry to pursue.”
Who, now is going to speculate that Kate and Gerry are suspects?
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There will be a spokesman from SY on LBC radio at 9 pm today.
The Clive Bull program.
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If this latest effort from SY is anything to go by nothing has changed for all the millions they have spent on this case while sitting on their backsides in London. Bottom line is they still haven't a baldy clue what happened to Madeleine McCann and the clues are all there in the language used in the Evening Post article.
Any serious investigation of a missing child would see an office set up in the area from where they disappeared. I'm afraid nobody is fooled by SY and their bland excuses.
The officer added that however Madeleine left the apartment, she was abducted.
“She wasn’t old enough to make a decision to set off and start her own life,” he said.
The child was 3-years-old so what sort of a comment was this? A totally inappropriate and very sarcastic one.
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If this latest effort from SY is anything to go by nothing has changed for all the millions they have spent on this case while sitting on their backsides in London. Bottom line is they still haven't a baldy clue what happened to Madeleine McCann and the clues are all there in the language used in the Evening Post article.
Any serious investigation of a missing child would see an office set up in the area from where they disappeared. I'm afraid nobody is fooled by SY and their bland excuses.
It does make clear that the conclusions reached around September 2007 are completely wrong.
That is, not all the conclusions, but, specifically, the conclusions of the Almeida Interim report.
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If this latest effort from SY is anything to go by nothing has changed for all the millions they have spent on this case while sitting on their backsides in London. Bottom line is they still haven't a baldy clue what happened to Madeleine McCann and the clues are all there in the language used in the Evening Post article.
Any serious investigation of a missing child would see an office set up in the area from where they disappeared. I'm afraid nobody is fooled by SY and their bland excuses.
Not one major media outlet televised this "update" then?
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It does make clear that the conclusions reached around September 2007 are completely wrong.
That is, not all the conclusions, but, specifically, the conclusions of the Almeida Interim report.
I fear they are groping in the dark fm.
As seen in the latest documentary from Channel 7, an increasing number of seasoned investigators are coming to the conclusion that she got out and met with an accident. Abduction and concealment of a cadaver was then a very real possibility to cover up such an accident. Certainly the evidence from two sniffer dogs places fresh scent across the road from mini reception where it mysteriously disappeared just like Madeleine.
If this theory is ever proved it will create some difficulty for the parents.
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I fear they are groping in the dark fm.
As seen in the latest documentary from Channel 7, an increasing number of seasoned investigators are coming to the conclusion that she got out and met with an accident. Abduction and concealment of a cadaver was then a very real possibility to cover up such an accident. Certainly the evidence from two sniffer dogs places fresh scent across the road from mini reception where it mysteriously disappeared just like Madeleine.
If this theory is ever proved it will create some difficulty for the parents.
My theory has always been that she woke and wandered immediately after Gerry visit to check on her and the twins. She maybe heard him go out and followed hearing his voice outside. There were reports of a parked car in the street, maybe she just ran out in front of someone who had drink on them?
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My theory has always been that she woke and wandered immediately after Gerry visit to check on her and the twins. She maybe heard him go out and followed hearing his voice outside.
Then why did the archiving report say physically this was unlikely..
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Then why did the archiving report say physically this was unlikely..
Presumably that's what they thought - at the time. Now, who knows what they think
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http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
Who, now is going to speculate that Kate and Gerry are suspects?
When Mr Rowley makes comments like:
"Mr Rowley said there was still a “lot unknown” in the case, adding: “All the different hypotheses have to remain open.”
and
“That’s why we describe it as a missing person inquiry. We understand why, after this many years, people will be pessimistic, but it’s important we keep an open mind.”
It looks like a case of no favourites and 6/4 the field, with no clues as to what the field comprises.
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Then why did the archiving report say physically this was unlikely..
Unlikely but not impossible opens up all sorts of possibilities. How many child abduction cases have ended with the children coming home after people claimed it was unlikely they were still alive?
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When Mr Rowley makes comments like:
"Mr Rowley said there was still a “lot unknown” in the case, adding: “All the different hypotheses have to remain open.”
and
“That’s why we describe it as a missing person inquiry. We understand why, after this many years, people will be pessimistic, but it’s important we keep an open mind.”
It looks like a case of no favourites and 6/4 the field, with no clues as to what the field comprises.
Mr Rowley said there was no “definitive evidence” as to whether Madeleine is alive or dead.
In what sense would you say that is supportive of the Almeida Interim Report, or the theme of Amaral's book?
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Is this the announcement we are waiting for, or old news dressed up as new?
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
The article can't be seen through this link anymore.
When I tried it before, it was there.
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The article can't be seen through this link anymore.
When I tried it before, it was there.
How interesting. Maybe it shouldn't have been released at that time. &%+((£
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How interesting. Maybe it shouldn't have been released at that time. &%+((£
So a premature release.
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Maybe. No doubt we shall see if it differs much from what we are going to hear later tonight.
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How interesting. Maybe it shouldn't have been released at that time. &%+((£
The only interesting point I can see in it is that the 4 arguidos from July 2014 seem no longer to be in the frame.
There is nothing in it I can see that would be press-embargoed, so why the link is not working is a mystery to me.
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Madeleine McCann hunt police ‘pursuing significant line of inquiry’ ten years on
British detectives working on the Madeleine McCann case are still pursuing “critical” leads as the 10th anniversary of her disappearance approaches, a Scotland Yard chief has revealed.
Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said there are “significant investigative avenues” that are of “great interest” to both the UK and Portuguese teams.
Officers have sifted through some 40,000 documents and looked at more than 600 individuals since 2011. In an interview nearly a decade on from the youngster’s disappearance, Mr Rowley also confirmed that four people considered as possible suspects in 2013 have been ruled out.
Madeleine vanished from the family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal on May 3 2007 when she was three years old. Her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, of Rothley, Leicestershire, have vowed to “never give up” hope of finding their daughter.
Asked if police were any closer to solving the case than they were six years ago when the UK investigation was launched, Mr Rowley said: “I know we have a significant line of inquiry which is worth pursuing, and because it’s worth pursuing it could provide an answer, but until we’ve gone through it I won’t know whether we are going to get there or not. “Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly.”
He declined to expand on the nature of the working theories or reveal whether any suspects were currently being considered, saying that disclosing further detail would not help the investigation. Mr Rowley said: “We’ve got some critical lines of inquiry, those link to particular hypotheses, but I’m not going to discuss those because those are very much live investigation. “We’ve got some thoughts on what we think the most likely explanations might be and we are pursuing those.” He described the possibility of a “burglary gone wrong” as a “sensible hypothesis” which has not been “entirely ruled out”.
The senior officer was asked about the theory of a sex predator being responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance. Mr Rowley said: “That’s been one key line of inquiry. The reality is in the modern world in any urban area if you cast your net widely you will find a whole pattern of offences. “You will find sex offenders who live nearby. And those coincidences need to be sifted out, what’s a coincidence and what may be linked to the investigation that you are currently doing. “Offences which may be linked have to be looked at and either ruled in or ruled out.” Mr Rowley said there was still a “lot unknown” in the case, adding: “All the different hypotheses have to remain open.”
Police have looked at more than 600 individuals who were identified as being potentially significant to Madeleine’s disappearance. In 2013 the team identified four people as suspects in the case. Interviews and searches were carried out but no evidence was found to implicate the four in the disappearance.
Mr Rowley said they are no longer the subject of further investigation and have been ruled out of the inquiry. Meanwhile, police working on the case continue to receive information on a daily basis.
Mr Rowley said: “Thousands of pieces of information have come forward, some useful, some not, but amongst that have been some nuggets that have thrown some extra light on the original material that came from the time. “That’s one of the things that’s helped us make progress and have some critical lines of inquiry we want to pursue today.”
Mr Rowley said there was no “definitive evidence” as to whether Madeleine is alive or dead. He added: “That’s why we describe it as a missing person inquiry. We understand why, after this many years, people will be pessimistic, but it’s important we keep an open mind.” The officer added that however Madeleine left the apartment, she was abducted. “She wasn’t old enough to make a decision to set off and start her own life,” he said.
The assistant commissioner pledged that the investigation team will do all they can to provide an answer for Madeleine’s parents. He said: “I so wish I could say we will definitely solve it but a small number of cases sadly don’t get solved.
“What I’ve always said on this case, and I’ve said it to Kate and Gerry as well, we will do everything reasonably possible to try and find an answer. “I just can’t quite guarantee it. It always hurts that you can’t guarantee success but we will do everything we reasonably can do to try and get there."
Around 30 detectives were working on the UK probe, Operation Grange, when it was established in 2011. The team has now been scaled back to four detectives. Last month the Home Office confirmed £85,000 was being given to the inquiry to cover operational costs from April to September. More than £11 million has been spent on the inquiry so far.
Mr Rowley insisted the investigation has achieved “an awful lot”. He said: “I think people get seduced perhaps by what they see in TV dramas where the most complex cases are solved in 30 minutes or 60 minutes. What we started with here was something extraordinary. “We’ve achieved a complete understanding of it all.
We’ve sifted out many of the potential suspects, many of the people of interest and where we are today is with a much smaller team focused on a small number of remaining critical lines of inquiry that we think are significant.”
Asked about the cost of the investigation, he said: “Big cases can take a lot of resources and a lot of time. “We’ve tried to be careful about public money and as we’ve started with that massive sifting we’ve reduced the number of resources and the funding’s reduced accordingly. “But we will stick with it as long as the funding’s available and as long as there are sensible lines of inquiry to pursue.” ends
Read more at: http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
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Mr Rowley said there was no “definitive evidence” as to whether Madeleine is alive or dead.
In what sense would you say that is supportive of the Almeida Interim Report, or the theme of Amaral's book?
I was referring to what Mr Rowley said. In that context Sr Amaral's book and The Almeida Report have no relevance.
My point, however, remains relevant.
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I was referring to what Mr Rowley said. In that context Sr Amaral's book and The Almeida Report have no relevance.
My point, however, remains relevant.
Ah!
Mr Rowley said there was no “definitive evidence” as to whether Madeleine is alive or dead. He added: “That’s why we describe it as a missing person inquiry. We understand why, after this many years, people will be pessimistic, but it’s important we keep an open mind.” The officer added that however Madeleine left the apartment, she was abducted. “She wasn’t old enough to make a decision to set off and start her own life,” he said.
What Mr Rowley said.
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I was referring to what Mr Rowley said. In that context Sr Amaral's book and The Almeida Report have no relevance.
My point, however, remains relevant.
Who spoke to Mark Rowley when there are no other media reports on this "update" & still nothing on the Met website?
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Who spoke to Mark Rowley when there are no other media reports on this "update" & still nothing on the Met website?
How would I know that?. I suggest you phone OG to receive an accurate answer.
I was only posting to ferryman's post which contained the article. Ferryman seems to think the article is kosher.
I wouldn't know whether that is so either.
If it is kosher it would seem OG, by admission of a senior officer, don't know gee from haw.
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Seems the Yorkshire Evening Post has jumped the gun and published too early. Thus the reason why the link now goes to a 'sorry' page.
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
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Madeleine McCann hunt police ‘pursuing significant line of inquiry’ ten years on
British detectives working on the Madeleine McCann case are still pursuing “critical” leads as the 10th anniversary of her disappearance approaches, a Scotland Yard chief has revealed.
Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said there are “significant investigative avenues” that are of “great interest” to both the UK and Portuguese teams.
Officers have sifted through some 40,000 documents and looked at more than 600 individuals since 2011. In an interview nearly a decade on from the youngster’s disappearance, Mr Rowley also confirmed that four people considered as possible suspects in 2013 have been ruled out.
Madeleine vanished from the family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal on May 3 2007 when she was three years old. Her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, of Rothley, Leicestershire, have vowed to “never give up” hope of finding their daughter.
Asked if police were any closer to solving the case than they were six years ago when the UK investigation was launched, Mr Rowley said: “I know we have a significant line of inquiry which is worth pursuing, and because it’s worth pursuing it could provide an answer, but until we’ve gone through it I won’t know whether we are going to get there or not. “Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly.”
He declined to expand on the nature of the working theories or reveal whether any suspects were currently being considered, saying that disclosing further detail would not help the investigation. Mr Rowley said: “We’ve got some critical lines of inquiry, those link to particular hypotheses, but I’m not going to discuss those because those are very much live investigation. “We’ve got some thoughts on what we think the most likely explanations might be and we are pursuing those.” He described the possibility of a “burglary gone wrong” as a “sensible hypothesis” which has not been “entirely ruled out”.
The senior officer was asked about the theory of a sex predator being responsible for Madeleine’s disappearance. Mr Rowley said: “That’s been one key line of inquiry. The reality is in the modern world in any urban area if you cast your net widely you will find a whole pattern of offences. “You will find sex offenders who live nearby. And those coincidences need to be sifted out, what’s a coincidence and what may be linked to the investigation that you are currently doing. “Offences which may be linked have to be looked at and either ruled in or ruled out.” Mr Rowley said there was still a “lot unknown” in the case, adding: “All the different hypotheses have to remain open.”
Police have looked at more than 600 individuals who were identified as being potentially significant to Madeleine’s disappearance. In 2013 the team identified four people as suspects in the case. Interviews and searches were carried out but no evidence was found to implicate the four in the disappearance.
Mr Rowley said they are no longer the subject of further investigation and have been ruled out of the inquiry. Meanwhile, police working on the case continue to receive information on a daily basis.
Mr Rowley said: “Thousands of pieces of information have come forward, some useful, some not, but amongst that have been some nuggets that have thrown some extra light on the original material that came from the time. “That’s one of the things that’s helped us make progress and have some critical lines of inquiry we want to pursue today.”
Mr Rowley said there was no “definitive evidence” as to whether Madeleine is alive or dead. He added: “That’s why we describe it as a missing person inquiry. We understand why, after this many years, people will be pessimistic, but it’s important we keep an open mind.” The officer added that however Madeleine left the apartment, she was abducted. “She wasn’t old enough to make a decision to set off and start her own life,” he said.
The assistant commissioner pledged that the investigation team will do all they can to provide an answer for Madeleine’s parents. He said: “I so wish I could say we will definitely solve it but a small number of cases sadly don’t get solved.
“What I’ve always said on this case, and I’ve said it to Kate and Gerry as well, we will do everything reasonably possible to try and find an answer. “I just can’t quite guarantee it. It always hurts that you can’t guarantee success but we will do everything we reasonably can do to try and get there."
Around 30 detectives were working on the UK probe, Operation Grange, when it was established in 2011. The team has now been scaled back to four detectives. Last month the Home Office confirmed £85,000 was being given to the inquiry to cover operational costs from April to September. More than £11 million has been spent on the inquiry so far.
Mr Rowley insisted the investigation has achieved “an awful lot”. He said: “I think people get seduced perhaps by what they see in TV dramas where the most complex cases are solved in 30 minutes or 60 minutes. What we started with here was something extraordinary. “We’ve achieved a complete understanding of it all.
We’ve sifted out many of the potential suspects, many of the people of interest and where we are today is with a much smaller team focused on a small number of remaining critical lines of inquiry that we think are significant.”
Asked about the cost of the investigation, he said: “Big cases can take a lot of resources and a lot of time. “We’ve tried to be careful about public money and as we’ve started with that massive sifting we’ve reduced the number of resources and the funding’s reduced accordingly. “But we will stick with it as long as the funding’s available and as long as there are sensible lines of inquiry to pursue.” ends
Read more at: http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
The link does not work.
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Seems the Yorkshire Evening Post has jumped the gun and published too early. Thus the reason why the link now goes to a 'sorry' page.
Overlapped. 8((()*/
Now I wonder if the article will reappear later after the official announcement apparently coming on LBC tonight at 9 pm.
Perhaps I was right earlier, the Yorkshire Post had a premature release.
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Overlapped. 8((()*/
Now I wonder if the article will reappear later after the official announcement apparently coming on LBC tonight at 9 pm.
Perhaps I was right earlier, the Yorkshire Post had a premature release.
official announcements dont usually come at 9 pm on LBC
so is that it
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According to Brunt - something recorded to be shown after 9
BBC are showing something from OG on their 10 pm news.
Whether it differs from that in the Yorkshire Post remains to be seen.
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' LBC have just confirmed that they will be airing
The Statement
after 9pm tonight. '
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Just on the news on LBC.
Just a rehash of what was in the article.
Nothing new.
About 20 seconds long.
Rowley confirmed the 4 'suspects' are not of interest.
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Just on the news on LBC.
Just a rehash of what was in the article.
Nothing new.
About 20 seconds long.
Rowley confirmed the 4 'suspects' are not of interest.
OG are making progress by ruling all and sundry out.
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Seems the Yorkshire Evening Post has jumped the gun and published too early. Thus the reason why the link now goes to a 'sorry' page.
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-hunt-police-pursuing-significant-line-of-inquiry-ten-years-on-1-8510401
Spot on! The media were instructed not to release the draft of the interview before 9pm on Tuesday 25th April but the Yorkshire Evening Post jumped the gun. Thanx to insider for the heads up!
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thats the whole point...SY disagree with them...they have looked at the evidence in the files and decided the mccanns are not suspects therefore ruling them out
Well, if that's what you want to believe that's your prerogative.
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Well, if that's what you want to believe that's your prerogative.
Thats what I beleive based on the evidence...you see it diferrent and it is of no importance what either of us think
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Well, if that's what you want to believe that's your prerogative.
As we now know and suspected before , the review and investigation were never open.
The Mccanns were not investigated.
The question is why, as they remain, no matter all the bluster in any other direction, the two people who last saw their daughter alive.
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Thats what I beleive based on the evidence...you see it diferrent and it is of no importance what either of us think
Kindly make up your mind as to whether what you think is of importance or not.
I am reminded of Jane Tanner's flip-flops.
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Kindly make up your mind as to whether what you think is of importance or not.
I am reminded of Jane Tanner's flip-flops.
nothing posted here is of any importance....no ones opinion here is of any importance......stop the stupid sniping
you are loking silly
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As we now know and suspected before , the review and investigation were never open.
The Mccanns were not investigated.
The question is why, as they remain, no matter all the bluster in any other direction, the two people who last saw their daughter alive.
You forgot to put 'In Your Opinion'.
As you keep pointing out - the 'crime is unknown' - therefore it follows that abduction is a possibility - and if that is the case the McCanns are not the last people who saw Madeleine alive.
According to SY all of the evidence that came into their possession was studied. 'All of the evidence' would include any evidence pointing to the McCanns - if it existed.
As the following quote clearly shows - the idea that any evidence they had in front of them would have been ignored is ridiculous. (bizarre).
Quote
Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new investigation.
MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work your way through the case.
End quote
As SY have said the McCanns are not suspects then it follows that they found no evidence to implicate them during their thorough investigations.
SY are the professionals and have a great deal more information and expertise than anyone else. It's ludicrous IMO to suggest that armchair detectives with only partial information and no professional expertise know better than they do.
AIMHO
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You forgot to put 'In Your Opinion'.
As you keep pointing out - the 'crime is unknown' - therefore it follows that abduction is a possibility - and if that is the case the McCanns are not the last people who saw Madeleine alive.
According to SY all of the evidence that came into their possession was studied. 'All of the evidence' would include any evidence pointing to the McCanns - if it existed.
As the following quote clearly shows - the idea that any evidence they had in front of them would have been ignored is ridiculous. (bizarre).
Quote
Q: The first detective in charge of the case said he was going right back to the start of the case and accepting nothing. It seems very much he was suggesting that it was going to be a brand new investigation.
MR: It’s a brand new investigation, you are going in with an open mind. You are not ignoring the evidence in front of you. That would be a bizarre conclusion. You would look at that material, what does it prove, what it doesn’t. What hypothesis does it open what does it close down and you work your way through the case.
End quote
As SY have said the McCanns are not suspects then it follows that they found no evidence to implicate them during their thorough investigations.
SY are the professionals and have a great deal more information and expertise than anyone else. It's ludicrous IMO to suggest that armchair detectives with only partial information and no professional expertise know better than they do.
AIMHO
So if abduction is possible, so are the accidental death and walking out scenarios.
NEXT. 8)-)))
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So if abduction is possible, so are the accidental death and walking out scenarios.
NEXT. 8)-)))
That is what I've been telling you, but some people never learn.
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That is what I've been telling you, but some people never learn.
You need to read Rob.
I have mentioned frequently ALL THREE SCENARIOS.
8((()*/
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Accidental death has been ruled out
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How so? OG don't seem to know if she is alive or dead.
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How so? OG don't seem to know if she is alive or dead.
Precisely.
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How so? OG don't seem to know if she is alive or dead.
How can they, after ten years? Who knows what might have happened. Although some seem to think they do.
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How can they, after ten years? Who knows what might have happened. Although some seem to think they do.
Some are absolutely convinced that an abduction happened, despite the lack of supporting evidence.
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Some are absolutely convinced that an abduction happened, despite the lack of supporting evidence.
based on the facts...evidence...I would put abduction at at least 90 %.....more if I had more information on maddies ability to exit the apartment
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Some are absolutely convinced that an abduction happened, despite the lack of supporting evidence.
Some people just hope that Madeleine is alive. And nothing so far to suggest that she isn't.
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Kindly make up your mind as to whether what you think is of importance or not.
I am reminded of Jane Tanner's flip-flops.
Jane was wearing flip-flops but she did no 'flip-flops' in relation to her eye witness evidence. Someone told lies that she constantly changed her statement regarding the man she saw carrying a child outside the McCann apartment.
I am sure that will have been one of the first in the sequence of events that Operation Grange will have brainstormed right from the initial scoping exercise to the decision made from the information from that to reopen Madeleine's case.
I think there is a lot of importance to be gleaned from the Rowley interview ... despite the fact he was unable to impart anything about the present live investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.
First ... there is no doubt that Kate and Gerry McCann are viewed as victims of the events of May third by the Scotland Yard team of investigators.
Second ... there could very well be a further suspect on the books ...
Quote
Q: How old were the suspects because I think you interviewed them originally through the Portuguese beginning of July 2014?
MR: By the end of the year we were happy to have brought them out and we were moving on to other parts of the investigation.
Q: Do you have any other suspects at the moment?
MR: So, we have got some critical lines of enquiry that are definitely worth pursuing and I’m not going to go into further detail on those.
Another I would say though is, these lines of enquiry we have to date, they are the product of information available at the time and information that has come from public appeals that we have done.
Four Crimewatch appeals, and other media channels have been incredibly helpful, including yourselves, and thousands of pieces of information have come forward, some useful some not, but amongst that have been some nuggets that have thrown some extra light on the original material that came from the time and that is one of the things that has helped us to make progress and have some critical lines of enquiry we are pursuing today.
Q: The question of other suspects, is there anyone like those four who have been dismissed, is there anyone who has the “alguido” status?
MR: I’m not going to give that level of detail away, we have got some critical lines of enquiry and we are working with the Portuguese on that, we are both interested in. Disclosing any more information on that will not help the investigation.
End Quote
Information available to the original enquiry has been married to further evidence made available from various sources to Operation Grange to evolve into critical lines of inquiry of interest to both the Portuguese and British investigators working the case today.
I would say that painstaking work has resulted in a result.
That there are those who promote underestimating that really do raise questions for me regarding motive. Cui bono?
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nothing posted here is of any importance....no ones opinion here is of any importance......stop the stupid sniping
you are loking silly
I see the Portugal Resident has gone with 'my opinion' of the rape whistles 'news'.
Since you rate your opinion as having no value, your opinion about what I am doing has no value, IYO.
8@??)(
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Jane was wearing flip-flops but she did no 'flip-flops' in relation to her eye witness evidence. Someone told lies that she constantly changed her statement regarding the man she saw carrying a child outside the McCann apartment.
I am sure that will have been one of the first in the sequence of events that Operation Grange will have brainstormed right from the initial scoping exercise to the decision made from the information from that to reopen Madeleine's case.
I think there is a lot of importance to be gleaned from the Rowley interview ... despite the fact he was unable to impart anything about the present live investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.
First ... there is no doubt that Kate and Gerry McCann are viewed as victims of the events of May third by the Scotland Yard team of investigators.
Second ... there could very well be a further suspect on the books ...
Quote
Q: How old were the suspects because I think you interviewed them originally through the Portuguese beginning of July 2014?
MR: By the end of the year we were happy to have brought them out and we were moving on to other parts of the investigation.
Q: Do you have any other suspects at the moment?
MR: So, we have got some critical lines of enquiry that are definitely worth pursuing and I’m not going to go into further detail on those.
Another I would say though is, these lines of enquiry we have to date, they are the product of information available at the time and information that has come from public appeals that we have done.
Four Crimewatch appeals, and other media channels have been incredibly helpful, including yourselves, and thousands of pieces of information have come forward, some useful some not, but amongst that have been some nuggets that have thrown some extra light on the original material that came from the time and that is one of the things that has helped us to make progress and have some critical lines of enquiry we are pursuing today.
Q: The question of other suspects, is there anyone like those four who have been dismissed, is there anyone who has the “alguido” status?
MR: I’m not going to give that level of detail away, we have got some critical lines of enquiry and we are working with the Portuguese on that, we are both interested in. Disclosing any more information on that will not help the investigation.
End Quote
Information available to the original enquiry has been married to further evidence made available from various sources to Operation Grange to evolve into critical lines of inquiry of interest to both the Portuguese and British investigators working the case today.
I would say that painstaking work has resulted in a result.
That there are those who promote underestimating that really do raise questions for me regarding motive. Cui bono?
I have sent OG multiple snippets of information based on what was in the Files at the time.
As to whether the one I consider is most pertinent was worthwhile, who knows. I can't resolve it. Perhaps the PJ did back in 2007. Perhaps OG has now. Perhaps OG is pursuing it as a line of enquiry, but if they are, there is no activity to suggest this is the case.
Other than the information that the 4 arguidos are no longer considered persons of interest and lines (plural) of enquiry remain, the 'statement' says little else. It is 10th anniversary SY PR.
Kindly do not have a dig at my motives.
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Some are absolutely convinced that an abduction happened, despite the lack of supporting evidence.
And some people are absolutely convinced it didn't - you appear to fall into that category.
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And some people are absolutely convinced it didn't - you appear to fall into that category.
Then again all of "us" don't know what happened and some of "us" are not so pretentious as to think we do.
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Then again all of "us" don't know what happened and some of "us" are not so pretentious as to think we do.
There is a clear distinction between declaiming on the subject of what did happen and declaiming on the subject of what did not.
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Alice - not pretentious?! *&*%£
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I see the Portugal Resident has gone with 'my opinion' of the rape whistles 'news'.
Since you rate your opinion as having no value, your opinion about what I am doing has no value, IYO.
8@??)(
Im talking about posters opinion re this case and similarly what you are doing has no value to this case ...as regards The Resident...I hate to dissappoint you but they havent gone with your opinion...its just your opinion is the same as theirs
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I have sent OG multiple snippets of information based on what was in the Files at the time.
As to whether the one I consider is most pertinent was worthwhile, who knows. I can't resolve it. Perhaps the PJ did back in 2007. Perhaps OG has now. Perhaps OG is pursuing it as a line of enquiry, but if they are, there is no activity to suggest this is the case.
Other than the information that the 4 arguidos are no longer considered persons of interest and lines (plural) of enquiry remain, the 'statement' says little else. It is 10th anniversary SY PR.
Kindly do not have a dig at my motives.
perhaps you should stop having continual digs at other posters...it merely reflects badly on you
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perhaps you should stop having continual digs at other posters...it merely reflects badly on you
Since I am not having continual digs at other posters, your current post is about as valuable as your opinion.
8((()*/
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Since I am not having continual digs at other posters, your current post is about as valuable as your opinion.
8((()*/
you are having continual digs at me... quite a few of those recent posts heve been reported and removed.....you should behave yourself
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you are having continual digs at me... quite a few of those recent posts heve been reported and removed.....you should behave yourself
Many posts have been removed for all sorts of reasons.
To date it appears I have been adjudged conformant with the forum rules.
8((()*/
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Many posts have been removed for all sorts of reasons.
To date it appears I have been adjudged conformant with the forum rules.
8((()*/
the fact you have had posts removed suggests not....perhaps best to leave it there now
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the fact you have had posts removed suggests not....perhaps best to leave it there now
Why? Have you now become a moderator? Oh no, I see that cannot be correct.
8((()*/
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And some people are absolutely convinced it didn't - you appear to fall into that category.
Do I? Are you absolutely sure? It would help if someone could present a believable description of who, when and how.
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Retired Scotland Yard detective chief inspector Mick Neville travelled to the small Algarve town of Praia da Luz with The Sun
However, the terms of reference of Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange is focused on Madeleine having been abducted.
Mr Neville says: “It is good practice to keep all options open until it is proved otherwise.
“Though there is no evidence to suggest complicity, it means Kate, Gerry and their friends can never be totally eliminated by police from all suspicion until it is known what happened to Madeleine.”
He adds: “I do not find it realistic that a single kidnapper could have carried Madeleine out of the window or dropped her to the ground.
"She would have made too much noise. However, he could have passed her through the window to an accomplice which would suggest a conspiracy.
“A single abductor would have carried her out of the front door and closed it behind him.”
Mr Neville dismisses suggestions Madeleine could have left the apartment by herself.
“She would not have gone out of the window or the front door by herself,” he said.
“Had she left by the patio door she would have gone towards her parents in the restaurant and would not have closed it behind her.”
Instead, the inquiry focused on a sighting by an Irish tourist just before 10pm of another man walking past him carrying a child 400 yards from the McCann apartment and heading towards the sea.
Mr Neville said : “It is a credible sighting and his route would have taken him out of the car park area in front of the Ocean Club apartments and down a quiet and secluded street, Rue Escol Primarie.”
The route would have passed a CCTV camera outside the Hotel Estrella da Luz.
But by the time Portuguese police arrived to collect it, the film had been erased.
Mr Neville said: “It was potentially a golden opportunity to secure an image of the man and child he was carrying.“
I wonder if the hard drive was ever checked because sometimes CCTV images can still be there even if they have been wiped.”
But Mr Neville said the Portuguese do deserve credit for finding CCTV from the Paraiso beach bar restaurant in the resort which showed the Tapas Seven inside at a table at teatime on the day Madeleine went missing.
He said: “A lip reader should analyse the film because it could help to eliminate any suspicions the Portuguese police had about the McCanns.“
If something had happened to Madeleine by then, they would surely be talking about it.”
Full article here
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3425308/former-top-cop-says-security-at-portuguese-resort-where-madeleine-mccann-went-missing-is-as-bad-now-as-it-was-10-years-ago/
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Do I? Are you absolutely sure? It would help if someone could present a believable description of who, when and how.
No I'm not absolutely sure because you go all coy when asked outright what you think, but you certainly give the impression that you think abduction is completely far-fetched and unlikely, despite the fact that there was very clearly a window of opportunity and a means of entry to the apartment.
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I have sent OG multiple snippets of information based on what was in the Files at the time.
As to whether the one I consider is most pertinent was worthwhile, who knows. I can't resolve it. Perhaps the PJ did back in 2007. Perhaps OG has now. Perhaps OG is pursuing it as a line of enquiry, but if they are, there is no activity to suggest this is the case.
Other than the information that the 4 arguidos are no longer considered persons of interest and lines (plural) of enquiry remain, the 'statement' says little else. It is 10th anniversary SY PR.
Kindly do not have a dig at my motives.
If I chose to take 'a dig' at your motives there will be no ambiguity about it ... you will be told. If you choose to have a play on words ... I can join in the play ... invited or not.
The assurance was given that information received was actioned and decisions made to its relevance or not. You have done your duty (certainly as a human being) when you passed on what you thought to be relevant information to the inquiry.
It is no longer your intellectual property, it belongs to the investigation.
I appreciate your interest in and the hope that information you have passed on is useful ... but I think it is unrealistic to expect to have knowledge of what has been done with what you believe to be relevant information.
Which if of relevance to something in Luz is probably being dealt with by the Policia Judiciaria.
It is worth bearing in mind the PJ physically cased Luz for quite some time before making the decision to reopen Madeleine's case ... unnoticed or unremarked by most.
Your information may be being dealt with in the same unobtrusive way.
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If I chose to take 'a dig' at your motives there will be no ambiguity about it ... you will be told. If you choose to have a play on words ... I can join in the play ... invited or not.
The assurance was given that information received was actioned and decisions made to its relevance or not. You have done your duty (certainly as a human being) when you passed on what you thought to be relevant information to the inquiry.
It is no longer your intellectual property, it belongs to the investigation.
I appreciate your interest in and the hope that information you have passed on is useful ... but I think it is unrealistic to expect to have knowledge of what has been done with what you believe to be relevant information.
Which if of relevance to something in Luz is probably being dealt with by the Policia Judiciaria.
It is worth bearing in mind the PJ physically cased Luz for quite some time before making the decision to reopen Madeleine's case ... unnoticed or unremarked by most.
Your information may be being dealt with in the same unobtrusive way.
Cite for physically cased Luz for quite some time before re-opening the case. I am not being nit-picky here, because I wasn't in Luz at the time, but I have never heard of it. I did see officers on the streets in the run up to the June 2014 dig, obviously doing some planning.
The information I have was passed on to OG last year. I have not passed it to the PJ, for the simple reason that, based on previous example, my private details would get made public when this phase gets archived. That same information is in the hands of others, who have a better chance of progressing this than I, an anonymous little oink in Portugal, have within my power.
The number of interesting contacts is currently 5 and counting. I may well get frazzled again, but I consider it a risk worth taking. And I consider it a risk worth taking as there is a glimmer of hope in the sky.
This is not aimed at you personally, Brietta, but there is an entirely predictable chance that one supporter or another will claim I am doing this for euros, for 5 minutes of fame, to feed my ego, whatever. So I am stacking in advance that I will not take a cent, I have requested total anonymity, and my ego is not in need of feeding. There is about a 1% chance of progressing our knowledge of Madeleine's disappearance, and on that tiniest of chances I am willing to put in the effort and take the risk.
At the moment, supporters are not doing Madeleine any favours. This is not the time for the type of propaganda I have seen recently. There is a small window of opportunity here. It is time to seize the moment.
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Cite for physically cased Luz for quite some time before re-opening the case. I am not being nit-picky here, because I wasn't in Luz at the time, but I have never heard of it. I did see officers on the streets in the run up to the June 2014 dig, obviously doing some planning.
The information I have was passed on to OG last year. I have not passed it to the PJ, for the simple reason that, based on previous example, my private details would get made public when this phase gets archived. That same information is in the hands of others, who have a better chance of progressing this than I, an anonymous little oink in Portugal, have within my power.
The number of interesting contacts is currently 5 and counting. I may well get frazzled again, but I consider it a risk worth taking. And I consider it a risk worth taking as there is a glimmer of hope in the sky.
This is not aimed at you personally, Brietta, but there is an entirely predictable chance that one supporter or another will claim I am doing this for euros, for 5 minutes of fame, to feed my ego, whatever. So I am stacking in advance that I will not take a cent, I have requested total anonymity, and my ego is not in need of feeding. There is about a 1% chance of progressing our knowledge of Madeleine's disappearance, and on that tiniest of chances I am willing to put in the effort and take the risk.
At the moment, supporters are not doing Madeleine any favours. This is not the time for the type of propaganda I have seen recently. There is a small window of opportunity here. It is time to seize the moment.
"Cite for physically cased Luz for quite some time before re-opening the case. I am not being nit-picky here, because I wasn't in Luz at the time, but I have never heard of it."
Yes you have.
You have heard of it in an early post you made on this forum asking for exactly that information.
I supplied it.
I provided a cite for the information I provided.
Check out your posting history here and you may find your memory will be jogged.
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Cite for physically cased Luz for quite some time before re-opening the case. I am not being nit-picky here, because I wasn't in Luz at the time, but I have never heard of it. I did see officers on the streets in the run up to the June 2014 dig, obviously doing some planning.
The information I have was passed on to OG last year. I have not passed it to the PJ, for the simple reason that, based on previous example, my private details would get made public when this phase gets archived. That same information is in the hands of others, who have a better chance of progressing this than I, an anonymous little oink in Portugal, have within my power.
The number of interesting contacts is currently 5 and counting. I may well get frazzled again, but I consider it a risk worth taking. And I consider it a risk worth taking as there is a glimmer of hope in the sky.
This is not aimed at you personally, Brietta, but there is an entirely predictable chance that one supporter or another will claim I am doing this for euros, for 5 minutes of fame, to feed my ego, whatever. So I am stacking in advance that I will not take a cent, I have requested total anonymity, and my ego is not in need of feeding. There is about a 1% chance of progressing our knowledge of Madeleine's disappearance, and on that tiniest of chances I am willing to put in the effort and take the risk.
At the moment, supporters are not doing Madeleine any favours. This is not the time for the type of propaganda I have seen recently. There is a small window of opportunity here. It is time to seize the moment.
i dont think you aredoing it for any of the reasons you have quoted I think you are doing it because you genuinely believe you can help.... I think you are misguided...as is your criricism of supporters
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"Cite for physically cased Luz for quite some time before re-opening the case. I am not being nit-picky here, because I wasn't in Luz at the time, but I have never heard of it."
Yes you have.
You have heard of it in an early post you made on this forum asking for exactly that information.
I supplied it.
I provided a cite for the information I provided.
Check out your posting history here and you may find your memory will be jogged.
Thank you for your non-help. It was most enlightening. I feel sure posters and guests will bear this in mind should I decide to reciprocate in like kind in the future.
In the mean time, perhaps posters and guests can be bothered to trawl through the posts I have made over the 3 years since I joined.
Personally, I cannot be bothered, and that is putting it politely. 8((()*/
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http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/439464/Portuguese-police-held-their-own-Madeleine-McCann-reconstruction
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I trust they found it useful and informative 8)-)))
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I trust they found it useful and informative 8)-)))
It only took them a month to complete. "The exercise was the culmination of months of work by four Portuguese detectives based in Porto in the north of the country, who are directly working for the highly respected senior officer Helen Monteiro, an expert on abduction cases."
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"For a time Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were seen as arguidos or suspects but that status was lifted. Now they are being kept fully informed of all developments and were given a personal briefing of the work of the PJ in Lisbon last week.
The McCann's Portuguese lawyer, Rogerio Alves, is reportedly seeking for his clients to be "assistants" in the case. This would allow their lawyer to work closely with state prosecutors".
Nice to see more evidence of the McCanns being kept in the loop. 8((()*/
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It only took them a month to complete. "The exercise was the culmination of months of work by four Portuguese detectives based in Porto in the north of the country, who are directly working for the highly respected senior officer Helen Monteiro, an expert on abduction cases."
They probably found all the statement inconsistencies very confusing, but they might have reached a consensus as to whether or not Russell ever got to finish his steak.
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"For a time Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were seen as arguidos or suspects but that status was lifted. Now they are being kept fully informed of all developments and were given a personal briefing of the work of the PJ in Lisbon last week.
The McCann's Portuguese lawyer, Rogerio Alves, is reportedly seeking for his clients to be "assistants" in the case. This would allow their lawyer to work closely with state prosecutors".
Nice to see more evidence of the McCanns being kept in the loop. 8((()*/
Indeed, a mobius loop, going nowhere.
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Indeed, a mobius loop, going nowhere.
Covers both sides of the loop though. It is not one sided then is it.
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Loop sound very appropriate as it suggests going round and round in circles without ever getting anywhere.
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Loop sound very appropriate as it suggests going round and round in circles without ever getting anywhere.
That is definitely OG. 8)-)))
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That is definitely OG. 8)-)))
Are you a fan of theirs?
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"For a time Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were seen as arguidos or suspects but that status was lifted. Now they are being kept fully informed of all developments and were given a personal briefing of the work of the PJ in Lisbon last week.
The McCann's Portuguese lawyer, Rogerio Alves, is reportedly seeking for his clients to be "assistants" in the case. This would allow their lawyer to work closely with state prosecutors".
Nice to see more evidence of the McCanns being kept in the loop. 8((()*/
McCann is not suspected in the new investigation into her daughter's disappearance
RTP
Oct 24, 2013, 17:27 / Updated on Oct 24, 2013, 17:32 | World
The prosecution has ordered the reopening of the inquiry into the disappearance of the English girl. RTP knows that Maddie McCann's parents are not considered suspects in the new line of investigation of the case. The decision is a consequence of the proposal of the Judicial Police and the presentation of new evidence that justify the investigation to continue.
In a statement, the prosecution adds that the Criminal Investigation Judge was requested to postpone access to the case, for a period that is essential to the conclusion of the investigation.
The case dates back to May 2007. The child, at the age of four, disappeared from the room where he slept with his siblings in a tourist resort in Praia da Luz, Algarve, where the English family was on vacation.
The decision, which the Attorney General's Office revealed today, comes a week after British police had presented another robot portrait of a new suspect and evidence of further investigation. Scotland Yard welcomed the reopening of the inquiry in Portugal and underlined that it will take place in parallel with the British investigation.
http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/mundo/mccann-nao-sao-suspeitos-na-nova-investigacao-sobre-desaparecimento-da-filha_v690593
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McCann is not suspected in the new investigation into her daughter's disappearance
RTP
Oct 24, 2013, 17:27 / Updated on Oct 24, 2013, 17:32 | World
The prosecution has ordered the reopening of the inquiry into the disappearance of the English girl. RTP knows that Maddie McCann's parents are not considered suspects in the new line of investigation of the case. The decision is a consequence of the proposal of the Judicial Police and the presentation of new evidence that justify the investigation to continue.
In a statement, the prosecution adds that the Criminal Investigation Judge was requested to postpone access to the case, for a period that is essential to the conclusion of the investigation.
The case dates back to May 2007. The child, at the age of four, disappeared from the room where he slept with his siblings in a tourist resort in Praia da Luz, Algarve, where the English family was on vacation.
The decision, which the Attorney General's Office revealed today, comes a week after British police had presented another robot portrait of a new suspect and evidence of further investigation. Scotland Yard welcomed the reopening of the inquiry in Portugal and underlined that it will take place in parallel with the British investigation.
http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/mundo/mccann-nao-sao-suspeitos-na-nova-investigacao-sobre-desaparecimento-da-filha_v690593
Old headline.
Now we know the the investigation didn't investigate the McCann's, which makes it a poor investigation. 8**8:/:
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Old headline.
Now we know the the investigation didn't investigate the McCann's, which makes it a poor investigation. 8**8:/:
Judge it on the results once it is completed.
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McCann is not suspected in the new investigation into her daughter's disappearance
RTP
Oct 24, 2013, 17:27 / Updated on Oct 24, 2013, 17:32 | World
The prosecution has ordered the reopening of the inquiry into the disappearance of the English girl. RTP knows that Maddie McCann's parents are not considered suspects in the new line of investigation of the case. The decision is a consequence of the proposal of the Judicial Police and the presentation of new evidence that justify the investigation to continue.
In a statement, the prosecution adds that the Criminal Investigation Judge was requested to postpone access to the case, for a period that is essential to the conclusion of the investigation.
The case dates back to May 2007. The child, at the age of four, disappeared from the room where he slept with his siblings in a tourist resort in Praia da Luz, Algarve, where the English family was on vacation.
The decision, which the Attorney General's Office revealed today, comes a week after British police had presented another robot portrait photofit of a new suspect and evidence of further investigation. Scotland Yard welcomed the reopening of the inquiry in Portugal and underlined that it will take place in parallel with the British investigation.
http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/mundo/mccann-nao-sao-suspeitos-na-nova-investigacao-sobre-desaparecimento-da-filha_v690593
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Old headline.
Now we know the the investigation didn't investigate the McCann's, which makes it a poor investigation. 8**8:/:
Yes ... 2013 to be precise ... and confirmation of the McCann innocence.
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Judge it on the results once it is completed.
How long is this particular piece of metaphorical string ?
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How long is this particular piece of metaphorical string ?
It could go on a bit longer yet.
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As long as there is funding, OG will continue.
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Yes ... 2013 to be precise ... and confirmation of the McCann innocence.
It tells us that the PJ spoke to the McCanns. What was said is guesswork.
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Yes ... 2013 to be precise ... and confirmation of the McCann innocence.
They hasn't investigated the McCann's.
Confirmation of the McCann's innocence ? 8**8:/:
They don't even know what the crime is..............
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They hasn't investigated the McCann's.
Confirmation of the McCann's innocence ? 8**8:/:
They don't even know what the crime is..............
Face it. It was an abduction following on from poor child minding procedures.
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Face it. It was an abduction following on from poor child minding procedures.
Oh Rob, you really never learn.
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Oh Rob, you really never learn.
That is what I have learnt; it was an abduction following on from poor child minding procedures.
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That is what I have learnt; it was an abduction following on from poor child minding procedures.
IYO.
Have you heard back from OG as regards your theories ? 8**8:/:
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IYO.
Have you heard back from OG as regards your theories ? 8**8:/:
They have not ruled them out in the announcement by Mark Rowley.
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They hasn't investigated the McCann's.
Confirmation of the McCann's innocence ? 8**8:/:
They don't even know what the crime is..............
They were investigating an abduction, they dont think the parents abducted their own daughter. Nice work! worth all them millions. Glad he shared that with us- worth waiting for.