UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: carlymichelle on April 27, 2017, 01:12:40 AM
-
HOPES DASHED Madeleine McCann’s parents given ‘false hope’ by cops who claim they are chasing critical leads ex detective says
Met Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley has said there are "significant investigative avenues" that are of "great interest"
By Lauren Fruen
27th April 2017, 12:32 am
Updated: 27th April 2017, 12:35 am
THE parents of missing Madeleine McCann have been given false hope by police who claim they are chasing critical leads, according to former detective.
Met Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said he is following up “critical” leads on the tenth anniversary of the tot’s disappearance.
Former police detective Mark Williams-Thomas said police who claim they are chasing critical leads give the parents of missing Madeleine McCann false hope.
Next month marks ten years since little Maddie went missing
But former police detective Mark Williams-Thomas, 46, has since revealed his “concern” over claims, The Daily Star reports.
Speaking ahead of the 10-year anniversary Mr Rowley said they are following up “significant” leads.
Asked if police were any closer to solving the case than they were six years ago when the UK investigation was launched, Mr Rowley said: “I know we have a significant line of inquiry which is worth pursuing, and because it’s worth pursuing it could provide an answer, but until we’ve gone through it I won’t know whether we are going to get there or not.
“Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly.”
Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said there are “significant investigative avenues” that are of “great interest”
Maddie disappeared in May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Portugal.
She vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz while her parents Kate and Gerry were dining nearby with friends.
When Kate returned to check on the kids at around 10pm that evening, she discovered that Maddie was not in her bed and was missing.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3424229/madeleine-mccann-false-hope-police/
33
-
HOPES DASHED Madeleine McCann’s parents given ‘false hope’ by cops who claim they are chasing critical leads ex detective says
Met Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley has said there are "significant investigative avenues" that are of "great interest"
By Lauren Fruen
27th April 2017, 12:32 am
Updated: 27th April 2017, 12:35 am
THE parents of missing Madeleine McCann have been given false hope by police who claim they are chasing critical leads, according to former detective.
Met Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said he is following up “critical” leads on the tenth anniversary of the tot’s disappearance.
Former police detective Mark Williams-Thomas said police who claim they are chasing critical leads give the parents of missing Madeleine McCann false hope.
Next month marks ten years since little Maddie went missing
But former police detective Mark Williams-Thomas, 46, has since revealed his “concern” over claims, The Daily Star reports.
Speaking ahead of the 10-year anniversary Mr Rowley said they are following up “significant” leads.
Asked if police were any closer to solving the case than they were six years ago when the UK investigation was launched, Mr Rowley said: “I know we have a significant line of inquiry which is worth pursuing, and because it’s worth pursuing it could provide an answer, but until we’ve gone through it I won’t know whether we are going to get there or not.
“Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly.”
Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said there are “significant investigative avenues” that are of “great interest”
Maddie disappeared in May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Portugal.
She vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz while her parents Kate and Gerry were dining nearby with friends.
When Kate returned to check on the kids at around 10pm that evening, she discovered that Maddie was not in her bed and was missing.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3424229/madeleine-mccann-false-hope-police/
Good.
Someone with the gumption to say the obvious.
-
Good.
Someone with the gumption to say the obvious.
exactly we knew in the next week the media would start spinning postive stories about the mcanns didnt we??
-
exactly we knew in the next week the media would start spinning postive stories about the mcanns didnt we??
Yep and it hasn't finished yet.
-
Yep and it hasn't finished yet.
it proves people shouldnt believe everything the media tells them
-
it proves people shouldnt believe everything the media tells them
yet you are believing what this article in the media is saying
-
I agree with Mark Williams-Thomas, these continual references to new lines of enquiry are baseless and have been consistently shown to be fruitless. How many innocent people have now had their lives thrown into turmoil by these witch hunts?
The Met should admit they are beaten and stop tormenting the McCanns.
-
I agree with Mark Williams-Thomas, these continual references to new lines of enquiry are baseless and have been consistently shown to be fruitless. How many innocent people have now had their lives thrown into turmoil by these witch hunts?
The Met should admit they are beaten and stop tormenting the McCanns.
don't agree at all...we don't know these leads will lead nowhere...they may well do but without hope helps people cope...it actually lessens the torment
-
don't agree at all...we don't know these leads will lead nowhere...they may well do but without hope helps people cope...it actually lessens the torment
Of course it lessens the torment.
-
Madeleine McCann and the media
The most reported and discussed missing person case ever recorded is still not only a highly contentious mystery, but also a personal tragedy that has been turned into a public farce by elements of the media.
In the entirely predictable press frenzy surrounding the imminent 10th anniversary of the disappearance, much of the coverage, particularly in the British tabloids, has been farcical. But it should not be dismissed lightly.
Unable to come up with “news” on the case, the tabloids have been rehashing the same old speculation and guesswork.
“Could Madeleine McCann have been snatched by a lone paedo or simply wandered off?”
“She was sold to a rich family, says ex-cop.”
“New hope after decade-long search.”
“Experts say Madeleine McCann’s body is almost impossible to find.”
And then there was the much-touted Australian TV show that promised “a major breakthrough in the case”.
Meanwhile, the Daily Mirror took a slightly different tack with a story headlined, “What REALLY happened the night Madeleine McCann disappeared as nanny breaks her 10-year silence”.
The story did not explain what “really” happened, nor did it name the nanny or why she had remained silent for so long.
It quoted her as considering the McCann to be “the picture perfect family” and repeated the usual British criticism of the Portuguese police.
More surprisingly, she claimed that the resort from which Madeleine vanished was considered so unsafe that nannies were given rape alarms (whistles) and advised, “don’t go anywhere by yourself, ever”.
There was nothing to suggest the Mirror had tried to question or check this or any of the nanny’s other assertions, but, in Praia da Luz, they were viewed with derision. It was seen as yet another attempt to brand Praia da Luz as a den of iniquity, which it is not and never has been.
The official police files on the case contain nothing about rape whistles or alarms. None of the signed statements by child-care workers mentioned anything about suspicious goings-on or Luz being “unsafe”.
The manager of the Ocean Club where the McCanns were staying said in a police statement in 2007 that he had “no knowledge of any untoward situation involving Ocean Club users or in the village itself, other than some damage and minor thefts”.
The Mirror story was also a reminder that real journalism has to a large extent been replaced by ‘churnalism’, which disregards traditional standards of original news gathering based on impartiality and fact-checking for accuracy and honesty.
The nanny’s story was quickly recycled virtually verbatim on the internet by other tabloids. Even the broadsheet Daily Telegraph fell into line as did news services in the United States, Australia and New Zealand.
Trial by the media has had a huge influence on public perceptions about guilt or innocence in this case. Most of the mainstream media reports state as if it were a fact that Madeleine was “abducted”. Maybe she was. Maybe she wasn’t.
There is no certainty either about the other main theory, that her parents covered up an accidental death in the apartment.
Until solid evidence is found and the culprits are brought to justice, the public fascination with this case will continue to fuel and be fuelled by the media’s determination to churn out stories whose accuracy and agenda may sometimes be open to doubt.
The current avalanche of stories inevitably evokes the previous admission by Lord Bell, founder and former chairman of the Bell Pottinger public relations group, to columnist and author Owen Jones, that “the McCanns paid me £50,000 in fees to keep them on the front page of every single newspaper for a year, which we did”.
Nevertheless, “Maddie” helps circulation figures and makes money. Money, along with misinformation, has always played far too big a part in this case which, let’s remember, is about the tragic loss of a child.
http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-mccann-and-the-media
-
one good point there " nor did it name the nanny or why she had remained silent for so long."
-
I think the only sensible comment recently has come from Paul Luckman, the editor of The Portugal News in Lagos, Portugal, who mentioned the 600 plus wells dotted all around the Luz area. The scope of such a search is nigh impossible and anyone secreting a body there would know that. A terrible realisation for the parents of any missing child.
-
I think the only sensible comment recently has come from Paul Luckman, the editor of The Portugal News in Lagos, Portugal, who mentioned the 600 plus wells dotted all around the Luz area. The scope of such a search is nigh impossible and anyone secreting a body there would know that. A terrible realisation for the parents of any missing child.
Well, they'll have to dig them all out, won't they.
-
Well, they'll have to dig them all out, won't they.
Who did you have in mind?
-
Who did you have in mind?
I'm not bothered really. Although I don't suppose even you want Kate or Gerry to find the dead body of their child.
-
Well, they'll have to dig them all out, won't they.
Realistically, that is an almost impossible task Eleanor, and given the cost and the fact that there are no guarantees it would be a brave public official who would authorise such a mammoth undertaking.
The only way this case will ever be solved is, if someone did have a hand in Madeleine's disappearance, that they pass information onto a third party as to where she is hidden.
-
As this would be actual, physical searching, it would seem an ideal task for the Fund to finance.
All those people who believe Madeleine is find-able could spend some of their annual holidays digging out wells.
-
Realistically, that is an almost impossible task Eleanor, and given the cost and the fact that there are no guarantees it would be a brave public official who would authorise such a mammoth undertaking.
The only way this case will ever be solved is, if someone did have a hand in Madeleine's disappearance, that they pass information onto a third party as to where she is hidden.
I was being facetious, John. I don't expect anyone to do this. Least of all The McCanns.
-
I would think it would be obvious why the Nanny didn't want to be named, already some are trying to find out who it was, no doubt to stalk and harass her.
Why did she speak after 10 years? Well maybe a journalist wanting a nice piece in the paper about the case as it is coming up to the 10th anniversary ?
-
As this would be actual, physical searching, it would seem an ideal task for the Fund to finance.
All those people who believe Madeleine is find-able could spend some of their annual holidays digging out wells.
@)(++(* exactly make themselves useful
-
Realistically, that is an almost impossible task Eleanor, and given the cost and the fact that there are no guarantees it would be a brave public official who would authorise such a mammoth undertaking.
The only way this case will ever be solved is, if someone did have a hand in Madeleine's disappearance, that they pass information onto a third party as to where she is hidden.
8@??)(
-
I agree with Mark Williams-Thomas, these continual references to new lines of enquiry are baseless and have been consistently shown to be fruitless. How many innocent people have now had their lives thrown into turmoil by these witch hunts?
The Met should admit they are beaten and stop tormenting the McCanns.
Could you quote exactly what MWT said, cos I can't actually find it in the article itself... &%+((£
-
I think the only sensible comment recently has come from Paul Luckman, the editor of The Portugal News in Lagos, Portugal, who mentioned the 600 plus wells dotted all around the Luz area. The scope of such a search is nigh impossible and anyone secreting a body there would know that. A terrible realisation for the parents of any missing child.
As a matter of interest, how many wells are there on your farm?
I would expect, given the time, effort and cost of digging and maintaining wells that the norm would be one per farm. Perhaps two, if the humans used one well while the other was used for animals and crops.
If it is one well per farm, Luckman's guesstimate requires 300 to 600 farms around Luz. Of course, if you make the 'area' 'around' Luz big enough, you will indeed get 300 - 600 farms.
I have no idea how big that would be in 2007 terms.
It is therefore, IMO, an untestable opinion, hence uncontestable. Personally, I am filing it in the same folder as rape whistles for nannies - 10th anniversary froth.
-
Could you quote exactly what MWT said, cos I can't actually find it in the article itself... &%+((£
Former police detective Mark Williams-Thomas said police who claim they are chasing critical leads give the parents of missing Madeleine McCann false hope.
Mr Williams-Thomas tweeted: “Met Police say have a ‘significant line of inquiry that may give the answer’. Concern they are using such strong words #MadeleineMcCann
“At one stage the Met Police treated the burglary theory as ‘significant line of inquiry’. Was never credible – now as good as ruled out.
“Very careful choice of words is always crucial – am not sure ‘credible & answer’ are best choice.”
Mr Williams-Thomas added: “Again the McCanns wake up to headlines of major developments – ‘significant lead that may provide the answer.’ Met have to deliver this time.’’
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3424229/madeleine-mccann-false-hope-police/
-
I agree with Mark Williams-Thomas, these continual references to new lines of enquiry are baseless and have been consistently shown to be fruitless. How many innocent people have now had their lives thrown into turmoil by these witch hunts?
The Met should admit they are beaten and stop tormenting the McCanns.
We are in no position to agree or disagree.
We do not know what the Met and the PJ are investigating.
-
But Mr Williams-Thomas tweeted: “Met Police say have a ‘signifi cant line of inquiry that may give the answer’. Concern they are using such strong words #MadeleineMcCann
“At one stage the Met Police treated the burglary theory as ‘signifi cant line of inquiry’. Was never credible – now as good as ruled out.
“Very careful choice of words is always crucial – am not sure ‘credible & answer’ are best choice.”
Mr Williams-Thomas added: “Again the McCanns wake up to headlines of major developments – ‘signifi cant lead that may provide the answer.’ Met have to deliver this time.’’
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3424229/madeleine-mccann-false-hope-police/
I think the McCanns are fully aware of what the situation is with regard to Operation Grange as they are kept closely in the loop and therefore no doubt have quite realistic expectations. The McCanns certainly don't give the impression of being parents full of hope and expectation that their daughter is about to be returned to them any time soon.
-
We are in no position to agree or disagree.
We do not know what the Met and the PJ are investigating.
When has that ever stopped people @)(++(*
-
I think the McCanns are fully aware of what the situation is with regard to Operation Grange as they are kept closely in the loop and therefore no doubt have quite realistic expectations. The McCanns certainly don't give the impression of being parents full of hope and expectation that their daughter is about to be returned to them any time soon.
Kept closely in the loop?
In an active police investigation?
%56&
-
We are in no position to agree or disagree.
We do not know what the Met and the PJ are investigating.
I would hazard a guess that the PJ are only applying lip service to any enquiry while the Met is about to close the last remaining leads.
Wednesday 3rd May 2017 would be an excellent day to publicize a new incentive in the Algarve aimed at finding out where Madeleine is. It wil be interesting to see if those who proclaim to seek her most take that opportunity.
-
I would hazard a guess that the PJ are only applying lip service to any enquiry while the Met is about to close the last remaining leads.
Emphasis on words hazard and a guess.
-
I would hazard a guess that the PJ are only applying lip service to any enquiry while the Met is about to close the last remaining leads.
I would agree with you about the pj...hopefully the MET will find something but the chances are slim.
-
Emphasis on words hazard and a guess.
Based on known criteria I would say pretty accurate.
-
Based on known criteria I would say pretty accurate.
i felt from the word go taht the pj simply pretended to have new evidence to open the case so as not to look to be lapdogs to SY
-
I would agree with you about the pj...hopefully the MET will find something but the chances are slim.
Agreed but instead of wasting money on deadend theories they should be actively encouraging anyone with information about Madeleine's whereabouts to provide that information and through a third party if necessary.
That said however, the Met are offering a reward payable on the conviction of Madeleine's abductor and not for her safe return which in really appalling.
-
Kept closely in the loop?
In an active police investigation?
%56&
yep 8((()*/
-
yep 8((()*/
Cite.
8((()*/
-
Agreed but instead of wasting money on deadend theories they should be actively encouraging anyone with information about Madeleine's whereabouts to provide that information and through a third party if necessary.
That said however, the Met are offering a reward payable on the conviction of Madeleine's abductor and not for her safe return which in really appalling.
Maybe they realise that would be a waste of time
-
I was being facetious, John. I don't expect anyone to do this. Least of all The McCanns.
I don't think there is anything new in knowledge of the existence of these wells around Praia da Luz.
In the Dispatches documentary "Searching for Madeleine" of 18 October 2007 some of these wells were looked at by a police search expert, Gary Lig.
He knew there were hundreds of them; and having looked into one noted "water and a confined space" which would have required specialist searchers experienced in both: he didn't think there should have been a problem in inspecting them.
So actually no reason why they couldn't have been inspected either by specialist searchers or cameras.
On the forum we have had a discussion on this as well (no pun intended) as the preponderance of septic tanks in the area.
So no mystery about the wells, Mr Luckman wasn't letting us in on anything we didn't already know about.
-
don't agree at all...we don't know these leads will lead nowhere...they may well do but without hope helps people cope...it actually lessens the torment
Well they seem to be without evidence.
-
Cite.
8((()*/
There's no point providing a cite - you'll simply say the papers are making it up.
-
So SIL thinks that the McCanns are kept as much in the dark about what's happening within Operation Grange as Joe Public - is that standard practice in missing persons cases? The police don't keep the families updated, so they have to read about developments in the paper like everyone else?
-
So SIL thinks that the McCanns are kept as much in the dark about what's happening within Operation Grange as Joe Public - is that standard practice in missing persons cases? The police don't keep the families updated, so they have to read about developments in the paper like everyone else?
I think it's far more likely that the McCanns have a 'dedicated' Family Liaison Officer to keep them informed.
-
From 2015 http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, from the MPS said: "The Met investigation has been painstaking and thorough and has for the first time brought together in one place what was disparate information across the world.
"This work has enabled us to better understand events in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine McCann went missing and ensure every possible measure is being taken to find out what happened to her.
"We still have very definite lines to pursue which is why we are keeping a dedicated team of officers working on the case. We have given this assurance to Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.
"The Portuguese police remain the lead investigators and our team will continue to support their inquiry. They have extended every courtesy to Operation Grange and we maintain a close working relationship. I know they remain fully committed to investigating Madeleine's disappearance with support from the Metropolitan Police.
"The Met was asked to take on this exceptional case as one of national interest. We were happy to bring our expertise to bear only on the basis that it would not detract from the policing of London; and the Home Office have additionally funded the investigation above normal grants to the Met. That will continue at the reduced level.
"I have overseen this investigation since 2012 and am very grateful for the enormous assistance of the media and public so far which, through the appeals, have generated new information and lines of Inquiry. "
Our decision and rationale has been discussed with Mr and Mrs McCann.
Mr and Mrs McCann said: "We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years. The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt.
"We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in Praia da Luz leading up to Madeleine's abduction in 2007.
"Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced.
"We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.
"Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry. "
Like I said. In the loop.
-
I think it's far more likely that the McCanns have a 'dedicated' Family Liaison Officer to keep them informed.
Hopefully one that they want. They rejected the LP ones, didn't they?
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf
[Page 18]
-
Hopefully one that they want. They rejected the LP ones, didn't they?
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf
[Page 18]
No.
-
From 2015 http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, from the MPS said: "The Met investigation has been painstaking and thorough and has for the first time brought together in one place what was disparate information across the world.
"This work has enabled us to better understand events in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine McCann went missing and ensure every possible measure is being taken to find out what happened to her.
"We still have very definite lines to pursue which is why we are keeping a dedicated team of officers working on the case. We have given this assurance to Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.
"The Portuguese police remain the lead investigators and our team will continue to support their inquiry. They have extended every courtesy to Operation Grange and we maintain a close working relationship. I know they remain fully committed to investigating Madeleine's disappearance with support from the Metropolitan Police.
"The Met was asked to take on this exceptional case as one of national interest. We were happy to bring our expertise to bear only on the basis that it would not detract from the policing of London; and the Home Office have additionally funded the investigation above normal grants to the Met. That will continue at the reduced level.
"I have overseen this investigation since 2012 and am very grateful for the enormous assistance of the media and public so far which, through the appeals, have generated new information and lines of Inquiry. "
Our decision and rationale has been discussed with Mr and Mrs McCann.
Mr and Mrs McCann said: "We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years. The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt.
"We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in Praia da Luz leading up to Madeleine's abduction in 2007.
"Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced.
"We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.
"Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry. "
Like I said. In the loop.
At least I now know what you consider to be 'in the loop'. It was most enlightening.
Thank you. 8((()*/
-
No.
Yes.
-
Yes.
Hmmm ... I imagine that Dyfed Pows Police adhere to a National standard for the deployment of Family Liaison Officers as outlined in the following policy document for homicide and suspicious deaths.
It is normal operational procedure for contact to be reviewed and the FLO occupational health to be a consideration in this.
That you chose to interpret normal procedures as pejorative as far as the McCann family is concerned is not to your credit I am thinking. Then again, it is Kate and Gerry McCann you implicitly malign ... so that makes it all right then?
There is absolutely no indication anywhere that either Leicestershire Police or the McCanns did not follow guidelines, unless you can provide a cite which states otherwise?
Page 9 of 19
The FLO strategy should also address the exit strategy for the FLO. The exit strategy
should contain how long the FLO is expected to remain on the enquiry and how the
family will be managed thereafter.
Page 10
The SIO, FLC and FLO should have a de-brief at a suitable time for learning points
to be raised. Log books, rough books and statements will also be monitored by the
FLC to ensure standards are being maintained.
FLOs should only remain on an enquiry as long as is necessary for the objectives to be
completed. Should there be a need for future contact the officer can do this from their normal
place of work, where they can complete the log book and update the MIR. Should the family
contact them with a query or question it should be directed to the SIO and the family updated
accordingly, this also should be recorded in the log book, and the MIR updated.
6.0 FLO STRATEGY
In formulating the Family Liaison Strategy the SIO must aim to achieve a partnership
approach with the family within the investigation. The Strategy should be defined and
developed taking into consideration the needs of the family, the lines of enquiry and the
available intelligence.
This is a dynamic process that must be reviewed at regular intervals and in
consultation with the FLO
https://www.dyfed-powys.police.uk/media/249153/family-liaison-policy.pdf