Even if the door wasn't latched she would still need her fingers to push or pull it. How do you think she managed it ... did she blow on it? @)(++(*
Unless it was a very Rolls Royce sort of window (and the place does not look Rolls Royce at all), and the patio slid open very easily, I am very doubtful that she could manage to open the patio door at all let alone close it and manage all the near impossible obstacles ahead.
Why wouldn't she have shouted her Mum and Dad , she surely could see and hear them * if * she managed that door .... and they would hear her too. Parents hear the distressed cry of their children over everything else. The group would see her, imo
IMO, you are all barking up the wrong tree.
I tried a sliding door last week.... Pulling as an adult horizontally it was not difficult to open.... Reaching up as a child would have to it was impossible IMODo tell us how you simulated being a child Madeleine's height. *&(+(+
Do tell us how you simulated being a child Madeleine's height. *&(+(+
I tried a sliding door last week.... Pulling as an adult horizontally it was not difficult to open.... Reaching up as a child would have to it was impossible
One wonders why they sell locks for these doors;
Sliding Door Locks for Baby Proofing | Keyless Child Safety Locks For Patio, Closet, Shower Sliding Doors, Shutters & more | No Tools Install (4 Pack, White)
Keeps Your Toddler Safe - You will have peace of mind knowing your toddler cannot wander outside the minute you turn your back.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sliding-Proofing-Keyless-Shutters-Install/dp/B01CFCDGHE
Do tell us how you simulated being a child Madeleine's height. *&(+(+
Read the post again it's self explanatory.... I bent my knees and bent my elbow...hows that....rocket scienceI've read it again and it is not self-explanatory, otherwise why did you give an explanation of how you did it?
I've read it again and it is not self-explanatory, otherwise why did you give an explanation of how you did it?
And, IMO, your emulation is a poor match for Madeleine.
But whatever makes you happy. &^^&*
Perhaps others might like to try..
Open a sliding door with your elbow at the same height as the handle..
Then try with your elbow in a vertical line to the handle
Why is that relevant? Average height 4 yo girl is about 105 cm. Handle should be between 90cm and 100cm a fairly straight pull. In fact a lot straighter than for an adult.
lets say a force applied in a horizontal direction has a value x....then the same force applied at an angle has a value x times the cosine of the angle but also produces a downward force x times sine of the angle which causes a substantial increase in friction...but im sure you understood all this alreadyYou have mashed up a horizontal with a hypoteneuse of the same length, but hey-ho.
No... A child would have to have their elbow at head height or above to apply a horizontal force... Not possible. Imo... Much more likely to reach up with a, straight armThe real test would be a 4 year old.
The real test would be a 4 year old.
maddie was three and small for her age.....
maddie was three and small for her age.....Well look at small girls nearly 4 and see if they can open a sliding door. I know some could be full of sand and dirt and become difficult to open. So we may never know for certain.
You have mashed up a horizontal with a hypoteneuse of the same length, but hey-ho.
Quite why you think an adult applies a horizontal force eludes me.
Quite why you think Madeleine applied a downward force also eludes me.
And your emulation fails to answer whether Madeleine could or could not open the patio door.
I seem to remember one explanation of the unlocked patio door was so that Madeleine could get out if need be. If so, trigonometry does not enter the equation.
Cite?
No... A child would have to have their elbow at head height or above to apply a horizontal force... Not possible. Imo... Much more likely to reach up with a, straight arm
As the door wasn't closed there was no need to reach up to a handle. All the child had to do was put their hand into the gap on the far right and push to their left.
The real test would be a 4 year old.That would be getting closer.
That would be getting closer.
Where's a sliding patio door and a near-4-year-old girl when you want one? &^^&*
It was pointless checking for Madeleine's fingerprints on the doors as she occupied the apartment. Finding her fingerprints on the front door or the patio door was not significant.I beg to differ.
I'm trying to think how they would have got a reference sample of Madeleine's fingerprints in the first place. If small fingerprints were found they could be attributed to a child but who?From her suitcase maybe? Or bedroom at home.
I tried a sliding door last week.... Pulling as an adult horizontally it was not difficult to open.... Reaching up as a child would have to it was impossible IMOThank you for concretely confirming what I have been banging on about.
Imo it gave me insight
As I have tried to explain from a mathematical point... Not opinion... Is how much difference trying to open a sliding door from a lower point makes...
I happened to try this out in practice and was astonished at the result.. Perhaps you should try it before giving your opinion
And again... I bent my knees and elbow
Why is that relevant? Average height 4 yo girl is about 105 cm. Handle should be between 90cm and 100cm a fairly straight pull. In fact a lot straighter than for an adult.Madeleine was reported as being 90 cm tall. You should try pulling something horizontally that is well above your head, slarti
You have mashed up a horizontal with a hypoteneuse of the same length, but hey-ho.Sil, what are you on about.
Quite why you think an adult applies a horizontal force eludes me.
Quite why you think Madeleine applied a downward force also eludes me.
And your emulation fails to answer whether Madeleine could or could not open the patio door.
I seem to remember one explanation of the unlocked patio door was so that Madeleine could get out if need be. If so, trigonometry does not enter the equation.
The real test would be a 4 year old.Yep, but as Madeleine is short for her age, it would need a girl of the same height and the same doors, with the same in built frictions
who said it wasnt closed
are you disputing she was three
There was no need to open the patio door using the handle;
the lounge door stayed closed but not locked in a way that it could be opened from the outside, permitting there to be a gap in which to introduce a hand {i.e. the reporter says that the door would be ajar}.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm
If the patio door wasn't fully closed a smaller child than Madeleine would have been able to open it;
Sliding Door Locks for Baby Proofing | Keyless Child Safety Locks For Patio, Closet, Shower Sliding Doors, Shutters & more
Keeps Your Toddler Safe - You will have peace of mind knowing your toddler cannot wander outside the minute you turn your back
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sliding-Proofing-Keyless-Shutters-Install/dp/B01CFCDGHE/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1524465216&sr=8-3&keywords=sliding+door+lock
We know she was nearly 4, cite about size?
There was no need to open the patio door using the handle;Citing an advert on Amazon to prove a point is no match for actually being in the apartment and drawing one’s own conclusions by looking at the actual door, how it operates etc. The police did not seem to give the idea of Madeleine exiting via the patio door much credence, you’d have to wonder why.
the lounge door stayed closed but not locked in a way that it could be opened from the outside, permitting there to be a gap in which to introduce a hand {i.e. the reporter says that the door would be ajar}.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm
If the patio door wasn't fully closed a smaller child than Madeleine would have been able to open it;
Sliding Door Locks for Baby Proofing | Keyless Child Safety Locks For Patio, Closet, Shower Sliding Doors, Shutters & more
Keeps Your Toddler Safe - You will have peace of mind knowing your toddler cannot wander outside the minute you turn your back
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sliding-Proofing-Keyless-Shutters-Install/dp/B01CFCDGHE/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1524465216&sr=8-3&keywords=sliding+door+lock
Citing an advert on Amazon to prove a point is no match for actually being in the apartment and drawing one’s own conclusions by looking at the actual door, how it operates etc. The police did not seem to give the idea of Madeleine exiting via the patio door much credence, you’d have to wonder why.
So she, wasn't four she was three... I seem to remember the remark about size but can't find it now.... Happy to let it go seeing as, some, think that babies can open patio doors it's not really important
they must have some extra info...imo
Citing an advert on Amazon to prove a point is no match for actually being in the apartment and drawing one’s own conclusions by looking at the actual door, how it operates etc. The police did not seem to give the idea of Madeleine exiting via the patio door much credence, you’d have to wonder why.
Madeleine was reported as being 90 cm tall. You should try pulling something horizontally that is well above your head, slartiI'd like to see it being done in real life. The article above shows it is possible for even younger children can do it.
BTW, you, of all people with your technical know-how, should understand and back what Davel is saying. IMHO
Why aren't you? Does it spoil your agenda maybe?
People are hypothesising about a child not being able to open a door without any knowledge of the actual door. Have you pointed that out to them? Very young children are able to open this type of door, and that's a fact.
Last night my 21 month old son showed me (proudly) that he could not only unlock, but open our sliding glass door. Does anyone know of an extra lock that I can use to put on it?
https://www.mamapedia.com/article/toddler-can-unlock-and-open-sliding-glass-door
Yep, but as Madeleine is short for her age, it would need a girl of the same height and the same doors, with the same in built frictionsWe don't know any of that (friction), so if by chance it was a very easily moved door, we can't say for certain it could not be done.
So she, wasn't four she was three... I seem to remember the remark about size but can't find it now.... Happy to let it go seeing as, some, think that babies can open patio doors it's not really importantShe had been alive for 3 years and 50 weeks so she was closer to being 4 than just 3 years.
Sil, what are you on about.You should have wrapped this in an IYO, because that is what most of this is.
You obviously do not understand the Mathematics of it. I understand the priciples of it and used to use it often.... altho I have forgotten the Mathematical side of it now.
Of course her pull will be affected by her height, her weight and stength.
..... and With Madeleine being shorter, there will be a vertical component to the thrust, which will reduce the horizontal thrust and also tend to jam the patio door as it slides, as it pulls the one corner of the sliding window down.
Most handles are a metre (100 cm) high. With Madeleine being only 90 cm according to her Mum, the opening handle/grip will be 10 cm ABOVE the TOP of her head. That would make the pulling or pushing process very very hard and probably impossible for Madeleine
Suggest that you do what Davel did, or sit on a low stool and try it yourself with your hands as high above your head. Then see how you get on relative to opening the door from a standing position
Then compare your weight and strength to those of Madeleine. Putting the two components together, I bet there wouldn't be much horizontal thrust left
What we are not hypothesizing about is that the PJ who were there in the final report said it was highly unlikely that maddie left the, apartment herselfBut they were taking Kate's and Gerry's opinion about that, but they ignore the McCann's opinion that Madeleine was abducted. IMO You can't take advice from the same people they were accusing of being involved.
You should have wrapped this in an IYO, because that is what most of this is.
Davel was using simple trigonometry re right-angle triangles - SOH - CAH - TOA. I learned that about age 14.
I know what Kate and Gerry said about Madeleine's height. IMO they got it wrong.
What we are not hypothesizing about is that the PJ who were there in the final report said it was highly unlikely that maddie left the, apartment herself
It is not trigonometry it's, applied maths... Mechanics... The resolution of forces... It's A level... So you have got it wrongIt's trigonometry. Right-angled triangles. Learnt at age 14.
It's trigonometry. Right-angled triangles. Learnt at age 14.You would not have learnt resolution of forces at 14...fact not opinion... You obviously don't understand it
If it is used in A-level Mechanics, so what? The clue is in 'applied' Maths. I was probably using it in applied maths at university, but that hardly makes it university level.
To use your own words "So you have got it wrong."
Do you ever post without childish sniping? It is sooooooooooo boring. IMO of course.
You would not have learnt resolution of forces at 14...fact not opinion... You obviously don't understand itWho said I learnt resolution of forces at age 14?
People are hypothesising about a child not being able to open a door without any knowledge of the actual door. Have you pointed that out to them? Very young children are able to open this type of door, and that's a fact.I have seen Davvel acknowledge on this thread that we don’t know whether or not Madeleine could open the door, and the fact that the police put woke and wandered as the least probable scenario tends to suggest that it’s unlikely in their view, them being in full possession of the necessary info to come to a conclusion (and I doubt they needed to consult Amazon either).
Last night my 21 month old son showed me (proudly) that he could not only unlock, but open our sliding glass door. Does anyone know of an extra lock that I can use to put on it?
https://www.mamapedia.com/article/toddler-can-unlock-and-open-sliding-glass-door
People are hypothesising about a child not being able to open a door without any knowledge of the actual door. Have you pointed that out to them? Very young children are able to open this type of door, and that's a fact.
Last night my 21 month old son showed me (proudly) that he could not only unlock, but open our sliding glass door. Does anyone know of an extra lock that I can use to put on it?
https://www.mamapedia.com/article/toddler-can-unlock-and-open-sliding-glass-door
We don't know any of that (friction), so if by chance it was a very easily moved door, we can't say for certain it could not be done.With sand about it is likely it would have lots of friction, especially in the ground runners .... it is also fairly old, has been used by 'often couldn't care less' changing guests. And judging by images of various windows and doors wasn't terribly high spec to begin with.
I have seen Davvel acknowledge on this thread that we don’t know whether or not Madeleine could open the door, and the fact that the police put woke and wandered as the least probable scenario tends to suggest that it’s unlikely in their view, them being in full possession of the necessary info to come to a conclusion (and I doubt they needed to consult Amazon either).That is an assumption.
With sand about it is likely it would have lots of friction, especially in the ground runners .... it is also fairly old, has been used by 'often couldn't care less' changing guests. And judging by images of various windows and doors wasn't terribly high spec to begin with.Where is this sand coming from?
I repeat: weighing everything up, including the mechanical disadvantages caused by Madeleines lack of height, body weight etc. + potential friction I am extremely doubtful that she could have done it.
I believe Kate and Gerry, they think that that Madeleine couldn't have managed it
You should have wrapped this in an IYO, because that is what most of this is.All facts Sil, so IMO NOT necessary.
Davel was using simple trigonometry re right-angle triangles - SOH - CAH - TOA. I learned that about age 14.
I know what Kate and Gerry said about Madeleine's height. IMO they got it wrong.
That is an assumption.which bit?
Where is this sand coming from?Bring it up from the beach on their legs and shoes, buckets and spades, clothes etc.
OO-err. Clever and only 21 months too. Fancy him being able to reach the lock.
Is he going to be a giant when he grows up?
How tall do you think a boy of that age is? On average he would be between these two heights;
Boy
1.5 years 2ft 8.8in (83.2 cm)
2 years 2ft 11in (88.9 cm)
Madeleine was small for her age (averages below) but she was taller than a 21 month old.
3.5 years 3ft 4.2in (102 cm) 3ft 3.6in (100.7 cm)
4 years 3ft 5.7in (105.8 cm) 3ft 5.1in (104.5 cm)
https://www.onaverage.co.uk/body-averages/average-child-height
How tall do you think a boy of that age is? On average he would be between these two heights;
Boy
1.5 years 2ft 8.8in (83.2 cm)
2 years 2ft 11in (88.9 cm)
Madeleine was small for her age (averages below) but she was taller than a 21 month old.
3.5 years 3ft 4.2in (102 cm) 3ft 3.6in (100.7 cm)
4 years 3ft 5.7in (105.8 cm) 3ft 5.1in (104.5 cm)
https://www.onaverage.co.uk/body-averages/average-child-height
Do you have a cite for maddie being small for her age
All facts Sil, so IMO NOT necessary.Sadie, in my post I put IMO, as per forum protocol.
Yep we all did sines, cosines and tangents at about 14. And some of us used them since at a more advanced level involving forces etc.
IYO, Kate and Gerry got their daughters height wrong? So YOU, who has never met Madeleine KNOW her height better than they did?
Pull the other one Sil
Do you have a cite for maddie being small for her age
Do you have a cite for maddie being small for her age
That was what you were asked for.I know.... Perhaps someone else read the same thing and has a cite
Gooness me, so unless you have a door with a handle at an unusual height he had to reach a full 14 cm above his head to reach it. A very powerful boy. What do you feed him on to make him so strong?
Is it a patio window or is it an internal door?
Is it new or old? Does it glide along?
I am merely pointing out, in answer to those who are trying to make a case that Madeleine couldn't have opened the door, that other children can and do. In Madeleine's case she didn't need to reach any handle because the door was slightly open. This child, who was definitely younger than Madeleine, had no trouble reaching the patio door handle.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/G/03_volume_III_apensoVIII_571a.jpg)
But could she open it... Depends how stiff it is... See how her
Arms are vertical increasing the force required to open doir
As the door wasn't locked the question is irrelevant. She could have pulled or pushed the door open without reaching upwards.
It doesn't matter how old or how tall a child is, if a door is open all they have to do is crawl out.
Depends if the door is open wide enough... No evidence that it was
That's just it, we only have Kate's say-so as to what she found at 10pm.As they are not suspects it looks like SY and the PJ believe her IMO ... I was also thinking if SY suspected any problems with memory they would have suggested hypnosis.. No sign they did
As they are not suspects it looks like SY and the PJ believe her... I was also thinking if SY suspected any problems with memory they would have suggested hypnosis.. No sign they did
As the door wasn't locked the question is irrelevant. She could have pulled or pushed the door open without reaching upwards.I was wondering if the door was left not only unlocked but with a small gap (slightly agar) so there was room for Madeleine to get her fingertips between the door and the jamb so she didn't need to reach upward to the handle.
I tried a sliding door last week.... Pulling as an adult horizontally it was not difficult to open.... Reaching up as a child would have to it was impossible IMO
How do you know that identical forces are required to open the two diffent doors ?
Did you time travel with a force gauge?
You would not have learnt resolution of forces at 14...fact not opinion... You obviously don't understand it
The Principles of Moments and The Triangle of Forces were part of the "O" Level Physics syllabus. Figure out the age group from that.Do you have a cite for that
I think that she was petite Davel. Possibly something to do with her coloboma; that sometimes causes children to be smaller.
Her Mum certainly said that she was 90 cm tall, but it has been mentioned several times and must have been seen by most on here before. I aint gonna waste time finding anyone a cite
And now in the middle of this interesting discussion, please excuse me, I must go
The Principles of Moments and The Triangle of Forces were part of the "O" Level Physics syllabus. Figure out the age group from that.
But could she open it... Depends how stiff it is... See how her
Arms are vertical increasing the force required to open doir
https://www.s-cool.co.uk/a-level/physics/moments-couples-and-equilibrium/revise-it/triangle-of-forces...
A level
https://www.tes.com/teaching-resource/gcse-physics-9-1-mass-weight-triangle-of-forces-equilibrium-11786348
I was wondering if the door was left not only unlocked but with a small gap (slightly agar) so there was room for Madeleine to get her fingertips between the door and the jamb so she didn't need to reach upward to the handle.
I was wondering if the door was left not only unlocked but with a small gap (slightly agar) so there was room for Madeleine to get her fingertips between the door and the jamb so she didn't need to read upward to the handle.
Doesn't mention resolution of forces... This is 2017.....sil would be talking 50 ..60...years ago....
Is this important to you
Why would it be? Except in the context of at what age one would one learn about the resolution of forces, triangle of forces call it what you will which is what you seem to be having a p*****g contest with SiL over.
During the 1950s it was "O" Level Physics. Today it is GCSE Physics. Certainly the basic principles are taught before "A" level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RI2_gJy0L0
FWIW, I've seen kids her age managing to slide heavy patio doors. What I've never seen is one of that age shutting it from the outside once they'd gone out.And that to me is the reason why Kate says MM did not exit via the patio door on her own. According to her all the gates and doors were closed.
'ere you go then it's in 'ere."The Policia Judiciaria requests information about the whereabouts of Madeleine Beth McCann, born on 12-05-2003 (three years old) with the following physical characteristics: 90 cm in height, light chestnut/blond hair, blue/green left eye and a green right eye with a brown mark in the pupil."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm
I am merely pointing out, in answer to those who are trying to make a case that Madeleine couldn't have opened the door, that other children can and do. In Madeleine's case she didn't need to reach any handle because the door was slightly open. This child, who was definitely younger than Madeleine, had no trouble reaching the patio door handle.If the door handle was in the centre as per the photo opening the door was more a push than a pull. I'm sure a human can push a greater weight than they can pull.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/G/03_volume_III_apensoVIII_571a.jpg)
Sadie, in my post I put IMO, as per forum protocol.No need for an IMO, Sil, I gave no opinions
I know.... Perhaps someone else read the same thing and has a citeI read it and can confirm that Kate said that Madeleine was 90 cm tall. It has been on here more than once, and probably has been wiped off the internet by now.
If the door handle was in the centre as per the photo opening the door was more a push than a pull. I'm sure a human can push a greater weight than they can pull.
"When you push there is one component of force that adds to the weight of the body and hence there is more friction. When you pull the vertical component of force is against the weight of body and hence there is less overall friction. So it is easy to pull than push an object." That is applying to an object lower than the shoulders so is that effect reversed when the handle is higher than the shoulder?
I am merely pointing out, in answer to those who are trying to make a case that Madeleine couldn't have opened the door, that other children can and do. In Madeleine's case she didn't need to reach any handle because the door was slightly open. This child, who was definitely younger than Madeleine, had no trouble reaching the patio door handle.As an artist, specializing on figure drawing I can see from her body proportions, that child looks considerably older than Madeleine.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/G/03_volume_III_apensoVIII_571a.jpg)
Expected. Making claims then not following them up is not the way the forum works.
It's trigonometry. Right-angled triangles. Learnt at age 14.Davel is correct Sil
If it is used in A-level Mechanics, so what? The clue is in 'applied' Maths. I was probably using it in applied maths at university, but that hardly makes it university level.
To use your own words "So you have got it wrong."
Do you ever post without childish sniping? It is sooooooooooo boring. IMO of course.
It doesn't matter how old or how tall a child is, if a door is open all they have to do is crawl out.Err, Yep @)(++(*
That's just it, we only have Kate's say-so as to what she found at 10pm.
How do you know that identical forces are required to open the two diffent doors ?Why aren't YOU supporting Davel, Alice?
Did you time travel with a force gauge?
'ere you go then it's in 'ere.Thank you. That is very useful 8((()*/
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm
That's correct.How do you know how the patio door was left? Were you there?
How do you know how the patio door was left? Were you there?
As an artist, specializing on figure drawing I can see from her body proportions, that child looks considerably older than Madeleine.
The handle is in line with her nose NOT 10 clear centimetres above her head, as with Madeleine That girl is approx 20 cm taller than Madeleine
... And even she is using two hands. Did she manage to open it ?
TBH, Gunit, you are wasting your time, because altho many on here [say] they dont understand the mechanical disadvantages, SY and Porto special Madeleine group will have experts to advise them. Both Alice and slarti should know what they are talking about, but prefer it seems to keep quiet.
I didn't need to be there, Sadie, all I needed to do was read the files where the evidence can be found.Where do you think the PJ came by this information: "permitting there to be a gap in which to introduce a hand"?
Because this latter access is most convenient, it being closest to the restaurant entrance, the lounge door stayed closed but not locked in a way that it could be opened from the outside, permitting there to be a gap in which to introduce a hand {i.e. the reporter says that the door would be ajar}.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm
Davel had stated that he cant find the evidence that Kate said that Madeleine was 90cm tall . It probabl;y has been wiped now from the forum and internet, but it has been posted at least twice here ... and i can confirm seeing the same info
This thread is in a mess. Some posts are from the previous thread and when you answer them on this thread, the post comes up on the earlier thread.
Why were they split? They were fine before, IMO ... and now they are in amess. I have just wasted well over an hour answering posts to find that some of the answers are elsewhere.
I am truly annoyed.
IMO, We should not be dismissing Kates evidence, because we now know that Amaral got it all wrong about the dogs alerts.
There is NO evidence against either of the Mccanns, and SY and the Porto Special group have confirmed that they are NOT suspects
So no cite then?There was a cite given, in the form of a description of Madeleine issued by the PJ on the 5th May 2007.
Davel is correct SilPossibly my post got wiped, but I have gone beyond age 14 trigonometry, at A level and university level.
You very obviously haven't gone beyond the simple Trigonometry ... and are not aware of its use at higher levels.
I see that Davels post showing the Maths and Mechanics has been removed and I wonder why?
That post was an important post, but it has gone 8)-))) %56&
Why?
As an artist, specializing on figure drawing I can see from her body proportions, that child looks considerably older than Madeleine.
The handle is in line with her nose NOT 10 clear centimetres above her head, as with Madeleine That girl is approx 20 cm taller than Madeleine
... And even she is using two hands. Did she manage to open it ?
TBH, Gunit, you are wasting your time, because altho many on here [say] they dont understand the mechanical disadvantages, SY and Porto special Madeleine group will have experts to advise them. Both Alice and slarti should know what they are talking about, but prefer it seems to keep quiet.
Where do you think the PJ came by this information: "permitting there to be a gap in which to introduce a hand"?
This report was based upon a timeline analysis (the result of statements made to the PJ and to Control Risk by 5 elements of the T9, by the client support service staff from Mark Warner and from other statements, a text having been compiled for an English analyst) and various chronogrammes of communications elaborated and presented to the British police who were in Portugal in cooperation with the PJ.So fairly reliable would you say?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm
So fairly reliable would you say?
Are you wondering if the police invented it? It has never been denied.Well does that make it a fact then? Fact: "The patio door was left with a small gap so it can be opened from the outside".
Well does that make it a fact then? Fact: "The patio door was left with a small gap so it can be opened from the outside".
https://youtu.be/na4aBr5PTYY?t=263
GMcC is opening the patio door; it is not ultra smooth, but the door moves easily.
IMO a 4 year old would be able to open the patio door.
Would a child of four close it after them? I think not. Neither do I think a child of four would climb over a gate at the top of steps in the dark. IMO
It seems to me that Madeleine could have slid open the unlocked patio door. Whether she did is another question altogether.
She could have closed the door behind her in order to protect her siblings. As you say, it is a possibility in the midst of other possibilities. At the end of the day it is the hard evidence which counts and not what witnesses claim to have done or seen because witnesses in such a situation are unreliable.
" they must have had their reasons for determining that." Could be true but until we see the whole picture we don't understand what is going on.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3bfO1rE7YgUntil witness statements are checked and co-ordinated each one is only a small part of the whole as seen from one point of view. In my opinion it takes a competent investigation taking in the overall picture to work out what might have happened.
As we know the PJ in the final report concluded that the woke and wandered scenario was the least likely to have happened ... they must have had their reasons for determining that.