Could Madeleine have slid open the unlocked patio door?

[John]

In his rotatory, Matthew Oldfield claims he 'shut' the patio door after his 9.30pm check of the McCann children?

00.40.06   "And I just sort of came back out really through the same way and shutting the patio doors'."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

[Miss Taken Identity]

killing two birds with one stone. ( only pigeons and gulls),

1. Matthew may have closed the patio door behind him at 9.30pm however, it must be recognised that there was no PHYSICAL checking since just after 8pm when the parents left for dinner and drinks. MBM could have been well gone
2. had she slid her fingerers through the gap on the doors she may not have left  fingerprints, or if there were none it must mean the doors were cleaned, hard to imagine three kids  and glass doors and no we prints on them...;)

[Carana]

FWIW, I've seen kids her age managing to slide heavy patio doors. What I've never seen is one of that age shutting it from the outside once they'd gone out.

[Robittybob1]

FWIW, I've seen kids her age managing to slide heavy patio doors. What I've never seen is one of that age shutting it from the outside once they'd gone out.

And that to me is the reason why Kate says MM did not exit via the patio door on her own.  According to her all the gates and doors were closed.

[Robittybob1]

'ere you go then it's in 'ere.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm

"The Policia Judiciaria requests information about the whereabouts of Madeleine Beth McCann, born on 12-05-2003 (three years old) with the following physical characteristics: 90 cm in height, light chestnut/blond hair, blue/green left eye and a green right eye with a brown mark in the pupil."

[Robittybob1]

I am merely pointing out, in answer to those who are trying to make a case that Madeleine couldn't have opened the door, that other children can and do. In Madeleine's case she didn't need to reach any handle because the door was slightly open. This child, who was definitely younger than Madeleine, had no trouble reaching the patio door handle.

If the door handle was in the centre as per the photo opening the door was more a push than a pull.  I'm sure a human can push a greater weight than they can pull.
"When you push there is one component of force that adds to the weight of the body and hence there is more friction. When you pull the vertical component of force is against the weight of body and hence there is less overall friction. So it is easy to pull than push an object."  That is applying to an object lower than the shoulders so is that effect reversed when the handle is higher than the shoulder?

[sadie]

Sadie, in my post I put IMO, as per forum protocol.

No need for an IMO, Sil, I gave no opinions

[sadie]

I know.... Perhaps someone else read the same thing and has a cite

I read it and can confirm that Kate said that Madeleine was 90 cm tall.  It has been on here more than once, and probably has been wiped off the internet by now.

People have seen it Davel, even if they are not owning up.

[Carana]

If the door handle was in the centre as per the photo opening the door was more a push than a pull.  I'm sure a human can push a greater weight than they can pull.
"When you push there is one component of force that adds to the weight of the body and hence there is more friction. When you pull the vertical component of force is against the weight of body and hence there is less overall friction. So it is easy to pull than push an object."  That is applying to an object lower than the shoulders so is that effect reversed when the handle is higher than the shoulder?

It looks like there's a handle in the middle in 5A (a bit small to see clearly). However, if it was slightly ajar, she could, in theory, have pulled it open from lower down.

B - Pages 967-972 Processo vol 4.
At 11:00am on 4 May 2007 I, IT, assistant-specialist, began to examine the following location:
At apartment 5A, Ocean Club:

- Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.

- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm#p4p967

I'd have thought she'd have left prints on the inside while trying to get it open, but the only identifiable print on the side, after a mega search via Interpol, turned out to belong to a GNR officer.

I haven't found anything about prints on the inside, but it's not clear if they checked and didn't find any, or whether they didn't check the inside... so dunno.

Even if she did manage to get out, she would have had to think to close it again and open / close the two gates.

We all know that kids can get up to all sorts of surprising things, but I just find it unlikely that a sleepy child, not quite four years old would do all of that.

[sadie]

I am merely pointing out, in answer to those who are trying to make a case that Madeleine couldn't have opened the door, that other children can and do. In Madeleine's case she didn't need to reach any handle because the door was slightly open. This child, who was definitely younger than Madeleine, had no trouble reaching the patio door handle.

As an artist, specializing on figure drawing I can see from her body proportions, that child looks considerably older than Madeleine. 

The handle is in line with her nose NOT 10 clear centimetres above her head, as with Madeleine  That girl is approx 20 cm taller than Madeleine

... And even she is using two hands.  Did she manage to open it ?


TBH, Gunit, you are wasting your time, because altho many on here [say] they dont understand the mechanical disadvantages, SY and Porto special Madeleine group will have experts to advise them.  Both Alice and slarti should know what they are talking about, but prefer it seems to keep quiet.

[sadie]

Expected. Making claims then not following them up is not the way the forum works.

Davel had stated that he cant find the evidence that Kate said that Madeleine was 90cm tall .  It probabl;y has been wiped now from the forum and internet, but it has been posted at least twice here ... and i can confirm seeing the same info


This thread is in a mess.  Some posts are from the previous thread and when you answer them on this thread, the post comes up on the earlier thread.

Why were they split?  They were fine before, IMO ... and now they are in amess.  I have just wasted well over an hour answering posts to find that some of the answers are elsewhere.

I am truly annoyed.

[sadie]

It's trigonometry. Right-angled triangles. Learnt at age 14.

If it is used in A-level Mechanics, so what?  The clue is in 'applied' Maths.  I was probably using it in applied maths at university, but that hardly makes it university level.

To use your own words "So you have got it wrong."

Do you ever post without childish sniping?  It is sooooooooooo boring.  IMO of course.

Davel is correct Sil

You very obviously haven't gone beyond the simple Trigonometry ... and are not aware of its use at higher levels.

I see that Davels post showing the Maths and Mechanics has been removed and I wonder why?

That post was an important post, but it has gone  

Why?

[sadie]

It doesn't matter how old or how tall a child is, if a door is open all they have to do is crawl out.

Err, Yep 

But we are talking about the ability of Madeleine to open a door where the handle is 10 cm above the top of her head, Angelo.  Not whether she could walk out or crawl out of an already open door.

Davel and I, both having studied applied Maths and applied Mechanics at an advanced level, maintain that she would be unable to provide the forces necessary.  I have forgotten so much of the Maths now, but remember the principles. 

I taught Maths at secondary school for a while, but apart from the principles it has virtually gone mow

[sadie]

That's just it, we only have Kate's say-so as to what she found at 10pm.

IMO, We should not be dismissing Kates evidence, because we now know that Amaral got it all wrong about the dogs alerts. 

There is NO evidence against either of the Mccanns, and SY and the Porto Special group have confirmed that they are NOT suspects

[sadie]

How do you know that identical forces are required to open the two diffent doors ?
Did you time travel with a force gauge?

Why aren't YOU supporting Davel, Alice?

With your Mechanical training and expertise, YOU KNOW what he is saying is correct.