Did this finding get followed up by the PJ?

[Brietta]

Keep it going, Robitty.
I'm enjoying your research and the pooling of it all into this one resource.  Well done!

[Robittybob1]

Keep it going, Robitty.
I'm enjoying your research and the pooling of it all into this one resource.  Well done!

I have virtually run out of ideas ATM.

[Sunny]

Jane Tanner's description of the man carrying the child 4th May statement.
"Personal description:

( * ) Dark skinned individual, male sex, aged between 35-40, slim physical appearance, about 1.70m tall. Very dark, thick hair, longer at the back (she could only see him from behind). He was wearing linen type cloth trousers, beige to golden in colour, a "duffy" sic type jacket (but not that thick). His shoes were dark in colour, classic type. He had a hurried walk. He was carrying a child, who was lying on both his arms, in front of his chest. By the way he was dressed, he gave her the impression that he was not a tourist, because he was very "warmly dressed"."

I have only just noticed Jane's reason for her abductor not being a tourist i.e. because he was "warmly dressed".  That is odd because didn't Kate go back to get another jumper from the apartment as she was cold?  So then she would be "warmly dressed" too.

Rachel
'Do you remember the clothing that you wore that evening down at the Tapas Bar''
 Reply 'Erm yeah, I had white trousers on and some high heeled sandals which I then changed into trainers after, you know when we went back to check on Grace after we discovered that Madeleine had gone, erm and I mean I know I would have had my fleece and my denim jacket on because it was freezing sitting outside, you know and maybe a T-shirt and a jumper as well'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

David
1485 "And conversation' Because I understand it was cold, rainy on a couple of days.'
 Reply "Mm, mm, yes. I mean from the, you know from the, yeah it was quite cold some nights and you know perhaps nearly too cold to be sat outside err but there was certainly nothing that you know led me to any concern during that week err you know it was, you know we were all quite happy with, I say, what we were doing and err where, you know the way that we'd tackle things, it was err you know there's nothing that in my mind worried me.'

Jane
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s
big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably
came down to about here,
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Tanner4of7_HO4.pdf

So perhaps none of them were tourists either by her reckoning.

[Robittybob1]

See if you can work out who are the locals and who are the tourists in this clip? 
https://youtu.be/NC1PUw-y7Nw

[Robittybob1]

I have only just noticed Jane's reason for her abductor not being a tourist i.e. because he was "warmly dressed".  That is odd because didn't Kate go back to get another jumper from the apartment as she was cold?  So then she would be "warmly dressed" too.

Rachel
'Do you remember the clothing that you wore that evening down at the Tapas Bar''
 Reply 'Erm yeah, I had white trousers on and some high heeled sandals which I then changed into trainers after, you know when we went back to check on Grace after we discovered that Madeleine had gone, erm and I mean I know I would have had my fleece and my denim jacket on because it was freezing sitting outside, you know and maybe a T-shirt and a jumper as well'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

David
1485 "And conversation' Because I understand it was cold, rainy on a couple of days.'
 Reply "Mm, mm, yes. I mean from the, you know from the, yeah it was quite cold some nights and you know perhaps nearly too cold to be sat outside err but there was certainly nothing that you know led me to any concern during that week err you know it was, you know we were all quite happy with, I say, what we were doing and err where, you know the way that we'd tackle things, it was err you know there's nothing that in my mind worried me.'

Jane
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s
big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably
came down to about here,
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Tanner4of7_HO4.pdf

So perhaps none of them were tourists either by her reckoning.

"That is odd because didn't Kate go back to get another jumper from the apartment as she was cold?  So then she would be "warmly dressed" too."  At what time was this for that would have constituted another check on the kids too?

What Rachael describes happened after the alarm. 

"Rachel
'Do you remember the clothing that you wore that evening down at the Tapas Bar''
 Reply 'Erm yeah, I had white trousers on and some high heeled sandals which I then changed into trainers after, you know when we went back to check on Grace after we discovered that Madeleine had gone, erm and I mean I know I would have had my fleece and my denim jacket on because it was freezing sitting outside, you know and maybe a T-shirt and a jumper as well'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm"

When did Jane start dressing like that?
"Jane
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s
big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably
came down to about here,
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Tanner4of7_HO4.pdf"

[Sunny]

"That is odd because didn't Kate go back to get another jumper from the apartment as she was cold?  So then she would be "warmly dressed" too."  At what time was this for that would have constituted another check on the kids too?

What Rachael describes happened after the alarm. 

"Rachel
'Do you remember the clothing that you wore that evening down at the Tapas Bar''
 Reply 'Erm yeah, I had white trousers on and some high heeled sandals which I then changed into trainers after, you know when we went back to check on Grace after we discovered that Madeleine had gone, erm and I mean I know I would have had my fleece and my denim jacket on because it was freezing sitting outside, you know and maybe a T-shirt and a jumper as well'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm"

When did Jane start dressing like that?
"Jane
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s
big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably
came down to about here,
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Tanner4of7_HO4.pdf"

Robittybob1 so it was "freezing" to Rachel just after the alarm was raised by Kate so it would still have been very cold and probably felt "freezing" 15 to 20 minutes earlier so that would explain why Jane's person was wrapped warmly and nothing at all to do with him not being a tourist IMO.

Not trying to argue with you it is just something I spotted from your post.

[pathfinder73]

I have only just noticed Jane's reason for her abductor not being a tourist i.e. because he was "warmly dressed".  That is odd because didn't Kate go back to get another jumper from the apartment as she was cold?  So then she would be "warmly dressed" too.

Rachel
'Do you remember the clothing that you wore that evening down at the Tapas Bar''
 Reply 'Erm yeah, I had white trousers on and some high heeled sandals which I then changed into trainers after, you know when we went back to check on Grace after we discovered that Madeleine had gone, erm and I mean I know I would have had my fleece and my denim jacket on because it was freezing sitting outside, you know and maybe a T-shirt and a jumper as well'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

David
1485 "And conversation' Because I understand it was cold, rainy on a couple of days.'
 Reply "Mm, mm, yes. I mean from the, you know from the, yeah it was quite cold some nights and you know perhaps nearly too cold to be sat outside err but there was certainly nothing that you know led me to any concern during that week err you know it was, you know we were all quite happy with, I say, what we were doing and err where, you know the way that we'd tackle things, it was err you know there's nothing that in my mind worried me.'

Jane
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s
big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably
came down to about here,
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Tanner4of7_HO4.pdf

So perhaps none of them were tourists either by her reckoning.

Rachel changed into trainers.
[Edited by Mod to keep on topic]

[Robittybob1]

Robittybob1 so it was "freezing" to Rachel just after the alarm was raised by Kate so it would still have been very cold and probably felt "freezing" 15 to 20 minutes earlier so that would explain why Jane's person was wrapped warmly and nothing at all to do with him not being a tourist IMO.

Not trying to argue with you it is just something I spotted from your post.

No but what I'm trying to get at is if your base camp is only 200 meters away you can change your clothing as the day goes and it gets colder.

Do you think the person carrying the child had a place to go to so he could put on extra layers of clothing?

[G-Unit]

 

Robittybob1 so it was "freezing" to Rachel just after the alarm was raised by Kate so it would still have been very cold and probably felt "freezing" 15 to 20 minutes earlier so that would explain why Jane's person was wrapped warmly and nothing at all to do with him not being a tourist IMO.

Not trying to argue with you it is just something I spotted from your post.

Rachael seems to have warmed up during the meal as she had removed her jacket;

 I think also there’d been things left at the table, like err cameras and Rachael’s jacket and things so I, I err, I think I went back to the table then to pick up err what had been left behind,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

[Sunny]

Rachael seems to have warmed up during the meal as she had removed her jacket;

 I think also there’d been things left at the table, like err cameras and Rachael’s jacket and things so I, I err, I think I went back to the table then to pick up err what had been left behind,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

I have found that a glass or two of wine does warm me up too.

[Sunny]

No but what I'm trying to get at is if your base camp is only 200 meters away you can change your clothing as the day goes and it gets colder.

Do you think the person carrying the child had a place to go to so he could put on extra layers of clothing?

I couldn't really say from what we know Robittybob1 but if he had any care for the child he was carrying he would have wrapped her up too as he apparently did himself. Sorry I can't give a definitive answer on this.

[Robittybob1]

I couldn't really say from what we know Robittybob1 but if he had any care for the child he was carrying he would have wrapped her up too as he apparently did himself. Sorry I can't give a definitive answer on this.

Just call me Rob or Robitty.   That is a good point he worries about the cold for himself but didn't wrap the child.

That could mean they were not going that far.  Hadn't come that far and destination not that far. 
I must admit I'm a bit concerned about the testimony of the laundry men.
Points I've noted causing concern.
1.  Testimony of seeing a strange person in the stairwell 6 years after the event, yet in their statements both say they didn't see anything suspicious leading up to the event.

2.  They seem to be picking laundry up from Block 5 long after the laundry closes at 6:00 PM as per the other laundry and cleaner statements.

3. They had access to a vehicle.
4. The PJ had already questioned one of them why he was working late.   ( I wonder if the PJ really did check their alibis?)

5.  The Laundry man said his son lived there in the garage.  Yet one son would have only been 15 at the time, if we are talking about the same son 6 years later being 21.

6. 15 year olds don't play with kid's toys.

7. Talks of going for a drive after  9:30 to pick up his son from a village about 7 km away. (was this confirmed?)

[Sunny]

Just call me Rob or Robitty.   That is a good point he worries about the cold for himself but didn't wrap the child.

That could mean they were not going that far.  Hadn't come that far and destination not that far. 
I must admit I'm a bit concerned about the testimony of the laundry men.
Points I've noted causing concern.
1.  Testimony of seeing a strange person in the stairwell 6 years after the event, yet in their statements both say they didn't see anything suspicious leading up to the event. They aren't the only ones to suddenly get a memory, there have been a number of others, can't recall actual names though at the moment IMO

2.  They seem to be picking laundry up from Block 5 long after the laundry closes at 6:00 PM as per the other laundry and cleaner statements.  - yes very unusual I would think although I suppose it depends on when they would normally pick up the laundry from Block 5

3. They had access to a vehicle. - Yes and one with a hidden back part
4. The PJ had already questioned one of them why he was working late.   ( I wonder if the PJ really did check their alibis?) - I don't think they considered the laundry man a suspect and would have dozens of people to check, so probably not

5.  The Laundry man said his son lived there in the garage.  Yet one son would have only been 15 at the time, if we are talking about the same son 6 years later being 21. - It was his stepson wasn't it and I can imagine a 15 year old loving being in a seperate space away from the parents

6. 15 year olds don't play with kid's toys. - but if the parent was a hoarder or keeping the toys for future grandchildren it is possibly innocent

7. Talks of going for a drive after  9:30 to pick up his son from a village about 7 km away. (was this confirmed?)
 - It is odd though if his stepson was only 15 years old why was he working so far from home, and so late at night

That is a good point he worries about the cold for himself but didn't wrap the child.

That could mean they were not going that far.  Hadn't come that far and destination not that far. 
I must admit I'm a bit concerned about the testimony of the laundry men.
Points I've noted causing concern.
1.  Testimony of seeing a strange person in the stairwell 6 years after the event, yet in their statements both say they didn't see anything suspicious leading up to the event. They aren't the only ones to suddenly get a memory, there have been a number of others, can't recall actual names though at the moment IMO

2.  They seem to be picking laundry up from Block 5 long after the laundry closes at 6:00 PM as per the other laundry and cleaner statements.  - yes very unusual I would think although I suppose it depends on when they would normally pick up the laundry from Block 5

3. They had access to a vehicle. - Yes and one with a hidden back part
4. The PJ had already questioned one of them why he was working late.   ( I wonder if the PJ really did check their alibis?) - I don't think they considered the laundry man a suspect and would have dozens of people to check, so probably not

5.  The Laundry man said his son lived there in the garage.  Yet one son would have only been 15 at the time, if we are talking about the same son 6 years later being 21. - It was his stepson wasn't it and I can imagine a 15 year old loving being in a seperate space away from the parents

6. 15 year olds don't play with kid's toys. - but if the parent was a hoarder or keeping the toys for future grandchildren it is possibly innocent

7. Talks of going for a drive after  9:30 to pick up his son from a village about 7 km away. (was this confirmed?)
 - It is odd though if his stepson was only 15 years old why was he working so far from home, and so late at night

My answers in red Rob (whew much easier than Robittybob1).

I hope that they make sense but you have made me think about these things here too, so thanks.

[Robittybob1]

Looking back through the forum there was a thread http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2917.msg101640#msg101640  where it is explained the the word "dreadlocks" is an incorrect translation.

Pegasus pointed out "The original English language rog of SC is not in the published files.
Only the Portuguese police translation of it is in the published files, and it says "tochas".
The page is: Cartas Rogatorias File 3, page 44
(On forums you see the word "tochas" incorrectly reverse-translated back into English as "dreadlocks")."
this appears to be confirmed.

Thinking a bit more about what Pegasus claimed I realise now it is not possible to know where the original translation error occurred.
Either from the English to the Portuguese
or later the Portuguese back to English.

[Sunny]

Yes I agree "um homem com tochas" comes back as a "man with torches".  I have tried 3 online translations and they all pretty much come back with the same answer.

Or is "tochas" slang for something else as well as torches. The Americans call hair on the side of someones head, "bangs" don't they.  So if there was a translation from US English using "bangs" it would look like they had been hit on the head.

Anyone have a dictionary of Portuguese slang?