Author Topic: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?  (Read 79326 times)

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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #645 on: September 05, 2018, 09:45:05 PM »
The word forensic appears 18  times in Martin Grimes' report. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
For example:
"Therefore in this particular case, as no human remains were located, the only
alert indications that may become corroborated are those that the CSI dog
indicated by forensic laboratory analysis."
Would you agree "forensic laboratory analysis" is practically the same as "forensic testing"?

You continue to miss the point. I'll take it that is because you choose to rather than you cannot see what it is.

"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #646 on: September 05, 2018, 10:08:39 PM »
You continue to miss the point. I'll take it that is because you choose to rather than you cannot see what it is.
I think you need to make your point again then for I cannot see what it is.  It is not that I choose to be difficult.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #647 on: September 05, 2018, 10:38:03 PM »
You continue to miss the point. I'll take it that is because you choose to rather than you cannot see what it is.
What you quote is word for word from the Martin Grime report.   I don't agree with what Brietta says entirely.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm#mg2473

The part I didn't like was "I believe that equates with a false positive as far as the reaction of the dog is concerned.  Therefore an irrelevance."
and I try to make that clear in the next post http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10048.msg485712#msg485712

Where I say DNA was found, but the problem was that it wasn't confirmed to be Madeleine's.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #648 on: September 05, 2018, 10:52:05 PM »
I have questioned how DNA findings would ever confirm a cadaver dog alert.  No one ever gave me a satisfactory answer.

Refer to http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9966.0  "What evidence would confirm a cadaver dog alert?"
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Offline pathfinder73

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #649 on: September 05, 2018, 11:02:54 PM »
The PJ must have accepted that as fact.

They wanted a reconstruction and you think they accepted that as fact with no evidence to support it. In your dreams.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #650 on: September 05, 2018, 11:16:11 PM »
They wanted a reconstruction and you think they accepted that as fact with no evidence to support it. In your dreams.
What - do you think that if Gerry closed the window during a reconstruction the PJ will believe the McCanns that the window was open?    Silvia said  Gerry closed the window and the PJ believed that (her statement).  No reconstruction would make any difference.
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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #651 on: September 05, 2018, 11:19:56 PM »
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #652 on: September 06, 2018, 12:01:03 AM »
I think you need to make your point again then for I cannot see what it is.  It is not that I choose to be difficult.

Brietta posted:
"Martin Grime said 'suggestive of cadaver odour' to be determined by forensic testing"
According to the archived documents held by the court, Document Ref No(201/07.0GALGS, p. 2477). Mr Grime's report said:
"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD’s alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is “cadaver scent” contaminant.  This  does  not  how  however  suggest  a  motive  or suspect  as  cross  contamination   could  be  as  a  result  of  a  number  of  given  scenarios  and  in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence"
I would suggest finding out precisley what the law means by corroborating evidence before saddling up.
When where and how did "corroborating evidence" morph into "to be determined by forensic testing".

It's only about the third time I have asked in as many weeks. It really isn't too difficult to understand.
The trick is spotting the bit where the two texts are at variance.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #653 on: September 06, 2018, 12:12:49 AM »
Brietta posted:
"Martin Grime said 'suggestive of cadaver odour' to be determined by forensic testing"
According to the archived documents held by the court, Document Ref No(201/07.0GALGS, p. 2477). Mr Grime's report said:
"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD’s alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is “cadaver scent” contaminant.  This  does  not  how  however  suggest  a  motive  or suspect  as  cross  contamination   could  be  as  a  result  of  a  number  of  given  scenarios  and  in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence"
I would suggest finding out precisley what the law means by corroborating evidence before saddling up.
When where and how did "corroborating evidence" morph into "to be determined by forensic testing".

It's only about the third time I have asked in as many weeks. It really isn't too difficult to understand.
The trick is spotting the bit where the two texts are at variance.
That is exactly the reason I started that thread asking about "corroborating evidence".
It was in Martin Grimes rogatory where he said:
"Every alert can be subject to interpretation, it has to be confirmed. The signals of an alert are only just that. Once the alert has been given by the dog, it is up to the investigator/forensic scientist to locate, identify and scientifically provide the evidence of DNA, etc. "

Because the PJ seem to focus on the finding of DNA one is lead to understand that corroborating evidence was going to be DNA. (which is found by forensic analysis).
I can see how one gets sidetracked into thinking only forensics will solve the issue as to whether the alerts were really to a cadaver or not.

What do you include in the set called "corroborating evidence" then?
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Offline Sunny

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #654 on: September 06, 2018, 06:11:22 AM »

"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD’s alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is “cadaver scent” contaminant.  This  does  not  how  however  suggest  a  motive  or suspect  as  cross  contamination   could  be  as  a  result  of  a  number  of  given  scenarios  and  in any event no evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from these alerts unless they can be confirmed with corroborating evidence"

Sorry for snipping your post Alice but I have just noticed that it would seem to me that Martin Grime was confident that the dog smelt cadaver scent only that there was a possibility of cross contamination.

I agree with your post entirely, Brietta has changed the meaning of Martin Grimes statement IMO

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #655 on: September 06, 2018, 06:36:23 AM »
Sorry for snipping your post Alice but I have just noticed that it would seem to me that Martin Grime was confident that the dog smelt cadaver scent only that there was a possibility of cross contamination.

I agree with your post entirely, Brietta has changed the meaning of Martin Grimes statement IMO
What did you mean by " .... that the dog smelt cadaver scent only that there was a possibility of cross contamination"?
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Offline Sunny

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #656 on: September 06, 2018, 06:43:12 AM »
What did you mean by " .... that the dog smelt cadaver scent only that there was a possibility of cross contamination"?

Did you read the quote I shared Rob?  Here is a snip of the snipped Martin Grime quote.

"My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD’s alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is “cadaver scent” contaminant.  This  does  not  how  however  suggest  a  motive  or suspect  as  cross  contamination   could  be  as  a  result  of  a  number  of  given  scenarios"
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Offline Lace

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #657 on: September 06, 2018, 07:30:10 AM »
i can easily clean a window pane without touching the window .why would you need to touch the frames ? This is a holiday apt ? Deep cleaning would only be done between guests so far as I’ve observed cleaners doing my hotel rooms .
Note only Kates fingerprints were on the window .
It’s simply no use arguing with forensic evidence to suit your questioning which hand she would use..

I'm not arguing about the forensic evidence,  I'm arguing about the fact that Amaral took the fingerprints to mean that Kate had opened the window to stage an abduction.    IMO Amaral jumped to conclusions the same way he jumped to conclusions of the cadaver alerts.   If you are right handed why would you open the window with your left hand?   Why would a part of your palm print be there when there is a handle to open the window?  IMO Kate leant on the window to look out to see if she could see Madeleine.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #658 on: September 06, 2018, 07:35:26 AM »
Sorry for snipping your post Alice but I have just noticed that it would seem to me that Martin Grime was confident that the dog smelt cadaver scent only that there was a possibility of cross contamination.

I agree with your post entirely, Brietta has changed the meaning of Martin Grimes statement IMO

And I think you are totally wrong... And that's, all it is... Your opinion.... The FACT that the alerts have no evidential reliability confirms their unreliability... And Harrison said no inference could be taken from the alerts.. All my opinion
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 08:22:58 AM by slartibartfast »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Does Madeleine have the right to be found?
« Reply #659 on: September 06, 2018, 07:48:53 AM »
I'm not arguing about the forensic evidence,  I'm arguing about the fact that Amaral took the fingerprints to mean that Kate had opened the window to stage an abduction.    IMO Amaral jumped to conclusions the same way he jumped to conclusions of the cadaver alerts.   If you are right handed why would you open the window with your left hand?   Why would a part of your palm print be there when there is a handle to open the window?  IMO Kate leant on the window to look out to see if she could see Madeleine.

Is Kate McCann right handed?
Was there part of a palm print found?
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