Jeremy Bamber - Lead Detective Sgt Stan Jones has his say

[Myster]

I've never seen that colour photo before, only the B&W one taken from just in front of the AGA.

Aaah.... I see now, the chair in front of the back vestibule/kitchen door. But if Jeremy Bamber had been coming down the main hall staircase chasing Nevill then he would have to pass through the double half-doors between kitchen and main hall, and these didn't have a chair in front of them blocking the way, unless someone will correct me.

[Outlook]

Here is the plan.  Mr Bamber's body is in the alcove by the back door of the kitchen.  The white phone and bullets are in position 1 and 2.  The AGA is in position 3.  The situation is much more cramped than in some earlier drawings and police sketches.  Also the stairs S3 were considered unusable due to "debris."  If you look at some of the photos of the stairs they were indeed cluttered and the walls seemed mouldy so probably not used.

[Myster]

Where is it documented that they had to force that internal door open thus pushing Nevill over onto the floor?... the only reference that I've seen about the TFU being obstructed is when they had to batter down the external back door.

[John]

You beat me to it Myster. 

The red dot denotes Nevill's final position slumped out of his chair.

Notice the adjacent door to the hall and thence to the back door.

[puglove]

Where is it documented that they had to force that internal door open thus pushing Nevill over onto the floor?... the only reference that I've seen about the TFU being obstructed is when they had to batter down the external back door.

I don't know. I've read so much over the last couple of years....Do you think the police found Ralph in the position on the edge of the chair with his head already in the scuttle? There's no way that Sheila could have placed him like that, and he could only have balanced like that because his poor body was so stiff. Oh dear.   

[Myster]

Here is the plan.  Mr Bamber's body is in the alcove by the back door of the kitchen.  The white phone and bullets are in position 1 and 2.  The AGA is in position 3.  The situation is much more cramped than in some earlier drawings and police sketches.  Also the stairs S3 were considered unusable due to "debris."  If you look at some of the photos of the stairs they were indeed cluttered and the walls seemed mouldy so probably not used.

John... I think you mean that stairs S2 not S3 were cluttered with debris... the route via S3 was blocked by a door barred on the RED side in the Bathroom wall upstairs.

[John]

Here is a photo of the stairs labelled S2.  Located just to the right of the Aga cooker.

I don't think we have a photo of the S3 stairs?

[John]

Where is it documented that they had to force that internal door open thus pushing Nevill over onto the floor?... the only reference that I've seen about the TFU being obstructed is when they had to batter down the external back door.

I must admit I have never seen this stated in any police statement.  It is probably another one of the blue forums theories.

[puglove]

Where is it documented that they had to force that internal door open thus pushing Nevill over onto the floor?... the only reference that I've seen about the TFU being obstructed is when they had to batter down the external back door.

I must admit I have never seen this stated in any police statement.  It is probably another one of the blue forums theories.

I suppose it must be, it's just something I've always taken for granted, that Ralph's body was tipped to the floor when the door behind him was forced.

Back to the drawing board.   

[Myster]

Where is it documented that they had to force that internal door open thus pushing Nevill over onto the floor?... the only reference that I've seen about the TFU being obstructed is when they had to batter down the external back door.

I don't know. I've read so much over the last couple of years....Do you think the police found Ralph in the position on the edge of the chair with his head already in the scuttle? There's no way that Sheila could have placed him like that, and he could only have balanced like that because his poor body was so stiff. Oh dear.   

I don't see the police propping him up balanced on the edge of a chair like that.. and there wasn't a copious amount of blood from his four head or two facial/jaw wounds on the floor in front of the kitchen sink, which there would have been had he been seated on the chair in front of the door, and then pushed over by the TFU to send him forward onto the floor.

The only large amount visible is running down the side of the scuttle and pooling on the floor beside it.

Either he ended up there through exhaustion, or Jeremy Bamber lifted him onto it, probably before he delivered the final four shots.

[John]

This photo gives one a good idea of the distances involved between the Aga and the door.

You will notice that the door is set back slightly from the line of the front of the Aga.  Maybe the chair behind the one in which Nevill was found was disturbed?

If you look at the photo of the scene with Nevill in it, the still upright chair is positioned right in front of the door.  I might be wrong but I cannot see anyone getting in that door with the chair sitting in such a position.

[puglove]

Where is it documented that they had to force that internal door open thus pushing Nevill over onto the floor?... the only reference that I've seen about the TFU being obstructed is when they had to batter down the external back door.

I don't know. I've read so much over the last couple of years....Do you think the police found Ralph in the position on the edge of the chair with his head already in the scuttle? There's no way that Sheila could have placed him like that, and he could only have balanced like that because his poor body was so stiff. Oh dear.   

I don't see the police propping him up balanced on the edge of a chair like that.. and there wasn't a copious amount of blood from his four head or two facial/jaw wounds on the floor in front of the kitchen sink, which there would have been had he been seated on the chair in front of the door, and then pushed over by the TFU to send him forward onto the floor.

The only large amount visible is running down the side of the scuttle and pooling on the floor beside it.

Either he ended up there through exhaustion, or Jeremy Bamber lifted him onto it, probably before he delivered the final four shots.

Don't you think that Ralph's body could only be in such a strange, precarious position, perched on the arm of the chair, because of advanced rigor mortis?

[John]

I agree with that Shona, he isn't actually in the chair, more so slumped in front of it.  Rather strange?   >@@(*&)

I wonder if any of the other photos are clearer?

[Myster]

In order to have ended up straddling it if he was pushed over by the TFU, Nevill would have had to walk under his own steam and stride over the seat and arm rest of that overturned chair.... but he was already deceased.

[puglove]

In order to have ended up straddling it if he was pushed over by the TFU, Nevill would have had to walk under his own steam and stride over the seat and arm rest of that overturned chair.... but he was already deceased.

Uwot m8??!!

I'm not getting you, Myster. I always presumed that Ralph died sitting in the chair, his body was knocked to the floor when police forced the door, and they picked him up and perched him, placing his head in the scuttle to collect the blood.

I need to watch The Big Bang. I'm sorry if I'm annoying you!