Jeremy Bamber - Lead Detective Sgt Stan Jones has his say

[Outlook]

One further thing that supports Shona is:  Has anyone looked at the device fitted to the AGA surround immediately above where Mr Bamber's head would be if he was sitting upright?  I will not prompt anyone but I have only ever seen one once before.  They are quite unusual.

See the general photo:  I am not going to post the "body" photo again as I cannot bear to do this.

It is the white and black cylindrical device.

It's a dry tea dispenser Outlook.  Made of plastic.  My mum used to have one at home too.

Yes.  They were once very popular in this country, they started in the 1960s and disappeared in the 1980s.  They are now very valuable because so few survived as they were very fragile and broke easy.  A house I stayed in had one and the button was broken.  So we had to press it with the handle of a teaspoon.

What surprises me is that if Mr Bamber was at anytime sitting upright or being attacked in this location then it would have broken.  They are very brittle and just slip on and off the wall fitting.  So I feel the position of Mr Bamber is "posed."  Only a strong person could have positioned him in such a bizarre manner.

Incidentally if anyone still has one of these you can get up to £80 on eBay for them.  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Retro-vintage-60s-blue-Caddymatic-tea-dispenser-w-box-/170991726129?pt=UK_Collectables_Vintage_RL&hash=item27cfe6ae31

You can see how rubbish they were from the photo.  The plastic body used to decompose and the nylon button always broke.  You can see the shadow on the Bamber photo.  Theirs was not broken which would have been unusual.

Oh well back to work.

[puglove]

One further thing that supports Shona is:  Has anyone looked at the device fitted to the AGA surround immediately above where Mr Bamber's head would be if he was sitting upright?  I will not prompt anyone but I have only ever seen one once before.  They are quite unusual.

See the general photo:  I am not going to post the "body" photo again as I cannot bear to do this.

It is the white and black cylindrical device.

It's a dry tea dispenser Outlook.  Made of plastic.  My mum used to have one at home too.

Yes.  They were once very popular in this country, they started in the 1960s and disappeared in the 1980s.  They are now very valuable because so few survived as they were very fragile and broke easy.  A house I stayed in had one and the button was broken.  So we had to press it with the handle of a teaspoon.

What surprises me is that if Mr Bamber was at anytime sitting upright or being attacked in this location then it would have broken.  They are very brittle and just slip on and off the wall fitting.  So I feel the position of Mr Bamber is "posed."  Only a strong person could have positioned him in such a bizarre manner.

Incidentally if anyone still has one of these you can get up to £80 on eBay for them.  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Retro-vintage-60s-blue-Caddymatic-tea-dispenser-w-box-/170991726129?pt=UK_Collectables_Vintage_RL&hash=item27cfe6ae31

You can see how rubbish they were from the photo.  The plastic body used to decompose and the nylon button always broke.  You can see the shadow on the Bamber photo.  Theirs was not broken which would have been unusual.

Oh well back to work.

You're right, Outlook, those things WERE rubbish. They always leaked, and you only had to look at them to make them fall off the wall. So it's suprising to see that one still intact and in place.

[Outlook]

I bet JB is kicking himself.  Another nice little antique that could have been sold off.  All you have to do is wait 27 years and yesterdays junk becomes todays "Fortune in the Attic."   

[Myster]

Uwot m8??!!

I'm not getting you, Myster. I always presumed that Ralph died sitting in the chair, his body was knocked to the floor when police forced the door, and they picked him up and perched him, placing his head in the scuttle to collect the blood.

I need to watch The Big Bang. I'm sorry if I'm annoying you!

Nevill might not have been sitting in the chair at all when the TFU broke in, unless there is definitely a written statement saying he was.

If he was standing when assaulted, his pyjama pants (which were found around his lower legs) could have dropped down (either because the waist elastic was a loose fit or the tie cord had come undone) so it's possible that he was tripped up by them and overbalanced. If your pants are half down your leg then it reduces your ability to move about easily, even without having any injuries to slow you up.
Under a rain of blows from a rifle barrel or butt, with a fractured left arm, a bruised right arm from trying to defend oneself, and a badly shattered jaw it would have been difficult to concentrate on keeping upright, IMO.

If he didn't then fall onto the overturned chair by himself, he might have been deliberately pushed down onto it by Bamber, making the final four head shots easier to place.

[puglove]

Uwot m8??!!

I'm not getting you, Myster. I always presumed that Ralph died sitting in the chair, his body was knocked to the floor when police forced the door, and they picked him up and perched him, placing his head in the scuttle to collect the blood.

I need to watch The Big Bang. I'm sorry if I'm annoying you!

Nevill might not have been sitting in the chair at all when the TFU broke in, unless there is definitely a written statement saying he was.

If he was standing when assaulted, his pyjama pants (which were found around his lower legs) could have dropped down (either because the waist elastic was a loose fit or the tie cord had come undone) so it's possible that he was tripped up by them and overbalanced. If your pants are half down your leg then it reduces your ability to move about easily, even without having any injuries to slow you up.
Under a rain of blows from a rifle barrel or butt, with a fractured left arm, a bruised right arm from trying to defend oneself, and a badly shattered jaw it would have been difficult to concentrate on keeping upright, IMO.

If he didn't then fall onto the overturned chair by himself, he might have been deliberately pushed down onto it by Bamber, making the final four head shots easier to place.

Standing for the assault (hence the light getting broken) and sitting for the head shots.

What did the police see when they looked through the window? They at first thought that Ralph was a female.

And yes, Myster, the OVERTURNED chair! Precarious to balance on.

[Matthew Wyse]

Uwot m8??!!

I'm not getting you, Myster. I always presumed that Ralph died sitting in the chair, his body was knocked to the floor when police forced the door, and they picked him up and perched him, placing his head in the scuttle to collect the blood.

I need to watch The Big Bang. I'm sorry if I'm annoying you!

Nevill might not have been sitting in the chair at all when the TFU broke in, unless there is definitely a written statement saying he was.

If he was standing when assaulted, his pyjama pants (which were found around his lower legs) could have dropped down (either because the waist elastic was a loose fit or the tie cord had come undone) so it's possible that he was tripped up by them and overbalanced. If your pants are half down your leg then it reduces your ability to move about easily, even without having any injuries to slow you up.
Under a rain of blows from a rifle barrel or butt, with a fractured left arm, a bruised right arm from trying to defend oneself, and a badly shattered jaw it would have been difficult to concentrate on keeping upright, IMO.

If he didn't then fall onto the overturned chair by himself, he might have been deliberately pushed down onto it by Bamber, making the final four head shots easier to place.

Standing for the assault (hence the light getting broken) and sitting for the head shots.

What did the police see when they looked through the window? They at first thought that Ralph was a female.

And yes, Myster, the OVERTURNED chair! Precarious to balance on.

I have been trying to get my head around all of this but without much success.   My own view on this is that Nevill was found where he fell and wasn't moved becuase to do so would have left the killer covered in blood and he couldn'd afford that.   He might have been seen as he sleaked of home or something.

[John]

I have had a look at the marks on Nevill's arms and back again and some of them look to be similar which can only mean that they were made in the same way by the same weapon.

Anyone else have a view on this?

[Matthew Wyse]

I have had a look at the marks on Nevill's arms and back again and some of them look to be similar which can only mean that they were made in the same way by the same weapon.

Anyone else have a view on this?

They certainly look similar hmm   >@@(*&)     Do you think they were made by the end of the rifle barrel minus the silencer?   Possible being used to poke or jab?

[John]

I have had a look at the marks on Nevill's arms and back again and some of them look to be similar which can only mean that they were made in the same way by the same weapon.

Anyone else have a view on this?

They certainly look similar hmm   >@@(*&)     Do you think they were made by the end of the rifle barrel minus the silencer?   Possible being used to poke or jab?

They certainly appear to be defensive wounds of some sort.  Just trying to work out what could have made them?

[Myster]

I have had a look at the marks on Nevill's arms and back again and some of them look to be similar which can only mean that they were made in the same way by the same weapon.

Anyone else have a view on this?

In the Vanezis report the back wounds are listed as 'three distinct burn marks'... so are you suggesting that they could have been caused solely by impact from the barrel and possibly the protruding end sight or rear sight assembly?

Do you not think as I do, that all three wounds look different to each other? At a pinch you could say that the top one might have been caused by the threaded rifle end held at 90 degrees to the skin (possibly by burning), because it's of a similar diameter and the centre part looks hollow like the open central bore. The other two look very different.. but I'm clueless about those at the mo'.

All three back wounds though look 'cleaner' and more clearly defined than the arm marks which show additional bruising from the rifle's barrel.

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Two combined burn mark stills from the ITV documentary rotated by 180 degrees so that the the largest top wound is at the head/neck end.


Arm wounds.

[John]

Yes, I do agree, the burn marks on Nevill's back do differ in that they have a clean boundary whereas there is a lot of skin scaving in the arm marks.   This one on the inner arm however is different from the rest but identical to the back marks.  It appears to be a gouge rather than a scave.



Grazing to Nevill's forearm.

[Myster]

Is that a photo of Nevill's left upper arm or forearm because wound 8 was a bullet entrance wound situated 4" above the left elbow; in other words is the lower part in the photo the elbow joint?

[John]

Is that a photo of Nevill's left upper arm or forearm because wound 8 was a bullet entrance wound situated 4" above the left elbow; in other words is the lower part in the photo the elbow joint?

Yes, you're right, this is the bullet entry wound on Nevill's left arm. (forgot about that one)   

[Myster]

Yes, you're right, this is the bullet entry wound on Nevill's left arm. (forgot about that one)   

How come you're always saying I'm right, John ?.... I'm really just as clueless as anyone  else ! 

The bullet entrance wound to the left arm I mentioned before is really an oblique grazing wound (whatever that means).... so I was wrong there. The radiograph showed fragments of the bullet in the left lower chest but these could not by found by Vanezis.

Is that definitely the left upper arm or forearm, because I can't decide if it's the wrist or elbow joint in the lower part of the photo? Or is it the right upper arm or forearm where the defensive wounds and bruises were found?

[John]

I would say it is the forearm because of the 3" measurement shown.  The upper part of the forearm is shown at being over 4".

Can't say which arm though...the pathology Report isn't terribly clear on what this wound is ?  8-)(--)