Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.

[jassi]

Both can occur if someone else opened the window and raised the shutters.

But who would do that?

Burglarman seems as no-existent as abductorman

[Robittybob1]

If a burglar opened the shutter and windows from outside, causing Madeleine to wake and flee she wouldn't have fled via the front door because that was heading towards the perpetrators. If she fled out of the patio doors then her mother was wrong; she did close the gates behind herself. Assuming that Kate was correct when she said both gates were closed when she arrived. So why did the children's bedroom door move between 8.30 and 9.05? Why did it move again between 9.05 and 9.30?

What is slowly dawning on me is that there could be period between Madeleine being woken and when she leaves.
I'm tending to think like this now:
1.  The burglar opens the window and raised shutter prior to Matt's visit.
2.  The noise woke Madeleine who then went and hid in the apartment.
3. She hears Matt coming in the apartment and later leaving via the patio door. (Since Madeleine doesn't really know Matt she treats him as an "intruder".)
4.  Since the "intruder" left by the patio door, Madeleine plucks up courage to leave by the front door.


It is possible that Madeleine had a tendency to hide if she was frightened and it was the reason Kate did her search in the apartment once she noted Madeleine not in her bed.  What I am saying above is closely related to what Kate felt initially.

[Robittybob1]

But who would do that?

Burglarman seems as no-existent as abductorman

Pamela Fenn reported a prior burglary.  Burglars are quite common.

[jassi]

Pamela Fenn reported a prior burglary.  Burglars are quite common.

Indeed, but no evidence is forthcoming to show that any burglars were out and about that night

[Angelo222]

Indeed, but no evidence is forthcoming to show that any burglars were out and about that night

The absence of any other prints or even smudged glove marks on the shutter/window would appear to preclude the existence of any burglar and the PJ knew that very early on. Little wonder therefore that taken with everything else they found that the parents came under intense scrutiny.

[Alice Purjorick]

"kilogrammes per m²" is a measurement of pressure.  Are you using the right units?  Shouldn't you be looking at units of work?

I beg to differ.
kg/m² = mass per unit area.
kg is a unit of mass.
pressure = force per unit area NOT mass per unit area.
Newton is the unit of force (N).
Pascal is the unit of pressure = N/m²
The unit of work is the Joule.
But back to the plot I dispute the shutters were heavy.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I beg to differ.
kg/m² = mass per unit area.
kg is a unit of mass.
pressure = force per unit area NOT mass per unit area.
Newton is the unit of force (N).
Pascal is the unit of pressure = N/m²
The unit of work is the Joule.
But back to the plot I dispute the shutters were heavy.

And of course your opinion of their heaviness of the shutters (which you have never lifted) and whether or not somebody else’s little child could lift them is equally as valid as the parents of the child who actually experienced the weight of the shutters themselves, isn’t it?

[Alice Purjorick]

And of course your opinion of their heaviness of the shutters (which you have never lifted) and whether or not somebody else’s little child could lift them is equally as valid as the parents of the child who actually experienced the weight of the shutters themselves, isn’t it?

Oh dear !
Do you actually ever read anything?
I never said anything about a child lifting the shutters. Anyway from the inside the shutter had a CDA to raise it.
I said I dispute they are "heavy" as stated by Tracy Wotzerface in Ye Olde Currant Bun.

I have never lifted a 6 metre length of 200 x 200 x 100# U.C either but I know how heavy it is.
It was a fatuous comment on your part if you think about it.
 

[Vertigo Swirl]

Oh dear !
Do you actually ever read anything?
I never said anything about a child lifting the shutters. Anyway from the inside the shutter had a CDA to raise it.
I said I dispute they are "heavy" as stated by Tracy Wotzerface in Ye Olde Currant Bun.

I have never lifted a 6 metre length of 200 x 200 x 100# U.C either but I know how heavy it is.
It was a fatuous comment on your part if you think about it.

So they are not heavy according to you (even though you’ve never been near them) which means what then a propos the discussion about woke and wandered?

[Robittybob1]

The absence of any other prints or even smudged glove marks on the shutter/window would appear to preclude the existence of any burglar and the PJ knew that very early on. Little wonder therefore that taken with everything else they found that the parents came under intense scrutiny.

What I can't understand is the both Gerry and Dianne also lift the shutters and yet their prints aren't located on the shutters either.
The fact that Dianne and Gerry are known to have handled the shutters from the outside could well be the reason there are no finger prints on the shutters.

[G-Unit]

I found this bit interesting;

The McCann source said: “Whatever the Met Police are doing, which the public is not privy to, is as much as to rule scenarios and suspects out as to rule them in."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7828725/madeleine-mccann-parents-slam-claims-she-wasnt-kidnapped/

From the McCann's point of view they have provided the evidence which rules out woke and wandered. No wonder they find it insulting to suggest that Op Grange are re-examining that scenario. That suggests their evidence isn't convincing.

[Robittybob1]

I found this bit interesting;

The McCann source said: “Whatever the Met Police are doing, which the public is not privy to, is as much as to rule scenarios and suspects out as to rule them in."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7828725/madeleine-mccann-parents-slam-claims-she-wasnt-kidnapped/

From the McCann's point of view they have provided the evidence which rules out woke and wandered. No wonder they find it insulting to suggest that Op Grange are re-examining that scenario. That suggests their evidence isn't convincing.

I find that insulting for if Madeleine left via the front door it would not be her who opened the shutters.  Why do they say Madeleine would have had to open the shutters?

[Mr Gray]

I found this bit interesting;

The McCann source said: “Whatever the Met Police are doing, which the public is not privy to, is as much as to rule scenarios and suspects out as to rule them in."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7828725/madeleine-mccann-parents-slam-claims-she-wasnt-kidnapped/

From the McCann's point of view they have provided the evidence which rules out woke and wandered. No wonder they find it insulting to suggest that Op Grange are re-examining that scenario. That suggests their evidence isn't convincing.

So are you assuming this whole story is true

[Robittybob1]

So are you assuming this whole story is true

Yes.

[Mr Gray]

Yes.

Then it's merely an assumption