Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.

[Sunny]

I typed "Baby sitter caught on camera hitting baby" into my search engine and came up with numerous occasions when this had occurred.

Having watched the first one ... I'm sure I will be forgiven for being unable to watch any more ... nor to provide a link.

There is no guarantee of safety for children either if a child is watched on a one to one basis ... or has been entrusted to the care of nurseries.  As proved by recent cases of abuse of children by nursery workers.

So are you now implying that the McCanns may have had reason to worry that someone might harm one of their children if on a one to one basis.

And do you also think that leaving the children alone in a dark apartment was preferable to leaving them with one of these nannies too?

Is this really what you think Brietta?

[jassi]

I typed "Baby sitter caught on camera hitting baby" into my search engine and came up with numerous occasions when this had occurred.

Having watched the first one ... I'm sure I will be forgiven for being unable to watch any more ... nor to provide a link.

There is no guarantee of safety for children either if a child is watched on a one to one basis ... or has been entrusted to the care of nurseries.  As proved by recent cases of abuse of children by nursery workers.

So are you suggesting that children might as well be left on their own, or that the parents should actually  take responsibility ?

[Erngath]

That is a nasty assumption..

It is indeed.
Different parenting choices do not mean that children come second.
I've seen parents taking very small children out on holiday and keeping those children in a noisy environment and the children become grumpy and overly tired.
Would they be accused of putting their children second in their desire to continue.their night out?

Possibly there is no easy answer to how one can accommodate the desire to have an evening out on holiday without your usual baby sitting arrangements in force when you have very small children.
I certainly wouldn't have allowed anyone whom I had only met in a children's holiday club to look after my children in the privacy of an apartment, nor would I have left them, not would I have taken them out after bedtime to a restaurant.
Guess that's why we didn't go abroad til our youngest was nine.


Couldn't afford it either.

[Brietta]

So are you suggesting that children might as well be left on their own, or that the parents should actually  take responsibility ?

I am suggesting nothing.  I was making a reply to a post.  It is called debate ... or discussion which is what a discussion forum is all about.  Not putting words into another poster's mouth because you are unable to cope with reality as recorded on numerous occasions and cases.

Some parents have placed their trust and the welfare of their children into the hands of strangers and had it savagely abused.

[Vertigo Swirl]

A valid assumption. Why else did they leave the children?

I can fully understand the reasons why a parent in that situation might leave the children and it is not simply a matter of selfishness.  We have had experience of being on holiday with a baby, arriving in a new town early evening, hungry and tired (us and the baby).  Having fed the baby we took ourselves off to a restaurant with fed, but grouchy tired baby in tow, in car seat.  Baby wanted to sleep but the environment was not conducive and baby screamed the restaurant down.  Baby would have been happier in cot in B & B, so we left restaurant before ordering and returned there.  We had no option but to sit in the dark with baby in cot, munching on a hastily grabbed sandwich en route.  Had there been a restaurant in the B & B we almost certainly would have left baby happily sleeping upstairs while we dined downstairs, no child monitor but checking  between courses.  This would not have been entirely selfish but we would have been doing what we felt was best for baby, and the other diners as well.  So now tell me what bloody awful and selfish parents we must be.

[faithlilly]

I can fully understand the reasons why a parent in that situation might leave the children and it is not simply a matter of selfishness.  We have had experience of being on holiday with a baby, arriving in a new town early evening, hungry and tired (us and the baby).  Having fed the baby we took ourselves off to a restaurant with fed, but grouchy tired baby in tow, in car seat.  Baby wanted to sleep but the environment was not conducive and baby screamed the restaurant down.  Baby would have been happier in cot in B & B, so we left restaurant before ordering and returned there.  We had no option but to sit in the dark with baby in cot, munching on a hastily grabbed sandwich en route.  Had there been a restaurant in the B & B we almost certainly would have left baby happily sleeping upstairs while we dined downstairs, no child monitor but checking  between courses.  This would not have been entirely selfish but we would have been doing what we felt was best for baby, and the other diners as well.  So now tell me what bloody awful and selfish parents we must be.

Maybe not awful, irresponsible certainly.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Maybe not awful, irresponsible certainly.

IYO.

[faithlilly]

IYO.

Absolutely.

Supporters seem to believe that just because they’ve left or would leave their young children alone that that makes it okay. It doesn’t.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Absolutely.

Supporters seem to believe that just because they’ve left or would leave their young children alone that that makes it okay. It doesn’t.

Maybe not in you opinion,  but nor does it make us bad people or bad parents, or selfish b........s whose primary goal in life is to get pissed with our mates.  .

[Mr Gray]

Absolutely.

Supporters seem to believe that just because they’ve left or would leave their young children alone that that makes it okay. It doesn’t.

So when has any suporter said it's OK to leave children alone


Never as far ad I have, seen

[faithlilly]

Maybe not in you opinion,  but nor does it make us bad people or bad parents, or selfish b......s whose primary goal in life is to get pissed with our mates.  .

But unfortunately you have that in common with people who do.

[Vertigo Swirl]

But unfortunately you have that in common with people who do.

Sorry, what do I have in common with selfish b........s whose primary goal is to get pissed with their mates?

[G-Unit]

So the waiting staff at the Tapas restaurant imagined all the comings and goings of the parents that night did they?  As for the rest of your post, it IS a matter of opinion, as I'm sure you'd be the first to criticise the McCanns for leaving their kids in the care of strangers "every second" they could as some form of neglect.

Who do you mean by 'parents'? The staff saw very little.

Jeronimo; Noticed no-one leaving the table
Svetlana; One man left for 30 minutes, then a woman, then all of them except an elderly lady.
.Joaquim; Two men left. One for 15 minutes and one for 30 minutes. They were both tall and skinny.
Ricardo; One tall man left for 15 minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm

[Vertigo Swirl]

Who do you mean by 'parents'? The staff saw very little.

Jeronimo; Noticed no-one leaving the table
Svetlana; One man left for 30 minutes, then a woman, then all of them except an elderly lady.
.Joaquim; Two men left. One for 15 minutes and one for 30 minutes. They were both tall and skinny.
Ricardo; One tall man left for 15 minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm

That’s at least three people in the space of 90 minutes.  3s into 90 is... 30.  If they weren’t checking on children whT were they doing for “15” and “30” minutes?

[G-Unit]

That’s at least three people in the space of 90 minutes.  3s into 90 is... 30.  If they weren’t checking on children whT were they doing for “15” and “30” minutes?

The accounts of the staff don't come anywhere near matching the accounts of the group, however.