Author Topic: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.  (Read 220698 times)

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Offline sadie

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #735 on: December 09, 2018, 01:27:33 AM »
Nope I’m afraid it’s simply called making things up.....IMO.

Many moons ago i posted a serious study and American paper on the best modern methods of investigation, especially for cases which were complex and 'stuck. 
I can no longer find it on the internet and in all probability it has been wiped from the forum

This long paper, discussed the best methods of searching and the best people to do it.  In 'stuck' cases, where all the known facts and leads had been gone over repeatedly, without producing results,   It recommended LATRAL THINKING with strict adherence to basic KNOWN FACTS

It also said that Police officers were not trained to do such work; their skills base was different.

This very serious Police paper recommended that Design Engineers had the necessary skills and approach to successfully problem solve certain cases.



And, my first career was as a DESIGN ENGINEER.




You were on Forum at the time, but I doubt you bothered to read it.


Sorry, my dear, but you are out of date with modern thinking on solving the very difficult cases.


From this it seems strictly controlled Creative Investigation is the way forward.



This is all fact so no need to remove bits or splash IMO's all over it

Offline Brietta

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #736 on: December 09, 2018, 01:35:38 AM »
From the Expresso interview in which Pedro do Carmo emphatically reiterated that ... "Maddie's parents are not suspects. Period" ... the following question asked of him makes it clear that the 'woke and wandered' hypothesis was not one which was ever considered seriously by the Judicial Police.

Q:  Until the case was closed in 2008, there were three lines of investigation by the Judiciary Police on the case.
  • Hypothesis 1: parents accidentally killed their daughter and then hid the body.
  • Hypothesis 2: Maddie was abducted by a group linked to trafficking in minors and sold for the purpose of sexual exploitation.
  • Hypothesis 3: The child was killed after a rapture that went wrong.
Would the reopening of the case in 2013 open up more lines of investigation than the three that were followed at that time?

A:  About the investigation I can not speak.
I can say that the PJ remains convinced that there are elements that can be worked and that can lead to some results. If it is not possible to achieve this result, at least get some answers to the many questions that the case raises. In the limit, get to a point where the PJ concludes that there is nothing more to do to answer these questions.

https://expresso.sapo.pt/sociedade/2017-05-03-Pedro-do-Carmo-Os-pais-de-Maddie-nao-sao-suspeitos.-Ponto-1#gs.WuheF_k

If by some chance SY and the PJ have evidence that the answer lies with 'woke and wandered' ... why hasn't the case been wrapped up and the solution presented in the public domain?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #737 on: December 09, 2018, 03:51:01 AM »
The author who has all the evidence
Still no argument put forward - we have only got the conclusion at present.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #738 on: December 09, 2018, 04:03:57 AM »
... snip ...
If by some chance SY and the PJ have evidence that the answer lies with 'woke and wandered' ... why hasn't the case been wrapped up and the solution presented in the public domain?

The new theory being investigated isn't just woke and wandered but  woke and wandered then abducted.

If it was just  woke and wandered Madeleine would have been found wandering the streets that night IMO.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Sunny

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #739 on: December 09, 2018, 08:05:47 AM »
Many moons ago i posted a serious study and American paper on the best modern methods of investigation, especially for cases which were complex and 'stuck. 
I can no longer find it on the internet and in all probability it has been wiped from the forum

This long paper, discussed the best methods of searching and the best people to do it.  In 'stuck' cases, where all the known facts and leads had been gone over repeatedly, without producing results,   It recommended LATRAL THINKING with strict adherence to basic KNOWN FACTS

It also said that Police officers were not trained to do such work; their skills base was different.

This very serious Police paper recommended that Design Engineers had the necessary skills and approach to successfully problem solve certain cases.



And, my first career was as a DESIGN ENGINEER.




You were on Forum at the time, but I doubt you bothered to read it.


Sorry, my dear, but you are out of date with modern thinking on solving the very difficult cases.


From this it seems strictly controlled Creative Investigation is the way forward.



This is all fact so no need to remove bits or splash IMO's all over it

I am intrigued Sadie.  Did you do the designing from scratch or draw up other's ideas?

Well done you if the latter.
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Offline barrier

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #740 on: December 09, 2018, 08:36:21 AM »
The new theory being investigated isn't just woke and wandered but  woke and wandered then abducted.

If it was just  woke and wandered Madeleine would have been found wandering the streets that night IMO.

What of this from the opening post.

Quote
It has also been suggested a panicking drink-driver might have run her over and sped off with her body before hiding it in the countryside.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline barrier

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #741 on: December 09, 2018, 09:11:03 AM »
Sorry to disagree, but I am convinced that Madeleine was alive in 2012 .... and that she almost certainly still is.


Yet no one in a authority is able to confirm it.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline barrier

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #742 on: December 09, 2018, 09:12:07 AM »
No, I’m asking you what sort of evidence would you expect the police to have uncovered since the archiving report which turned the least likely scenario of woke and wandered into the most likely scenario?


I'm not party to anything the PJ are into,OG don't count they have no jurisdiction over the case.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #743 on: December 09, 2018, 09:12:30 AM »
What of this from the opening post.
What of it?  It still involves a criminal act and body occultation, only neither perpetrated by the McCanns.  It also makes a nonsense of Martin Grime’s dogs, and the entire “parents dunnit” movement.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #744 on: December 09, 2018, 09:13:16 AM »

I'm not party to anything the PJ are into,OG don't count they have no jurisdiction over the case.
That wasn’t the question I asked.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline barrier

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #745 on: December 09, 2018, 09:31:20 AM »
Don't like an answer don't ask a question.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #746 on: December 09, 2018, 09:31:56 AM »
What of this from the opening post.  "It has also been suggested a panicking drink-driver might have run her over and sped off with her body before hiding it in the countryside."

If that was the case we are wasting our time here.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline barrier

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #747 on: December 09, 2018, 09:33:45 AM »
What of it?  It still involves a criminal act and body occultation, only neither perpetrated by the McCanns.  It also makes a nonsense of Martin Grime’s dogs, and the entire “parents dunnit” movement.

I don't recall mentioning it did,but hey oh.

What of this from the opening post.


Quote
It has also been suggested a panicking drink-driver might have run her over and sped off with her body before hiding it in the countryside.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline barrier

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #748 on: December 09, 2018, 09:34:21 AM »
If that was the case we are wasting our time here.

How long as it taken you to realise that?

Just in case some numb nut brings in what are you doing here then,see my signature.


Neddie Seagoon : [discovering Eccles in the coal cellar]  What are you doing here?
Eccles : Everybody's gotta be somewhere...
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #749 on: December 09, 2018, 09:34:47 AM »
Anything that I say IMO for is opinion, same as stuff that you also add IMO to.


However, the suffix IMO means, in my case, that I have studied the befores and afters and worked out a sensible scenario that fits and provides a sensible reason why certain things happened.  They call it "LOGIC" and "LATERAL THINKING".  It is Creative Investigation based upon logic

Unlike others, I do not allow myself to be RESTRICTED by what has accidentally been left out of statements; either by muddled thinking, memory loss or simply not thinking it important enough to record.

Tons will have been left out, but because it has not been recorded in statements, it doesn't necessarily mean that certain things did not happen.


In Gerrys case it is almost without doubt a muddled and memory loss situation.


No other sensible reason that I can think of why he should get it wrong.  No way that I can think of that his misremembering  could have benefitted him.

Just because you can't see how Gerry McCann might have benefitted from telling a different story you have assumed he was stressed so got muddled and misremembered.

If Gerry did tell a different story deliberately, however, your assumption is wrong.

The group very helpfully wrote a timeline for the PJ, which was handed over on 10th May. It was;

"collectively prepared by the nine people of the group in question" and it said;

"2115: JT leaves table, and sees GM talking with fellow resident ("Jez" Wilkins) outside the patio gate of 5A. The two were standing just up the hill from the gate towards Rua A. da Silva Road. She did not speak to GM as she passed."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Gerry then told the PJ on the very same day;

He crossed the road in JEZ's direction who would come up on the right-hand side.............Because he had been specifically asked, he relates that during this period of time he did not see with certainty JANE pass that location, although it is clear that he was speaking when in front of JEZ, his back to the other pathway on which his apartment is situated. He relates also that JEZ never said to him that he had seen any person given that he was in front.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

So preparing the typed timeline and giving it to the PJ was a complete waste of time. Instead of helping them it was confusing. Gerry clearly didn't agree with what it said, but why he allowed it to be handed over uncorrected we don't know.
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