Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.

[sadie]

I mean what I say, and what Amaral and the PJ claim-  there was no moving door which gave rise to the notion that it slammed and the curtains whooshed and MBM was abducted by an intruder who entered through an alledged, by Kate, open window- never happened none of it.

The unlocked door  to enable MBM to go fetch her parents, and leaving the children alone every night does not cover a very good plot now does it? No wonder Kate forgave her 3 year old daughters abductor from her bed that night- to do terrible things to her.It is so very easy to forgive someone who doesn't even exist...

"I mean what I say, and what Amaral and the PJ claim-  there was no moving door which gave rise to the notion that it slammed and the curtains whooshed and MBM was abducted by an intruder who entered through an alledged, by Kate, open window- never happened none of it."

Oh really?   So you were there then and witnessed it all?
So Matt, Gerry and Kate all lied, did they?

Can you prove that or are you overusing your imagination ?   Are you commiting libel?

Cite please.

[Vertigo Swirl]

"I mean what I say, and what Amaral and the PJ claim-  there was no moving door which gave rise to the notion that it slammed and the curtains whooshed and MBM was abducted by an intruder who entered through an alledged, by Kate, open window- never happened none of it."

Oh really?   So you were there then and witnessed it all?
So Matt, Gerry and Kate all lied, did they?

Can you prove that or are you overusing your imagination ?   Are you commiting libel?

Cite please.

Amazing that this opinion as fact (libellous too) has been allowed to stand. 

[Robittybob1]

  snip ....

Do you have a cite that Kate alleged an intruder entered via the window.  My understanding is that she was of the opinion that Madeleine would have been unable to open the window and shutter to exit by herself ... similarly she would not have closed doors and gates behind her ... making the 'woke and wandered' theory highly unlikely if not an impossibility.

But not impossible if someone else tidied up after Madeleine.  In my theory it is possible someone else closed whatever gates and or doors Madeleine had left open.

[Robittybob1]

Amazing that this opinion as fact (libellous too) has been allowed to stand.

It is basically what GA proposed. 

[Mr Gray]

It is basically what GA proposed.

Which is considered libellous on this forum

[Brietta]

But not impossible if someone else tidied up after Madeleine.  In my theory it is possible someone else closed whatever gates and or doors Madeleine had left open.

I think the only person who would have gone to the bother of doing that would be the person who removed her from the premises ... ie her abductor ... and why on earth would an abductor go to that bother if she was already out on the street?

I think the persona of Madeleine has been lost within the speculative nonsense of all the conspiracy theories which have abounded and contaminated real evidence throughout the whole of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

There was no greater conspiracy theorist than Amaral from first to last.

According to him Madeleine's parents were 'protected'? ... security services involvement? ... blue bags and pink blankets? ... lost fridges? ... bereaved parents skulking around Luz keeping the frozen remains of their child one step ahead of Portugal's finest while the world's press stalked their every move?
I could go on ... but I think that is enough balderdash to be going on with ... and all designed to take the easy way out of 'solving' Madeleine's case by using the precedent of implicating her mother.

And why not?
It had all worked out perfectly before for the same team of detectives. Even down to writing books to make sure the general public got the message.

[Robittybob1]

I think the only person who would have gone to the bother of doing that would be the person who removed her from the premises ... ie her abductor ... and why on earth would an abductor go to that bother if she was already out on the street?

... snip ...

Thanks  for considering my theory.  What about just another person who sees her leaving or at least seeing the door/gate left open and concerned for the other two infants in the apartment.  - They could close the door/gates so that the other two don't escape as well.
Not an actual abductor.

(There were reports of a concerned couple who attended the kids the night prior to her going missing.  Could the same couple close the doors/gates on the Thursday night?)

[Eleanor]

I think the only person who would have gone to the bother of doing that would be the person who removed her from the premises ... ie her abductor ... and why on earth would an abductor go to that bother if she was already out on the street?

I think the persona of Madeleine has been lost within the speculative nonsense of all the conspiracy theories which have abounded and contaminated real evidence throughout the whole of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

There was no greater conspiracy theorist than Amaral from first to last.

According to him Madeleine's parents were 'protected'? ... security services involvement? ... blue bags and pink blankets? ... lost fridges? ... bereaved parents skulking around Luz keeping the frozen remains of their child one step ahead of Portugal's finest while the world's press stalked their every move?
I could go on ... but I think that is enough balderdash to be going on with ... and all designed to take the easy way out of 'solving' Madeleine's case by using the precedent of implicating her mother.

And why not?
It had all worked out perfectly before for the same team of detectives. Even down to writing books to make sure the general public got the message.

I could go much further than that, but I won't, for obvious reasons.

[Brietta]

Thanks  for considering my theory.  What about just another person who sees her leaving or at least seeing the door/gate left open and concerned for the other two infants in the apartment.  - They could close the door/gates so that the other two don't escape as well.
Not an actual abductor.

I walk through my town during the hours of darkness on a very regular basis and if I encountered a lone child wandering around dressed in pyjamas I would have done none of those things you suggest.
How would I have known there were other children in the apartment and why would I allow a vulnerable little girl to continue walking about on her own?

There was no mystery to the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance until it was made into one and inventing scenarios to fit a preconceived mind set just doesn't work.

Did the Judicial Police mention 'woke and wandered' in the files and how they had ruled the likelihood in or out apart from checking excavated road workings?

[Sunny]

I don't see an abductor closing the gate after taking Madeleine either. It would be difficult whilst holding a child n both arms and also pointless IMO.

[Robittybob1]

I walk through my town during the hours of darkness on a very regular basis and if I encountered a lone child wandering around dressed in pyjamas I would have done none of those things you suggest.
How would I have known there were other children in the apartment and why would I allow a vulnerable little girl to continue walking about on her own?

There was no mystery to the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance until it was made into one and inventing scenarios to fit a preconceived mind set just doesn't work.

Did the Judicial Police mention 'woke and wandered' in the files and how they had ruled the likelihood in or out apart from checking excavated road workings?

What about if it was a family you knew, and you knew the parents were away at dinner and had left the children alone and you saw their front door open when it should be closed, would you close it?

Or would you leave it open so the toddlers could wander out onto the road?

Personally I take note of farm gates that are left open onto roadways.  That is similar to front doors in an urban situation.

[Robittybob1]

I don't see an abductor closing the gate after taking Madeleine either. It would be difficult whilst holding a child n both arms and also pointless IMO.

You've missed the issue in this thread and that is it is Madeleine who makes her own way out of the building (woke and wandered).  I made it clear in my theory the person who closes the doors/gates is not the abductor but a concerned citizen of some sort.

[Brietta]

What about if it was a family you knew, and you knew the parents were away at dinner and had left the children alone and you saw their front door open when it should be closed, would you close it?

Or would you leave it open so the toddlers could wander out onto the road?

Personally I take note of farm gates that are left open onto roadways.  That is similar to front doors in an urban situation.

The front door of the apartment wasn't open though was it?  Nor would a casual observer passing by be able to see if it was because of foliage and its recessed position.

I would never presume to enter anyone's property to close their front door under any other than prearranged circumstances, if I had any concerns at all I would deal with the situation accordingly either by summoning other neighbours or the police.

[Vertigo Swirl]

It is basically what GA proposed.

So let’s get this straight. I can state as fact that none of the things stated by Kate McCann actually happened as she said, is that correct?

[Robittybob1]

The front door of the apartment wasn't open though was it?  Nor would a casual observer passing by be able to see if it was because of foliage and its recessed position.

I would never presume to enter anyone's property to close their front door under any other than prearranged circumstances, if I had any concerns at all I would deal with the situation accordingly either by summoning other neighbours or the police.

Fair enough.  In your situation you would take some other action to prevent the little ones wandering out onto the road.
It could get tricky if you had an appointment to keep or a flight to catch.

As I said I look out for open farm gates.  I have yet to actually close one,  usually I find there is a reason it is open, and it seems safe enough so I move on.

When you ask "The front door of the apartment wasn't open though was it?" that has been the prime issue in my McCann study for the last year or so.  I believe the evidence gathered so far points to a situation of anyone without a key cannot fully close the front door if they leave via the front door.

Therefore if Madeleine woke and wandered and left by the front door that door would be open.  Remember Kate and David never found it open at the time of  the alarm being raised.

But I contend this does not prove it had not being closed by someone else between the time Madeleine left (in this scenario) and when Kate found her missing (and IMO there was sufficient time available for someone to do this).
Someone who knew the front door could be closed from the inside and that one could leave by the patio door and close the child proof gates on the stairs (so the toddlers are then safe, as the prime concern is for the safety of the toddlers).

But if my theory is correct whoever did this would be left in an awkward situation of not knowing where Madeleine went to, as if she left by the front door and the other person leaves via the patio door they have two options as to which way to go to find her, like at the gate onto the footpath does one turn left or right.

It is better to lose one child than all three.