Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.

[Brietta]

In my opinion it's obfuscation to repeatedly insinuate that the Attorney General wrote the archiving report.

I think you are putting words in my mouth yet again. 

You made the claim the Attorney General "wrote". 

Please indicate in which post you think I have made such a claim ... I don't think you will be able to ... but the proof of the pudding etc.  Let's see it.  Thank you

[Angelo222]

Woke and Wandered is the topic.

[Eleanor]

Woke and Wandered is the topic.

Gosh.  So it is.

[Angelo222]

That takes you right back  to the old Jim Gamble paradox. How can someone with an operational insight of the case plausibly believe the child may have woke and wandered and exclude a staged abduction at the same time? That's what he has done publicly but he must know Madeleine's prints weren't on the window. IMO given his insight of the case by admitting the possibility that the child may have wandered from an unlocked apartment, he has to either be directly or indirectly admitting the possibility that there is more to this than has ever been revealed.

What other PLAUSIBLE excuses could there be for the window and the shutter?
Now we take the giant leap into complete fantasy IMO.

There are several possibilities as to why the children's bedroom shutter was raised and the window was open, assuming they were of course because we only have Kate McCann's say-so that they were.  Given that only Kate McCann's fingerprints were found on the window I know what I believe.

[Vertigo Swirl]

There are several possibilities as to why the children's bedroom shutter was raised and the window was open, assuming they were of course because we only have Kate McCann's say-so that they were.  Given that only Kate McCann's fingerprints were found on the window I know what I believe.

But what you believe is quite implausible, IMO.

[G-Unit]

I think you are putting words in my mouth yet again. 

You made the claim the Attorney General "wrote". 

Please indicate in which post you think I have made such a claim ... I don't think you will be able to ... but the proof of the pudding etc.  Let's see it.  Thank you

snip/
" the ruling made by the Attorney General in the Archiving document "
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10478.msg531017#msg531017

[The General]

snip/
" the ruling made by the Attorney General in the Archiving document "
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10478.msg531017#msg531017

Yeh, I can feel a mysterious deletion coming up.

[Brietta]

snip/
" the ruling made by the Attorney General in the Archiving document "
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10478.msg531017#msg531017

You really think " the ruling made by the Attorney General in the Archiving document " equates to what you posted  "I don't know what the Attorney General said ... ??

What he did say was ...
Snip
"Police have completed their final report of the so-called 'Maddie case', which will be carefully analyzed," the Portuguese Attorney General said in a statement.
https://domtotal.com/noticia/13327/2008/07/polacia-portuguesa-conclui-relatario-sobre-caso-madeleine/

It appears that little or no credence was given to the 'woke and wandered' notion in the final report  or subsequently in the archiving document ...
Snip
As a remote hypothesis, the possibility of the minor leaving the apartment by her own means was explored – that would be highly unlikely physically – and after, because of an accident or by a third person intervention, she
would have disappeared.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PJ_Report_English_Translation.pdf

[Robittybob1]

On what basis would they think it highly unlikely physically, when in fact the front door wasn't deadlocked and could easily be opened from the inside.  I had a whole thread exploring this.
Combine this with the fact that the tracking dogs traced her on two occasions to the car park opposite the secondary reception it appears that is evidence that she  "because of an accident or by a third person intervention, she would have disappeared".

I am convinced "the Attorney General in the Archiving document" got it wrong.

[G-Unit]

You really think " the ruling made by the Attorney General in the Archiving document " equates to what you posted  "I don't know what the Attorney General said ... ??

What he did say was ...
Snip
"Police have completed their final report of the so-called 'Maddie case', which will be carefully analyzed," the Portuguese Attorney General said in a statement.
https://domtotal.com/noticia/13327/2008/07/polacia-portuguesa-conclui-relatario-sobre-caso-madeleine/

It appears that little or no credence was given to the 'woke and wandered' notion in the final report  or subsequently in the archiving document ...
Snip
As a remote hypothesis, the possibility of the minor leaving the apartment by her own means was explored – that would be highly unlikely physically – and after, because of an accident or by a third person intervention, she
would have disappeared.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PJ_Report_English_Translation.pdf

Thank you for replying, although I must admit I don't understand the relevance of the post. I'm still of the opinion that the Attorney General had no input into the Archiving document.

As to woke and wandered, perhaps the first investiigation's conclusions have been superceded by new thinking? As you have said, that was 12 years ago and I find it credible that the two new investigations may have moved on from previous theories.

[Robittybob1]

Thank you for replying, although I must admit I don't understand the relevance of the post. I'm still of the opinion that the Attorney General had no input into the Archiving document.

As to woke and wandered, perhaps the first investigation's conclusions have been superseded by new thinking? As you have said, that was 12 years ago and I find it credible that the two new investigations may have moved on from previous theories.

If he signed off the document, let's say he had some input.

"b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.

Article 277 number 3 of the Penal Process Code is to be fulfilled.

Under article 214 number 1 item a) of the Penal Process Code, the coercion measures that have been imposed on the arguidos are declared extinct.

Portimão, 21.07.08

The Republic's Prosecutor

(José de Magalhaes e Menezes)

The Joint General Prosecutor

(signature)

(Joao Melchior Gomes)"

Where does the Attorney General come into it?  There is the subtitle "Letter to the Attorney General regarding investigation details"  So it is notice to him rather than a notice by him.

[G-Unit]

If he signed off the document, let's say he had some input.

"b) The archiving of the Process concerning Arguidos Gerald Patrick McCann and Kate Marie Healy, because there are no indications of the practise of any crime under the dispositions of article 277 number 1 of the Penal Process Code.

Article 277 number 3 of the Penal Process Code is to be fulfilled.

Under article 214 number 1 item a) of the Penal Process Code, the coercion measures that have been imposed on the arguidos are declared extinct.

Portimão, 21.07.08

The Republic's Prosecutor

(José de Magalhaes e Menezes)

The Joint General Prosecutor

(signature)

(Joao Melchior Gomes)"

Where does the Attorney General come into it?  There is the subtitle "Letter to the Attorney General regarding investigation details"  So it is notice to him rather than a notice by him.

Looking at the timescales reveals that he merely notified the public of the prosecutor's decision. The archiving report is dated 21st July 2008, so presumeably that's when it was completed and passed on.

The Attorney General notified the public on 21st July 2008 that the case was being archived, so there was no time for him to have input.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2439530/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-and-Gerry-cleared-of-arguido-status-by-Portuguese-police.html

He may have worked with the prosecitors, but there's no evidence that he had any input imo.

[Brietta]

Thank you for replying, although I must admit I don't understand the relevance of the post. I'm still of the opinion that the Attorney General had no input into the Archiving document.

As to woke and wandered, perhaps the first investiigation's conclusions have been superceded by new thinking? As you have said, that was 12 years ago and I find it credible that the two new investigations may have moved on from previous theories.

When did Amaral settle on a 'woke and wandered' theory?

My opinion is that he was looking for a quick prosecution not so much to settle what happened to Madeleine but to deflect from his upcoming prosecution in a torture trial.

His first bite at the cherry was Murat.

When that didn't pan out he reverted to the tried and tested 'the parents dunnit' ... and that didn't pan out for him either.


It amazes me that you were not aware of the chain of command followed which ensured the input of the Portuguese Attorney General to the archiving process ... from police reports > to prosecutors > ultimately to the Attorney General who made the decision to archive until new evidence might be found ... particularly in such a high profile case such as Madeleine's ...
Snip
"In an order issued today ... the investigation into the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann has been halted because no evidence was discovered of any crime committed by the suspects," Attorney-General Fernando Pinto Monteiro's office said.

It said the investigation could be reopened "if new evidence emerges from any serious, pertinent and authoritative" source.
https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/madeleine-search-shelved-by-portuguese-police-1-1081355

As part of the legal process the archiving document was issued by the Attorney General's Office ... once he had considered the evidence presented by the police and prosecutors which he used to form his decision.
If you remember ... you made entirely the wrong assumption regarding my posts ... and the relevance of my post is in correcting that.


However ... I do not recall even newspaper talk let alone a police investigation based on a woke and wandered theory being developed at any time in 2007.

[The General]

When did Amaral settle on a 'woke and wandered' theory?

My opinion is that he was looking for a quick prosecution not so much to settle what happened to Madeleine but to deflect from his upcoming prosecution in a torture trial.

His first bite at the cherry was Murat.

When that didn't pan out he reverted to the tried and tested 'the parents dunnit' ... and that didn't pan out for him either.


It amazes me that you were not aware of the chain of command followed which ensured the input of the Portuguese Attorney General to the archiving process ... from police reports > to prosecutors > ultimately to the Attorney General who made the decision to archive until new evidence might be found ... particularly in such a high profile case such as Madeleine's ...
Snip
"In an order issued today ... the investigation into the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann has been halted because no evidence was discovered of any crime committed by the suspects," Attorney-General Fernando Pinto Monteiro's office said.

It said the investigation could be reopened "if new evidence emerges from any serious, pertinent and authoritative" source.
https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/madeleine-search-shelved-by-portuguese-police-1-1081355

As part of the legal process the archiving document was issued by the Attorney General's Office ... once he had considered the evidence presented by the police and prosecutors which he used to form his decision.
If you remember ... you made entirely the wrong assumption regarding my posts ... and the relevance of my post is in correcting that.


However ... I do not recall even newspaper talk let alone a police investigation based on a woke and wandered theory being developed at any time in 2007.

The only reason Murat was even considered was because Tanner pointed him out from 3 metres away - pretty compelling eye witness testimony that any police force in history would be remiss if they didn't take seriously. So let's not paint it as something it wasn't.

[sadie]

The only reason Murat was even considered was because Tanner pointed him out from 3 metres away - pretty compelling eye witness testimony that any police force in history would be remiss if they didn't take seriously. So let's not paint it as something it wasn't.

Are you sure that you have got that right? 

I thought that they became interested because a newspaper reporter thought him odd, or something like that.

Anyone remember?