Author Topic: Brexit and Moral Obligations.  (Read 3632 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #120 on: February 26, 2019, 07:37:45 AM »
General elections have been known to happen twice in relatively quick succession when the result was inconclusive or there was not a majority.  In any case both Boris and Nigel were very keen on a second referendum before they won, why was that now?
FYI
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_general_elections

Not because politicians think the people voted wtongly the first time. There's always the risk they'll do it again too; all those old people and idiots can't be trusted to do as they're told, you know.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #121 on: February 26, 2019, 07:47:01 AM »
Not because politicians think the people voted wtongly the first time. There's always the risk they'll do it again too; all those old people and idiots can't be trusted to do as they're told, you know.
Can I have a cite for “politicians think the people voted wrongly thr first time” please.  Is this what Jeremy thinks?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Eleanor

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #122 on: February 26, 2019, 07:47:39 AM »
Not because politicians think the people voted wtongly the first time. There's always the risk they'll do it again too; all those old people and idiots can't be trusted to do as they're told, you know.

And hopefully large numbers of them could be dead, or senile and can't remember what they voted the last time.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #123 on: February 26, 2019, 07:53:36 AM »
Not because politicians think the people voted wtongly the first time. There's always the risk they'll do it again too; all those old people and idiots can't be trusted to do as they're told, you know.
As (by your own admission) no one knows if Leave voters wanted a deal or no deal outcome why are you against a second referendum to ask the country if it wants May’s deal (a rock);or no deal (a hard place)?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Davel

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #124 on: February 26, 2019, 08:12:34 AM »
I think we would be better out with a good deal.... The problem is we are not going to get a good deal... The ballot eas advisory... And should be treated as such
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #125 on: February 26, 2019, 08:16:45 AM »
I think we would be better out with a good deal.... The problem is we are not going to get a good deal... The ballot eas advisory... And should be treated as such
We were never going to get a deal that left us in a better position economically out than in.  That should have been made clear at the very beginning, not the leave fantasy of having our cake and eat it.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #126 on: February 26, 2019, 08:31:53 AM »
And hopefully large numbers of them could be dead, or senile and can't remember what they voted the last time.

That's a bit nasty, isn't it? You also seem to be assuming they were all old; not true.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #127 on: February 26, 2019, 08:39:21 AM »
That's a bit nasty, isn't it? You also seem to be assuming they were all old; not true.
Eleanor was being facetious I believe.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Eleanor

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #128 on: February 26, 2019, 09:04:03 AM »
Eleanor was being facetious I believe.

Thanks.  Yes I was.  The whole thing is a farce anyway.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #129 on: February 26, 2019, 09:28:18 AM »
We were never going to get a deal that left us in a better position economically out than in.  That should have been made clear at the very beginning, not the leave fantasy of having our cake and eat it.

Economics seem to be your benchmark, but there are other considerations.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Erngath

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #130 on: February 26, 2019, 09:29:50 AM »
Thanks.  Yes I was.  The whole thing is a farce anyway.

It is indeed!
Westminster is a laughing stock.
The whole shambles is a disgrace!

In my opinion.

ETA.
Im continuing to stockpile pasta, canned Italian tomatoes and cat food. 8((()*/
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 09:42:13 AM by Erngath »
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Online Davel

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #131 on: February 26, 2019, 09:46:49 AM »
We were never going to get a deal that left us in a better position economically out than in.  That should have been made clear at the very beginning, not the leave fantasy of having our cake and eat it.

I think we should have got a deal which would have eventually left us better off... It depends now whether we capitulate to Brussels and accept they control us or stand firm and leave...
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Online Eleanor

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #132 on: February 26, 2019, 09:49:00 AM »
It is indeed!
Westminster is a laughing stock.
The whole shambles is a disgrace!

In my opinion.

You are not alone.  I simply don't know anymore.  If I am honest, which I try to be, even if I get things wrong, the whole thing was so badly thought through, probably because Cameron didn't think the Leavers had a hope in hell's chance.

At the time it seemed like a straightforward In or Out to me, which I now know was never possible.

I don't have a problem with The EU.  It treats me very well.  But I do have a problem with The Brussels Bureaucrats.  But then France largely ignores them.  France occasionally fines me some paltry sum when I refuse to upgrade my Septic Tank, which they put down to administration.  But this proves to me that Brussels actually cannot force me to do as they say.
Meanwhile, my sister in Wales was forced to spend a huge amount of money on a Tank that worked perfectly adequately beforehand.

Basically, The EU needs to get it's act together, and then no one would want to leave.  Maybe Brexit will accomplish this.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #133 on: February 26, 2019, 09:51:50 AM »
I think we would be better out with a good deal.... The problem is we are not going to get a good deal... The ballot eas advisory... And should be treated as such

I'm not sure what a "good deal" actually is.

A problem, IMO, is that there is no Brexit scenario that won't leave the UK worse off economically. Some may not be aware of that or else feel that that is a price worth paying for perceived other benefits.

- One I often hear mentioned is freedom from having EU regulations "imposed" by "unelected bureaucrats in Brussels", often shortened to simply "Brussels", a view widely fanned by the tabloids. I'd be interested in finding out what percentage of people understand how the EU works and the considerable influence that the UK has had in establishing EU laws.

A well-balanced report from Full Fact:
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

Even in the least bad Brexit scenario, the UK will end up being rule-takers instead of contributing as rule-makers.

- Another is over what I hear being called "illegal immigrants" scrounging off the welfare system. The general EU policy on FOM is clear and I've posted it more than once. And the reality is that EU migrants have made a substantial net contribution to the economy, far beyond any benefits they were entitled to.

A slightly different issue is that there was a problem with companies getting around the system and bringing in cheap labour from the poorer EU countries, thus undermining jobs for businesses paying normal wages. That was by no means confined to practices in the UK and the issue was addressed by the EU back in 2016 (IIRC).

Online Eleanor

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #134 on: February 26, 2019, 09:52:07 AM »
It is indeed!
Westminster is a laughing stock.
The whole shambles is a disgrace!

In my opinion.

ETA.
Im continuing to stockpile pasta, canned Italian tomatoes and cat food. 8((()*/

I get most of that from The Food Bank, and have a large stock already.  The Food Bank is mostly funded by The EU, so British Food Banks almost certainly are as well.
The only difference is that there is no shame here.