27 Times...

[Miss Taken Identity]

This is the number of times approximately GM/KM departed the unlocked patio doors during the evenings.  If they left @ 8.30 pm for tapas and checked every 30 mins with the last check at 11.00 pm this would amount to 6 x's Sun - Wed and 3 x's on Thu.  Most people will either sit out on the balcony and then go in when it gets cold/dark sliding the doors closed and locking them from within.  Or most people will go out for the evening via the front door which can be locked from outside and reenter this way too. 

Also please bear in mind how strange this might have sounded to Mrs Fenn who had lived above the McCanns for some 4 years.  She would come to know what was usual and what wasn't with regard to the habits of holidaymakers.  I would suggest hearing the patio doors sliding open and closed several times a night was not usual.  I've lived in a well appointed apartment and sound travels especially doors.  It's not a case of being nosey but just taking on board ambient noise from the environment.  Although in the case of Mrs Fenn she might well have been somewhat hypervigiliant having sustained a recent attempted burglary. 

Once T9 were seated in the tapas restaurant many could observe from vanatage points all this to and fro activity?  Furthermore, according to BO, the group was, perhaps unsurprisingly, rather loud!

"This is the number of times approximately GM/KM departed the unlocked patio doors during the evenings.  If they left @ 8.30 pm for tapas and checked every 30 mins with the last check at 11.00 pm this would amount to 6 x's Sun - Wed and 3 x's on Thu.  "

The evening MBM was allegedly abducted, was the only night as claimed by parents and some T9 there was any actual physical checking- strange  coincidence.

DP checking on the family before bedtime, Gerry had his loving father moment and Kate finding her daughter abducted!  Mat had a wee listen at the door.. so many checks on that one eve and it so happens to be the one evening one disappears!

OK  so let us go with the every 30 minute check. If this was a schedule they all followed- why the need for versions of a time line and confusion about doors?
leave for Tapas    @8.30
then                    @9 pm
then                     @9.30
Then                      @10pm

 We are  told by the T7 that they never checked on each others children so... how many times did Kate and Gerry go and check their childen that eve?   once by Gerry and once by Kate! The fact that they had to  try and remember the times is unbelievable
.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

But why in your opinion do you think the McCanns returned from tapas on 1st May with one entering via the front door and the other via the patio doors?

As far as I know they had been leaving / entering the Apartment in that way from Monday. There are several references to it from various sources.

[Holly Goodhead]

As far as I know they had been leaving / entering the Apartment in that way from Monday. There are several references to it from various sources.

If there are several about how they left the apartment in the evenings which deviate from locked front door and unlocked patio doors I would be most grateful if you could supply one or two. 

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

If there are several about how they left the apartment in the evenings which deviate from locked front door and unlocked patio doors I would be most grateful if you could supply one or two.

I meant there are several references to daytime and evenings whereby when they leave or enter one uses the front door and the other the patio door.

[Robittybob1]

I meant there are several references to daytime and evenings whereby when they leave or enter one uses the front door and the other the patio door.

IMO the only purpose was to make it easier for one parent, the other locked up the patio door from inside and left by the locked front door and came around the long way.

[ShiningInLuz]

IMO the only purpose was to make it easier for one parent, the other locked up the patio door from inside and left by the locked front door and came around the long way.

It's a very odd story.  That appears to leave a single parent to negotiate the baby gate, the flight of stairs, and the garden gate, whilst looking after 3 very young children.

The easy route was via the front door, with no flight of stairs, two parents to 3 kiddies.  Gerry testified they did that at least once.   Wednesday?

[Holly Goodhead]

I meant there are several references to daytime and evenings whereby when they leave or enter one uses the front door and the other the patio door.

I believe you are mixing day with night.  Afaik they have always been consistent with the night arrangements ie front door locked and patio doors closed but unlocked and exiting and re-entering and exiting to carry out the checks via the patio doors. 

[Holly Goodhead]

It's a very odd story.  That appears to leave a single parent to negotiate the baby gate, the flight of stairs, and the garden gate, whilst looking after 3 very young children.

The easy route was via the front door, with no flight of stairs, two parents to 3 kiddies.  Gerry testified they did that at least once.   Wednesday?

I agree without some additional info or explanation it seems odd to me too.

[Holly Goodhead]

For their claim of abduction to work, the patio door has to be left open. Part of the staging.
If it were left open only on Thursday, this would look odd, so the door needs to be left unlocked every night, so as to establish the routine - even if it wasn't.

IMO

In which case why bother 'staging' the window and shutter too? 

Mrs Fenn heard the patio doors open on 1st May and the crying and calling for Daddy stopped at the same time.  To my mind this is sufficient evidence to support the McCanns claims that they exited for tapas via the patio doors and re-entered and exited this way when carrying out the checks along with retiring for the night via the patio doors.  The reason they have given for doing this is that it was quieter to use these doors as opposed to the front door which was nearer to the children's bedroom.

Your counter argument to this is that possibly GM entered via the locked front door, walked through the apartment and opened the locked from inside patio door to allow KM in.  To my mind this is stretching what's plausible to fit a  wedded to narrative.

[Miss Taken Identity]

In which case why bother 'staging' the window and shutter too? 

Mrs Fenn heard the patio doors open on 1st May and the crying and calling for Daddy stopped at the same time.  To my mind this is sufficient evidence to support the McCanns claims that they exited for tapas via the patio doors and re-entered and exited this way when carrying out the checks along with retiring for the night via the patio doors.  The reason they have given for doing this is that it was quieter to use these doors as opposed to the front door which was nearer to the children's bedroom.

Your counter argument to this is that possibly GM entered via the locked front door, walked through the apartment and opened the locked from inside patio door to allow KM in.  To my mind this is stretching what's plausible to fit a  wedded to narrative.

They all used the long route to check as is told in their documentary.  Since Gerry can't recall or is confused about back and front door it is difficult to analyse properly.Jane certainly walked past the McCanns gate  and around the corner to get to her apartment.

Patio doors make a noise- Mrs Fenn could hear them, she never mentiones hearing front door entry/ exit.

IF an abductor carried MBM out of the apartment via any exit ther would have been some marks as he/she/ they would have to open/close behind them.  Kate claims it was the window. No one else saw the open window/shutters.

[Holly Goodhead]

They all used the long route to check as is told in their documentary.  Since Gerry can't recall or is confused about back and front door it is difficult to analyse properly.Jane certainly walked past the McCanns gate  and around the corner to get to her apartment.

Patio doors make a noise- Mrs Fenn could hear them, she never mentiones hearing front door entry/ exit.

IF an abductor carried MBM out of the apartment via any exit ther would have been some marks as he/she/ they would have to open/close behind them.  Kate claims it was the window. No one else saw the open window/shutters.

With regard to the evening checking arrangements, T4 have always been consistent in that they left all doors locked and carried out the checks via the front doors.  The Paynes had the monitor in-situ and afaik did not carry out any checks and in any event all doors were locked. 

When the McCanns arrived at OC they found the cots in the back bedroom (overlooking pool).  They made the decision to move these to the front bedroom (overlooking car park) which then placed the children's bedroom close to the front door, hence when they went out to tapas they exited via the unlocked patio doors and carried out the checks via these doors as it was furthest away from the children's bedroom and made less noise.

I think you've answered your own question in that Mrs Fenn doesn't mention the front door since it wasn't used at night.

Why would any abductor leave marks behind?  Unless they suffered some sort of cognitive impairment or mental illness they would be mindful of what they were doing was criminal and would take basic steps to avoid detection ie don a pair of gloves.

[Miss Taken Identity]

With regard to the evening checking arrangements, T4 have always been consistent in that they left all doors locked and carried out the checks via the front doors.  The Paynes had the monitor in-situ and afaik did not carry out any checks and in any event all doors were locked. 

When the McCanns arrived at OC they found the cots in the back bedroom (overlooking pool).  They made the decision to move these to the front bedroom (overlooking car park) which then placed the children's bedroom close to the front door, hence when they went out to tapas they exited via the unlocked patio doors and carried out the checks via these doors as it was furthest away from the children's bedroom and made less noise.

I think you've answered your own question in that Mrs Fenn doesn't mention the front door since it wasn't used at night.

Why would any abductor leave marks behind?  Unless they suffered some sort of cognitive impairment or mental illness they would be mindful of what they were doing was criminal and would take basic steps to avoid detection ie don a pair of gloves.

This brings me to the question- why would the dogs follow a scent alledgedly of MBM going out the front door.  According to Kate MBM would have used the patio doors if leaving to fetch them.

If MBM was being carried out the front door how would the dog pick up scent of MBM?

They may use gloves but that would leave smudge marks on door/handles- none were found and going out the window would need a very small professional chinese circus performer.IMO

[jassi]

Would some carrying Madeleine out the front door, particularly carrying her in the method described by Tanner be able to lock the door after them, or would they need a trusty assistant for that too ?

[Anthro]

If someone had entered via the patio doors, picked Madeleine up and made an exit via the front door (that type of door where I am from, does auto-lock upon closing), the Tanner sighting is not plausible because of the position of Madeleine’s bed in the room, against the wall at the bedroom entrance and the way the child was carried i.e. head over left arm and legs over right arm. Unless that person was savvy enough to change her position in his arms to mislead the investigation to follow.

The only other explanation, in my opinion, is that the person picked Madeleine up and passed her through the window to someone else, thus the orientation of the child according to Tanner.

[G-Unit]

If someone had entered via the patio doors, picked Madeleine up and made an exit via the front door (that type of door where I am from, does auto-lock upon closing), the Tanner sighting is not plausible because of the position of Madeleine’s bed in the room, against the wall at the bedroom entrance and the way the child was carried i.e. head over left arm and legs over right arm. Unless that person was savvy enough to change her position in his arms to mislead the investigation to follow.

The only other explanation, in my opinion, is that the person picked Madeleine up and passed her through the window to someone else, thus the orientation of the child according to Tanner.

There's a simpler explanation; it wasn't Madeleine.