Mark Redwine v 16 cadaver dogs

[Vertigo Swirl]

Grime says Eddie had dectected human remains from shortly after death to advanced decmpositin/skeletal.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Has this been independently verified?  What does “shortly after” mean in this instance?  Minutes?  Hours?  Days?  Was this with bodies in situ or not?  If not how long since the body had been in situ were the tests carried out?  Minutes?  Hours?  Days?  Weeks?  Months?

[Mr Gray]

Grime says Eddie had dectected human remains from shortly after death to advanced decmpositin/skeletal.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Human cadaders, whether in the whole or parts thereof, deposited surface or
sub-surface to a depth of approximately 1 metre shortly after death (though
precise times are not determinable)


so precise timed not determinable

[Vertigo Swirl]

Human cadaders, whether in the whole or parts thereof, deposited surface or
sub-surface to a depth of approximately 1 metre shortly after death (though
precise times are not determinable)


so precise timed not determinable

Right, so actual body parts, not the odour of a body that had only just died two months previously.  A big difference IMO.  Doesn’t Edde alert to blood after all?  Plenty in a body part I would have thought.

[Mr Gray]

Grime says Eddie had dectected human remains from shortly after death to advanced decmpositin/skeletal.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

this can only be the attracta harron case...certainly not soon after death.What other remains had eddie discovered at this time...none apart from this one

[misty]

Thank goodness for something that actually relates to the Redwine case!  Most interesting!

The first document, though written in long-winded legalese, was actually quite understandable.

The second I approached with a bit of caution.  How does one join up the fresh cadaver odour with the dog?  Import cadaver odour from South America?  Send the dogs on a working visit to South America?

Anyway, very interesting links.   

Here's the full appeal request for dismissal of the cadaver dogs' evidence. Much of the material used in the defence's submission has already been featured on our forum.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/06th_Judicial_District/La_Plata/Redwine/031119%20PD%20BRIEF(1).pdf

Page 8 (15/39) is particularly interesting.
*snipped*
"Indeed, if the cadaver dogs were, in fact, reliable, then the record of their respective alerts should be consistent. But it is not; it is sporadic, riddled with "misses", inconsistencies & false alerts and void of the predictability and reproducibility that are the hallmarks of reliable scientific evidence."

[Robittybob1]

Well?  I see noone has attempted to answer this question.  Surely it is key to support the view that he alerted to cadaver odour in Apartment  5a?

None of us fully know how Martin Grime trained his dogs.  Until you do stop criticising his training methods.

[barrier]

Here's the full appeal request for dismissal of the cadaver dogs' evidence. Much of the material used in the defence's submission has already been featured on our forum.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/06th_Judicial_District/La_Plata/Redwine/031119%20PD%20BRIEF(1).pdf

Page 8 (15/39) is particularly interesting.
*snipped*
"Indeed, if the cadaver dogs were, in fact, reliable, then the record of their respective alerts should be consistent. But it is not; it is sporadic, riddled with "misses", inconsistencies & false alerts and void of the predictability and reproducibility that are the hallmarks of reliable scientific evidence."

The judge obviously wasn't impressed though.

[Robittybob1]

does grime have any evidence to support this...eddies cv is very sparse

Don't be facetious.

[G-Unit]

Here's the full appeal request for dismissal of the cadaver dogs' evidence. Much of the material used in the defence's submission has already been featured on our forum.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/06th_Judicial_District/La_Plata/Redwine/031119%20PD%20BRIEF(1).pdf

Page 8 (15/39) is particularly interesting.
*snipped*
"Indeed, if the cadaver dogs were, in fact, reliable, then the record of their respective alerts should be consistent. But it is not; it is sporadic, riddled with "misses", inconsistencies & false alerts and void of the predictability and reproducibility that are the hallmarks of reliable scientific evidence."

In my opinion very little evidence used in court reaches such standards, so suggesting that dog alerts should is a straw-man argument.

[Vertigo Swirl]

None of us fully know how Martin Grime trained his dogs.  Until you do stop criticising his training methods.

Kindly point to the criticism in my post.

[misty]

In my opinion very little evidence used in court reaches such standards, so suggesting that dog alerts should is a straw-man argument.

If you'd read the document you'd have noted that the State of Colorado had never admitted cadaver dog evidence in court. (last paragraph, page 2).

[Robittybob1]

None of us fully know how Martin Grime trained his dogs.  Until you do stop criticising his training methods.

OK you might say you're just asking questions.
"Where is the evidence that Eddie was trained to detect the odour of the very early stages of human decomposition?
Well?  I see noone has attempted to answer this question.  Surely it is key to support the view that he alerted to cadaver odour in Apartment  5a?"
All I was trying to get across is until you can answer the questions we are not in a position to criticise his training methods.

[Robittybob1]

Kindly point to the criticism in my post.

OK you might say you're just asking questions.

You've asked:
"Where is the evidence that Eddie was trained to detect the odour of the very early stages of human decomposition?
Well?  I see no one has attempted to answer this question.  Surely it is key to support the view that he alerted to cadaver odour in Apartment  5a?"

All I was trying to get across is until you can answer the questions we are not in a position to criticise his training methods.

[G-Unit]

If you'd read the document you'd have noted that the State of Colorado had never admitted cadaver dog evidence in court. (last paragraph, page 2).

Well it is now.

[barrier]

Well it is now.

Sort of a test trial,the judge obviously heard the arguments for and against at pre trial and is prepared to let a jury of peers hear for themselves.I doubt the prosecution is relying solely on the alerts but it must form a large basis, for the defence to try and get it ruled to be inadmissible.