The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm

[icabodcrane]

No. It leads me to doubt the accuracy of the available evidence.

It confirms to me what hugely varying powers of recall different people have. 

IMO All the witnesses involved in this case did their best to remember what they had done/seen etc etc.  and the fact that some statements contradict others does not mean that ANYONE deliberately lied.

It does mean that some must be inaccurate though

Mrs B maintains that there is no basis on which to doubt the accuracy of the receptionist's statement  ...  do you agree with her ?

[Mrs. B]

I maintain that there are CONFLICTING witness statements contained within the files & I also maintain that the telephone records ONLY show that a phone call was made at a certain time from that particular line. That, in itself, does not EXCLUDE that a phone call could have been made EARLIER from another line or a mobile phone.

It's not difficult!

[icabodcrane]

I maintain that there are CONFLICTING witness statements contained within the files & I also maintain that the telephone records ONLY show that a phone call was made at a certain time from that particular line. That, in itself, does not EXCLUDE that a phone call could have been made EARLIER from another line or a mobile phone.

It's not difficult!

it's interesting that you do not doubt the receptionist's statement,  given that it is very relevent to the topic under discussion in this thread   'Independent witnesses place Gerry McCann at the tapas bar at 10pm

Here we have an independent witness who definately places Gerry McCann  away  from the tapas bar at 10pm

...  and in your opinion he is a credible witness to be taken at his word

[Mrs. B]

As you well know, I don't share your view on what constitute an "independent witness", I think it's a way of twisting facts to suit your purpose.

[icabodcrane]

As you well know, I don't share your view on what constitute an "independent witness", I think it's a way of twisting facts to suit your purpose.

The  purpose of this thread is to determine whether or not independent witnesses  (  anyone  other than the McCann's friends )  place Gerry in the tapas bar at 10pm

You have highlighted an independent witness who definately places Gerry away from the tapas bar at 10pm ...  and you have defended his credibility

That is a useful contribution to the subject under discussion

[Mrs. B]

Yes, according to the witness he was in reception at that time. Contradicting statements again, such a novelty in this case.

[DCI]

No. It leads me to doubt the accuracy of the available evidence.

It confirms to me what hugely varying powers of recall different people have. 

IMO All the witnesses involved in this case did their best to remember what they had done/seen etc etc.  and the fact that some statements contradict others does not mean that ANYONE deliberately lied.

It does mean that some must be inaccurate though

Mrs B maintains that there is no basis on which to doubt the accuracy of the receptionist's statement  ...  do you agree with her ?

Amaral has his own share of inaccuracies, in his book, though doesn't he?

1. Jane Tanner, said it was Murat she saw on the night. She didn't.

2. Jane tanner was in a police car, when she said it was Murat. She was with Bob Small in a van.

[icabodcrane]

No. It leads me to doubt the accuracy of the available evidence.

It confirms to me what hugely varying powers of recall different people have. 

IMO All the witnesses involved in this case did their best to remember what they had done/seen etc etc.  and the fact that some statements contradict others does not mean that ANYONE deliberately lied.

It does mean that some must be inaccurate though

Mrs B maintains that there is no basis on which to doubt the accuracy of the receptionist's statement  ...  do you agree with her ?

Amaral has his own share of inaccuracies, in his book, though doesn't he?

1. Jane Tanner, said it was Murat she saw on the night. She didn't.

2. Jane tanner was in a police car, when she said it was Murat. She was with Bob Small in a van.

That might be worth a thread of it's own

It certainly has nothing to do with this one

[Redblossom]

No. It leads me to doubt the accuracy of the available evidence.

It confirms to me what hugely varying powers of recall different people have. 

IMO All the witnesses involved in this case did their best to remember what they had done/seen etc etc.  and the fact that some statements contradict others does not mean that ANYONE deliberately lied.

It does mean that some must be inaccurate though

Mrs B maintains that there is no basis on which to doubt the accuracy of the receptionist's statement  ...  do you agree with her ?

Amaral has his own share of inaccuracies, in his book, though doesn't he?

1. Jane Tanner, said it was Murat she saw on the night. She didn't.

2. Jane tanner was in a police car, when she said it was Murat. She was with Bob Small in a van.

You seem to have some obsession along with others over the *evil* Mr Amaral, perhaps admin should start a new board for you and yours so you can stop derailing every thread, just a thought,  nite nite

[Chinagirl]

It is an anti construct that the seven tapas friends are not independent witnesses, that they helped to cover up the disappearance of Madeleine.  There is no evidence to suggest that they are any less independent than any other witnesses.

[Mrs. B]

It is an anti construct that the seven tapas friends are not independent witnesses, that they helped to cover up the disappearance of Madeleine.  There is no evidence to suggest that they are any less independent than any other witnesses.

Yes, I agree, and I mean no disrespect to Admin, but may I ask why that is? Why are we to assume that everybody who happened to sit at the same table as the McCann, despite the fact that some of them were mere acquaintances of the couple, are somehow dishonest or untrustworthy, i.e. their statements not to be treated the same as everybody else's?

[Mr Moderator]

The very nature of the term "independent witnesses" precludes the tapas 7.   The allegation is that these seven individuals somehow colluded in a conspiracy to cover up a crime.  These were not casual acquaintances whom the McCanns met on holiday but friends and associates who chose to go on holiday abroad together.  They are therefore not independent of each other nor can they be designated as independent witnesses.

[Benice]

The very nature of the term "independent witnesses" precludes the tapas 7.   The allegation is that these seven individuals somehow colluded in a conspiracy to cover up a crime.  These were not casual acquaintances whom the McCanns met on holiday but friends and associates who chose to go on holiday abroad together.  They are therefore not independent of each other nor can they be designated as independent witnesses.

Hmmm would you class someone like Jayne Tanner as a friend or associate?  Until this holday she had only met the McCanns half a dozen times over a period of 4 years  and never on a one to one basis - but just as guests at the same birthday parties and weddings etc.      She was Fiona Paynes friend.

I believe she did say she was getting to know Kate on this holiday because they took their tennis lessons together  -  but she also said words to the effect that although Gerry was fine - he was not quite her cup of tea.

I don't think I would describe a 'friend of a friend' as a 'friend of mine'.

Also wasn't there another couple (can't remember who at the moment) - who had not seen the McCanns for 3 years before this holiday?

[Mrs. B]

Yes, and the mother of another friend. Most bizarre outlook....IMO

[AnneGuedes]

Hmmm would you class someone like Jayne Tanner as a friend or associate?  Until this holday she had only met the McCanns half a dozen times over a period of 4 years  and never on a one to one basis - but just as guests at the same birthday parties and weddings etc.      She was Fiona Paynes friend.

I believe she did say she was getting to know Kate on this holiday because they took their tennis lessons together  -  but she also said words to the effect that although Gerry was fine - he was not quite her cup of tea.

I don't think I would describe a 'friend of a friend' as a 'friend of mine'.

Also wasn't there another couple (can't remember who at the moment) - who had not seen the McCanns for 3 years before this holiday?

Benice, there are obviously degrees of "independence".
The alibi given by a wife to her husband has no value, even if the husband was with her when the crime occurred. But also a wife can't testify against her husband, even if she saw him murder someone. Hence the staging in "Witness for the Prosecution".