Author Topic: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm  (Read 189655 times)

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Offline John

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #660 on: October 17, 2013, 10:20:17 PM »
According to statements Gerry claimed he left the table at 9.05 approx. and there was no claim he was away for 30 minutes. This man who left for 30 mins at 9.30 was ROB, wasn't it the time he and JT were swapping childcare duties?

 only catching up today, sorry if I have misunderstood posts. I think I have read that the statement of Svetlana is leading you to conclude this was G? if so I think she was mistaken and saw ROB leave.

Yes, you are correct jeanne darc, I have edited both posts to reflect this.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Benice

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #661 on: October 17, 2013, 10:27:45 PM »
I just found that sentence in her statement (reproduced higher up this page) ambiguous and wondered what others thought she meant.

I recognise it might just be a translation thing as this was her statement to the PJ.

Oh right.  Thanks for that.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #662 on: October 18, 2013, 12:23:58 AM »
They were only away for a total of one and half hours - some of them even less than that 
Generally, they left the Tapas at 23h30/midnight, at times together and at other times in small groups. On the night in which they drank more than usual, they left a bit later, perhaps towards 00h30-01h00.
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Offline Luz

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #663 on: October 18, 2013, 01:34:47 AM »
Apologies,   yes your right Andy Redwood didn't say it,   I read it in the news.

It was in reply to C. Edwards who was questioning the time of the Smith's sighting,   Andy Redwood does say the Smith's sighting was at 10 o'clock,   meaning that Kate would have just missed the abductor by minutes when she did her check   -

But this has been found not to involve Madeleine.

The revelation has shifted detectives' focus on to a later sighting at 10pm when an Irish family reported seeing a man walking towards the beach carrying a blonde girl in pyjamas.

She appeared to be in an uncomfortable position with her head slumped against him.

DCI Redwood said: 'Our focus in terms of understanding what happened on the night of May 3 has now given us a shift of emphasis. We are almost certain that the man seen by Jane Tanner is not Madeleine's abductor. Amazing how quickly you/they shift positions. Until this show, Tanner's man was the abductor.


'It takes us through to a position at 10pm when we see another man who is walking towards the ocean, close by to the apartment, with a young child in his arms.'

Today it was revealed the police may have made a major breakthrough in the hunt for Madeleine after more than 1,000 people came forward with fresh information and several named the same man as the prime suspect. But the witness that unraveled that new target was peremptory at stating that it was when seeing Gerry McCann descending the  plane, after escaping from Portugal as arguidos, that clicked in his memory that the man he saw was none other than Mr. McCann himself

The three-year-old's disappearance was reconstructed in a dramatic BBC Crimewatch appeal last night and Scotland Yard has today hailed a 'truly unprecedented' response.

Detectives believe a suspect seen carrying a child 500 yards from the McCanns' holiday apartment was the kidnapper who struck just before her mother went to check on her children.

I bet that 80 or 90%, minimum, of the calls named one person they wished had never been named.

Offline Lace

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #664 on: October 18, 2013, 09:27:19 AM »
Generally, they left the Tapas at 23h30/midnight, at times together and at other times in small groups. On the night in which they drank more than usual, they left a bit later, perhaps towards 00h30-01h00.
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That quote Anne doesn't mention it was the McCann's who left a bit later,   I think the waiter was talking about the group in general,   some stayed some didn't.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #665 on: October 18, 2013, 09:46:44 AM »
That quote Anne doesn't mention it was the McCann's who left a bit later,   I think the waiter was talking about the group in general,   some stayed some didn't.
Yes, Lace. They didn't behave like a tourist group.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #666 on: October 18, 2013, 09:51:13 AM »
I bet that 80 or 90%, minimum, of the calls named one person they wished had never been named.
I wonder if that appeal will not produce more damage than profit. One e-fit is supposed to correct the other. Is it possible to combine both and have a reasonable idea of the person behind ?

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #667 on: October 18, 2013, 10:27:13 AM »
Yes, Lace. They didn't behave like a tourist group.

How does a tourist group behave Anne? In your experience.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #668 on: October 18, 2013, 02:38:17 PM »
Those first searches for Madeleine at 10pm are important. Where did everyone go searching? They all split up. How long did they search for on the streets? What time were people getting back to the apartment?  The police received first phone call at 10.40pm?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline jassi

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #669 on: October 18, 2013, 02:55:19 PM »
They certainly didn't all search. The women were concerned with looking after the remaining children and at least one man was detailed to deal with the police when they arrived, so possibly 3 or 4 did any physical searching.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #670 on: October 18, 2013, 02:56:51 PM »
Did all the men go searching the streets?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #671 on: October 18, 2013, 03:14:45 PM »
Did all the men go searching the streets?

In her book Kate says that Gerry, David,  Russell and Mathew  split into pairs and dashed around the adjacent apartment blocks,  meeting back at their flat within a couple of minutes

I don't think much searching of the streets could have been  done in less than two minutes

Whether or not they searched the streets at some point after that,  Kate does not mention  ( it might be in the rogatory interviews  )  but going by Kate's  book it appears that Gerry stayed in the apartment until some time after  10.35pm  when she says he was  'running from pillar to post' 

She adds that sometime after they had moved the children into Fiona's apartment  ( some time after 3.00am )  she  'insisted'  that Gerry and Dave go out again to look for some sign of Madeleine and that they went up and down the beach in the dark, running, shouting, desperate to find something

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #672 on: October 18, 2013, 03:25:08 PM »
David Payne: "I did a sweep of the err the pool err and the area you know immediately around err the Ocean Club, then met up with Matt and err Russell and you know I remember saying right what, you know, what we gonna do and Matt was saying right we’ve gotta try and be you know systematic here err you know, right if you, you want to go off in that area and I’ll go down to the Ocean Club reception and you know ask them to call the Police and so you know I, I started venturing up towards the err Millennium where we’d eaten and it was just so quiet and there was nothing going on that way and I just thought oh you know, and I again I was just building up hope that she’d ran off err you know I actually went on a search and I went down past the Supermarket, I went down towards the err seafront, you know went along the whole length of the err beach looking under you know err beach huts and etcetera, just you know and shouting Madeleine, any people that we saw we explained,"

Mathew Oldfield: "I went, because I was on my own, I went back up to the, erm, to the apartment and it was just obvious that she wasn't in the apartment, but we were still sort of just milling about on the street, everybody was just running around just sort of trying to, you know, sort of search nearby roads. And so we, erm, I volunteered to go up to the, erm, I went up to the Millennium Restaurant because it was just one of the routes that I thought she might have taken, although I couldn't say why I thought she would because we'd only been there once on that night before and maybe she'd been for the restaurant, so we'd only been at the initial welcoming, that was the only time that we went for that meal in the evening because the food wasn't great there, it wasn't quite up to the MARK WARNER resorts of, but anyway, so we did other things and that's why we liked the Tapas, so there was no reason really why she'd have gone up there, but it was a, just a different route. So a lot of it in terms of timing is blurred, but up and onto the top road to the Millennium Restaurant, which is pretty much you come up and along this road for about sort of five or ten minutes and sort of this end of town, let them know that a little girl was missing and then gone back through the back streets, down on the beach and then back to the apartment. "

Russell O'Brien: " I then conducted a quick search of the immediate area with Matt, Dave and possibly Gerry.  We searched a cul-de-sac area which I would describe as being a passage way at the front of the block on the car park side.  We went on to search the gardens and patios.  Then we went downhill towards the centre.  On the second search we went to the shopping centre and then towards the tennis courts.  We searched around the back of the tennis courts.
On my way back I bumped into Dave he said to me this is bad this is really bad they’ve not found her.  We searched down to the beach I searched the East side, and Matt and Dave the West side.  We went back to 5A it was clear that panic was setting in Gerry was on the phone to a family member back home."

No mention of Gerry searching with the others except for Russell which is possibly with Gerry? What time on the phone records was Gerry phoning a family member?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 03:40:31 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #673 on: October 18, 2013, 03:58:15 PM »
Mrs Payne says they left the McCanns at the bottom of the stairs and the men and herself split in a quick search around.
But Mrs McCann, according to Mrs Webster, was alone in the flat when she went there, five minutes after the alarm.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 04:12:33 PM by AnneGuedes »

Offline south of the river

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #674 on: October 18, 2013, 04:13:41 PM »
Just caught up with 46 pages - which seems to have went nowhere

The only point I would make - is that in any investigation of this type - I would have thought that placing the three suspects at the time exact movements - and I mean exact would have been one of the most important lines of the  investigation  - I mean critical - along side forensics .

Are we really to believe that the PJ really didn't nail this point down . They might not have a lot to go on without a body or forensics - but at least they can without doubt have the time line and where the chief suspects are down to minutes

I know that witnesses do not always give the same answer to the  same question - ie show two people a scene and you will get different answers the next day BUT

I just cannot believe that the PJ would not have exhausted  all the fac ts about where Gerry was at the critical time of 9.15 - 10.15

If his whereabouts was so vague - why on earth would the final report state they knew where he was at the critical time  - IF the PJ can get such a critical fact wrong it just beggars belief

I appreciate the timeline was fluid at the time - but come on - whatever Amaral  and his team might be - they were not completely incompetent to this extent

They would have spoken face to face with all the  staff  directly . If a hole that big in  a time line such as Gerry being missing long enough  to disappear and hide a body that never ever was found - I I just don't get it