Is it any wonder that initial investigators arrived at the conclusions they did?

[Holly Goodhead]

Is it any wonder that initial investigators arrived at the conclusions they did?

- GM didn't make it clear up front the patio door was unsecured and that this was the door used for carrying out the checks whilst the children slept unsupervised over 5 consecutive nights whilst he and KM dined out at tapas for some 3 hours every evening.   

- The emphasis was on KM's claims of the raised shutter and open window although no signs of forced entry at this window or elsewhere,

- JT claims she observed a man carrying a child away from 5A en route to her apartment.  The route she claims to have taken meant she came within touching distance of GM chatting to JW although neither observed her.

- A Glasgow based friend of the MCCanns was telling the media, within hours of MM's disappearance, that the shutter had been jemmied despite the fact there was no evidence of forced entry.

[barrier]

It was the sister of GM who relayed to the press about the shutter.

Trish said: "When Kate checked, she came out screaming. Maddy had gone. The door was open and the window in the bedroom and shutters were jemmied open. Nothing had been touched and no valuables taken.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddy-3-goes-missing-472340

[Holly Goodhead]

It was the sister of GM who relayed to the press about the shutter.

Trish said: "When Kate checked, she came out screaming. Maddy had gone. The door was open and the window in the bedroom and shutters were jemmied open. Nothing had been touched and no valuables taken.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddy-3-goes-missing-472340

Thanks.  From the article you posted I can see the person I was referring to is Jill Renwick who went on air saying the shutters had been jemmied. 

[G-Unit]

Jon Corner and Brian Healy were also told.

[Holly Goodhead]

Jon Corner and Brian Healy were also told.

Thanks. 

This is it imo...the way the story was told in the early hours/days simply doesn't fit the facts.  I take the view when MM disappeared T9 were blown away and went into overdrive on a damage limitation exercise over the security of the apartments where the children were left unsupervised for hours at a time over 5 consecutive evenings along with who was checking who, when, where and how.  But I can see how others, including PJ, could quite easily see all of this as evidence of something more sinister! 

[Vertigo Swirl]

Thanks. 

This is it imo...the way the story was told in the early hours/days simply doesn't fit the facts.  I take the view when MM disappeared T9 were blown away and went into overdrive on a damage limitation exercise over the security of the apartments where the children were left unsupervised for hours at a time over 5 consecutive evenings along with who was checking who, when, where and how.  But I can see how others, including PJ, could quite easily see all of this as evidence of something more sinister!

So you don’t believe any of the parents did any checks that night and are all lying do you?

[Holly Goodhead]

So you don’t believe any of the parents did any checks that night and are all lying do you?

No that's not what I said.  I believe GM downplayed the unsecured patio doors evidenced by:

- no mention of unsecured patio doors in GNR (first respondents) wit stats
- friends and family in early hours were beating the drum about jemmied shutters
- GM claims in his wit stat of 4th May he was using front door to check not unsecured patio doors.  In his 10th May wit stat he came clean. 

- I believe on 3rd May JT was checking her children via the unsecured patio door.  This then accounts for the fact she observed GM/JW but they didn't observe her.  JT and JW both say GM/JW stood chatting outside the gate to 5A. 

- RO states in her wit stat that during the day her family would exit via the patio doors thereby leaving them unsecured.  She also states she didn't like the car park at night as it was dark.  On this basis I choose to believe the Oldfields were also checking via the unsecured patio doors and not the front door. 

- RO is a trained lawyer and may well have alerted T8 to the possibility of charges of 'child neglect' and even if she didn't I think it would immediately hit T9 how all of this was going to look: a bunch of professionals wining and dining out every evening, leaving children 'home alone' for hours at a time completely unsupervised and worst still in all likelihood not even locking the doors!

[Vertigo Swirl]

No that's not what I said.  I believe GM downplayed the unsecured patio doors evidenced by:

- no mention of unsecured patio doors in GNR (first respondents) wit stats
- friends and family in early hours were beating the drum about jemmied shutters
- GM claims in his wit stat of 4th May he was using front door to check not unsecured patio doors.  In his 10th May wit stat he came clean. 

- I believe on 3rd May JT was checking her children via the unsecured patio door.  This then accounts for the fact she observed GM/JW but they didn't observe her.  JT and JW both say GM/JW stood chatting outside the gate to 5A. 

- RO states in her wit stat that during the day her family would exit via the patio doors thereby leaving them unsecured.  She also states she didn't like the car park at night as it was dark.  On this basis I choose to believe the Oldfields were also checking via the unsecured patio doors and not the front door. 

- RO is a trained lawyer and may well have alerted T8 to the possibility of charges of 'child neglect' and even if she didn't I think it would immediately hit T9 how all of this was going to look: a bunch of professionals wining and dining out every evening, leaving children 'home alone' for hours at a time completely unsupervised and worst still in all likelihood not even locking the doors!

what did you mean then when you wrote in your previous post “the children were left unsupervised for hours at a time”?

[Lace]

It was the sister of GM who relayed to the press about the shutter.

Trish said: "When Kate checked, she came out screaming. Maddy had gone. The door was open and the window in the bedroom and shutters were jemmied open. Nothing had been touched and no valuables taken.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddy-3-goes-missing-472340

Too much emphasis is put on what Trish said.   Trish recalled her brother was hysterical  sobbing down the phone,  she had a job to comprehend what he was saying as he was very distraught.   The door IMO that he was referring to was the bedroom door which Kate said she found wide open,   the shutters Gerry believed had been forced open as according to them they believed the shutters could only be opened from the inside.  Trish was the one who said jemmied,  or maybe Gerry might have said used something to force the shutters.  Everything is simple to work out and IMO  this conversation is twisted by many.

[The General]

Too much emphasis is put on what Trish said.   Trish recalled her brother was hysterical  sobbing down the phone,  she had a job to comprehend what he was saying as he was very distraught.   The door IMO that he was referring to was the bedroom door which Kate said she found wide open,   the shutters Gerry believed had been forced open as according to them they believed the shutters could only be opened from the inside.  Trish was the one who said jemmied,  or maybe Gerry might have said used something to force the shutters.  Everything is simple to work out and IMO  this conversation is twisted by many.

Pretty sure Trish had no concept of what a jemmy was at that time. Can't verify that because I'm in an OP covertly surveilling a Tango in a hedge. But I'm sure it's true.

[Eleanor]

Pretty sure Trish had no concept of what a jemmy was at that time. Can't verify that because I'm in an OP covertly surveilling a Tango in a hedge. But I'm sure it's true.

"Jemmied" is a long time Glaswegian expression.  It generally means o break in somewhere with something, not necessarily a Jemmy.

[The General]

"Jemmied" is a long time Glaswegian expression.  It generally means o break in somewhere with something, not necessarily a Jemmy.

Nah, it's not just a Glaswegian term, a jemmy is common slang for a crowbar. But could also be a verb; Jimmy jemmied Johnny's Jewellers window, stealing jaw dropping gems for Jenny....

[Holly Goodhead]

what did you mean then when you wrote in your previous post “the children were left unsupervised for hours at a time”?

T9 were leaving their children 'home alone' Sun - Thu from 8.30 pm up until very late into the evenings.   

By GM's own admission on the reconstruction vid his check at circa 9 pm on 3rd May was the first time he had ever physically checked.  I personally do not believe he physically checked at 9 pm on 3rd May.  KM states in her PB that they were physically checking as well as listening and yet what was she physically checking when by her own admission at circa 10 pm on 3rd May she could not even determine whether or not MM was in her bed and did not want to put the light on for fear of waking the children. 

[G-Unit]

T9 were leaving their children 'home alone' Sun - Thu from 8.30 pm up until very late into the evenings.   

By GM's own admission on the reconstruction vid his check at circa 9 pm on 3rd May was the first time he had ever physically checked.  I personally do not believe he physically checked at 9 pm on 3rd May.  KM states in her PB that they were physically checking as well as listening and yet what was she physically checking when by her own admission at circa 10 pm on 3rd May she could not even determine whether or not MM was in her bed and did not want to put the light on for fear of waking the children.

They both gave a reason for entering the children's bedroom; the open door. Therefore it can be assumed that they wouldn't have entered if it had been as they left it.

[Vertigo Swirl]

T9 were leaving their children 'home alone' Sun - Thu from 8.30 pm up until very late into the evenings.   

By GM's own admission on the reconstruction vid his check at circa 9 pm on 3rd May was the first time he had ever physically checked.  I personally do not believe he physically checked at 9 pm on 3rd May.  KM states in her PB that they were physically checking as well as listening and yet what was she physically checking when by her own admission at circa 10 pm on 3rd May she could not even determine whether or not MM was in her bed and did not want to put the light on for fear of waking the children.

So it’s your contention that despite the frequent visits of the parents and their friends back to their apartments the children were left unsupervised for hours at a time is it?