Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?

[Mr Gray]

By definition it is!  she could have been told to big it up for the TV.
She would have no other reason to make it up! However, I still insist and believe  this was relayed to her exactly by Gerry McCann's own words.

no...she cannot form  a conspiracy on her own....if you cant understand such a simple fact its  a waste of time

[Mr Gray]

OK describe the 'sailboat' with sails. sailing along with wind power only! If you can't then you must accept that a motor engine was used to power the boat.

Also, If Gerry's sister made bits up by herself I could concur  some kind of conspiracy took place to get a 'story' out there. If the 'jemmied' scenario was an actual statement why are you making such a big thing to play it down- It must be important in some way.

if she made it up by herself that cannot be  a conspiracy

[Miss Taken Identity]

no...she cannot form  a conspiracy on her own....if you cant understand such a simple fact its  a waste of time

It would help if you read the post!

She may have been told to big it up  bit of drama. < conspiracy!

 I am not saying that happened at all. I believe she relayed exactly as she was told by Gerry, her Brother!  And this was to produce a window entry /exit by an abductor-making it sound very dramatic!

  Otherwise she could have said the door was left unlocked- the kids has wakened previously- MBM mentioned being left alone... but No, that was not in the initial news story.

[Mr Gray]

It would help if you read the post!

She may have been told to big it up  bit of drama. < conspiracy!

 I am not saying that happened at all. I believe she relayed exactly as she was told by Gerry, her Brother!  And this was to produce a window entry /exit by an abductor-making it sound very dramatic!

  Otherwise she could have said the door was left unlocked- the kids has wakened previously- MBM mentioned being left alone... but No, that was not in the initial news story.

You added.. Big it up.. In your second post..when you were caught out

[Miss Taken Identity]

You added.. Big it up.. In your second post..when you were caught out

No I didn't


Quote from: Miss Taken Identity on Today at 07:30:45 PM

    By definition it is!  she could have been told to big it up for the TV.
    She would have no other reason to make it up! However, I still insist and believe  this was relayed to her exactly by Gerry McCann's own words.


no...she cannot form  a conspiracy on her own....if you cant understand such a simple fact its  a waste of time



Taken from your quote- which I cannot edit!

Any chance of apology?  no? OK.  it is there for all to read!

Davel>"You added.. Big it up.. In your second post..when you were caught out"

 Tsk Tsk

[sadie]

does that mean there could not have been a gust in Luz...did the apt have an open fireplace

The apartment may well have had an open window on its eastern side, or the parents bedroom patio window on the southern side could have been ajar.

I have read that after nightfall, at the ocean front, the high pressure rolls down towards the sea.  After dawn the pressure rises up over land again.  So  at 10pm the sun had gone down and pressure in the form of wind would be rolling down hill when it hit this wall . 


This was the wall with Madeleines window in it.   According to PF's wind map, the wind was approaching from the N.N.W  Madeleines bedroom window wall faced N.N.W... so a moveable force (the wind rolling down towards the sea), met an immovable barrier *the bedroom wall).   It was a totally square on clash.  The wind had to take the easiest route through or round the outside of the building



But in my hypothesis of how the whooshing happened:

1)  The curtains were cheap light weight and flimsy.  We know that from photographs we have seen

2)  The abduction had happened and there was a small gap, an opening, in Madeleines window, which the abductor had opened for some purpose

3)   For a real draught to form, there had to be an opening on another side of the building.  I believe it perfectly probable that the parents had left their bedroom window slightly ajar to cool the bedroom after the heat from the days sun shining into it had made it uncomfotrtably warm.  It faced south and no shading balcony above
or,

4)   a man left via the parents patio window having heard (or warned) that Kate was coming in, or was aready in.



Perhaps some of you will remember that pre central heating days, we used to us a draw plate at the opening of the fireplace.  This was to creat a draught from a relatively small unit of wind coming into the room.   The amazing thing was the smaller the gap between the plate and the fireplace surround (within reason) the bigger the draught to spread the matches flame.  The drauht was condensed/compressed air, made by forcing a larger volume of slow moving air through a constriction into an acual draught.  It moved faster. 


There is a scientic name for this phenomena.  It is over 60 years since I learned but I think it is called the venturi effect (but then it could be the Berolli effect ... not sure now)



Architects know all about this phenomena and have to factor it in when designing skyscrappers and long walled buildings of size.  Winds can get so high in some cities that people cannot cross the street and some vehicles get blown around.



I propose that because,

... of this effect mentioned above

... and the higher pressure north of the building trying to equalise with that south of the building,

... when a gust came, and simultaneously as Kate adjusted the door to a smaller gap, which then narrowed to the optimum size, a sudden draught formed and lifted the flimsy curtains.   This was simultaneous with the door slamming to.   The easiest route for the wind was thru that open mindow to the lower pressure area to the rear of the building., it had to go left or right or up several storeys ... or thru that little bedroom window.  It chose the easiest.

It also needed a gap at the rear of the building to normalise..
 

There has been speculation that the abductor exited by that route, via the parents patio wimdow ... and also there is a very real likelyhood that the parents patio door had been cracked open in order to cool their bedroom down for sleeping


Remember the wind was coming from N.N.W. and the outside wall was exactly at right angles to that.  Perfect situation.



Perfect conditions with the parents bedroom door cracked open, or a side window left open, for such a draft and slamming of the door as Kate describes.





Please do not get all in a fizz; 'tis only a hypotheses.  Only a hypotheses, but very plausible, with only the uncertainty about whether the parents patio door, or a rear lounge window, was open, probably to cool the place down




There is something else I need to mention, if I can get round to it.

[pathfinder73]

Normal kids routine changed hours before Madeleine was reported to be missing. The children did not go to the play area. This time is crucial to the case because the two witnesses involved disagreed on what actually happened at 18:30 on 3 May 2007. How this episode has never been fully investigated is incompetence at it's best by SY!

[Holly Goodhead]

Normal kids routine changed hours before Madeleine was reported to be missing. The children did not go to the play area. This time is crucial to the case because the two witnesses involved disagreed on what actually happened at 18:30 on 3 May 2007. How this episode has never been fully investigated is incompetence at it's best by SY!

It seems many episodes have not been full investigated eg we are told by a witness that a Mr Christopher Tranmer visited PF on 3rd May leaving at circa 6.30 pm but afaik none of the authorities tasked with investigating have taken a statement from this individual.  And yet this was someone that apparently was literally right above 5A only a couple of hours or so before MM disappeared off the face of the earth. 

[pathfinder73]

"18H30, the time at which he saw DP next to the tennis court. DAVID went to visit KATE and the children and returned close to 19H00." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

"He thinks that David offered to check if Kate needed help, which he did, and returned minutes later. Regarding his previous statement where he states that David returned half an hour later around 19:00, he says that he returned to the tennis court after half an hour, as this time frame refers to the second time he returned to the tennis court after getting ready for the game." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

"Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes. After showering, at around 6:30/6:40PM and while she was getting dry, she heard somebody knocking at the veranda door. She wrapped herself in a towel and went to see who it was. This door was closed but not locked as Gerry had left by this door. She confirmed it was David Payne, because he called out and had opened the door slightly. David's visit was to help her to take the children to the recreation area. When David returned from the beach he was with Gerry at the tennis courts, and it was Gerry who asked him to help Kate with taking the children to the recreation area." https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

DP - Gerry had asked me just to pop in and check everything was alright err with Kate or you know again I can't remember the exact reason.

1485 "Did you open the door, slid door' Or was it already open' Or''
 Reply "Err I think it was already open, I think it was already open.

1485 "Did you actually go into the apartment''
 Reply "I did.'

1485 "Or did you do the conversation from the door''
 Reply "No, definitely was inside the apartment, you know whether it be two or three steps into the apartment or you know however many, but I was definitely in the apartment.'

00:41:00 1485 "Okay, so now what I'm gonna try and ask you to recollect, what everybody was wearing.'
 Reply "I'm afraid that is, you know I'm, I cannot recall at all. I know that's, you'd think that'd be an obvious thing to remember, I cannot remember. As I say the, from the children point of view predominantly I can remember the, you know, white, but I couldn't say exactly what they were wearing. Err''
 1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''
 Reply "I can't, no.'

1485 "And did you actually set eyes on each individual child''
 Reply "All three children I saw, yeah.'

1485 "And were they standing up' Sitting down''
 Reply "Err they were generally standing up, yeah.'

1485 "Did they actually acknowledge you''
 Reply "Err oh yeah, you know I'm very sure that if you'd have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they'd all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we'd all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I'd be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she'd definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.'

1485 "Yeah. Was that the last time you saw Madeleine''
 00:42:39 Reply "It was.'

1485 "How many minutes, you said as a matter of minutes and then you went back and then you played tennis.'
 Reply "Mm.'

1485 "I'm gonna pin you down and ask you how long you think you were in there for. I know you say minutes.'
 Reply "In their apartment, it, it, I'd say three minutes, five maximum.'

1485 "Three to five''
 Reply "Yeah.'

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

So Gerry said it was David's decision to visit the apartment. Kate says it was Gerry who asked David to go. David  said it was Gerry who told him to drop in. Kate said the patio door was closed. David said it was open when he entered the apartment but couldn't remember what Kate was wearing. Contradiction after contradiction between the last 3 witnesses who saw Madeleine only hours before she disappeared and it's still not fully investigated   

[Holly Goodhead]

According to the following witness a "breeze" was present on night of 3rd May:

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-DE-SILVA.htm

[G-Unit]

Post 170 refers to cheap light-weight and flimsy curtains in 5A. In my opinion the window coverings were professionally made with pelmets, tie backs and lined curtains. They look like they were bespoke, not bought off-the-shelf. It would have been a false economy to skimp on the fabric after paying for professionally made curtains.

[sadie]

According to the following witness a "breeze" was present on night of 3rd May:

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-DE-SILVA.htm

" the night was good with a "breeze"", Maria says.

For a local to make a point of saying that in her statement, it must have been significant.  Breezes at the sea side tend to be gusty.

Thanks for finding that, Holly.

[sadie]

Post 170 refers to cheap light-weight and flimsy curtains in 5A. In my opinion the window coverings were professionally made with pelmets, tie backs and lined curtains. They look like they were bespoke, not bought off-the-shelf. It would have been a false economy to skimp on the fabric after paying for professionally made curtains.

They looked presentable, but the nets were very flimsy as you would expect ... and the way that the curtains hung makes me think they were there more for decoration than for keeping light in or out.  They look shoddy; cheap and cheerful, but flimsy

After all:

They had shutters for blocking the light and real privacy






And let's not forget how Matt described the colour of the light coming thru.  With such pale outside liighting they must have been very thin and lightweight.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Curtains deffo look flimsy and cheap to me.  Nothing in that apartment shrieks “quality” so it would be odd if the curtains were bespoke and expensive.  IMO.

[Eleanor]

Curtains deffo look flimsy and cheap to me.  Nothing in that apartment shrieks “quality” so it would be odd if the curtains were bespoke and expensive.  IMO.

I am always shocked by how cheap and not very cheerful it is.  I frequently stayed in Val de Lobo which was gloriously splendid.