Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?

[Robittybob1]

Looking again at Pilditch's Leveson evidence he seemed very aware that his stories were in danger of being libellous;

Due to the restrictions of the Portuguese law; anyone who was unhappy about something that had been written or said about them and wished to take legal action would almost certainly have been successful...

Upon filing each story it would have been viewed by the News Editor of the day and a lawyer.
http://www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Witness-Statement-of-David-Pilditch.pdf

So its seems that either these lawyers give the wrong advice, or their advice was ignored; many, many times.

Can a claim of libel be made following evidence given under oath?   

[jassi]

Can a claim of libel be made following evidence given under oath?

Archer gave evidence under oath that was later shown to be untrue and he was sent to prison for perjury.

[G-Unit]

Can a claim of libel be made following evidence given under oath?

Libel was claimed and paid for in February 2008. Leveson took place in 2011. My point is that journalists writing stories on the McCann case in 2007/08 seem to have known at the time that their stories could lead to a libel claim. If they knew then the Express Group lawyers must have known too. So the profits made by the Express Group must have been enormous if it was worth that risk.

[Brietta]

Libel was claimed and paid for in February 2008. Leveson took place in 2011. My point is that journalists writing stories on the McCann case in 2007/08 seem to have known at the time that their stories could lead to a libel claim. If they knew then the Express Group lawyers must have known too. So the profits made by the Express Group must have been enormous if it was worth that risk.

Actually ... if memory serves me well ... this particular off topic discussion had nothing at all to do with libel.  It had all to do with your defence of the indefensible with your denial that the Portuguese police leaked propaganda to the Portuguese press as a matter of course and as their way of getting around the secrecy laws which they should have been defending not blatantly flouting.

We know about it as a result of what happened in Madeleine McCann's case.  Just as we know it is a tactic which was used in Joana Cipriano's case.

Goncalo Amaral 'outed' himself when he was caught at it in flagrante delicto resulting in his dismissal from Madeleine's case.
All confirmed chapter and verse in the Netflix documentary by the journalist Sandra Felgueiras who was in Praia da Luz from the day after Madeleine's disappearance and who was used as a conduit throughout by Amaral for such rubbish as 'calpol' and 'the dogs' and any other fantasy which was passing through his febrile brain as he scented another filicide conviction to add to his belt.

Without the energy expended by Amaral providing adverse copy against Madeleine's parents for the Portuguese press one wonders if Madeleine's case might not have had a very different result.

[Robittybob1]

Libel was claimed and paid for in February 2008. Leveson took place in 2011. My point is that journalists writing stories on the McCann case in 2007/08 seem to have known at the time that their stories could lead to a libel claim. If they knew then the Express Group lawyers must have known too. So the profits made by the Express Group must have been enormous if it was worth that risk.

"Libel was claimed and paid for in February 2008."  Did you cite that?   I have not followed the discussion in detail, I'm sorry if you have to repeat yourself.

[G-Unit]

Actually ... if memory serves me well ... this particular off topic discussion had nothing at all to do with libel.  It had all to do with your defence of the indefensible with your denial that the Portuguese police leaked propaganda to the Portuguese press as a matter of course and as their way of getting around the secrecy laws which they should have been defending not blatantly flouting.

We know about it as a result of what happened in Madeleine McCann's case.  Just as we know it is a tactic which was used in Joana Cipriano's case.

Goncalo Amaral 'outed' himself when he was caught at it in flagrante delicto resulting in his dismissal from Madeleine's case.
All confirmed chapter and verse in the Netflix documentary by the journalist Sandra Felgueiras who was in Praia da Luz from the day after Madeleine's disappearance and who was used as a conduit throughout by Amaral for such rubbish as 'calpol' and 'the dogs' and any other fantasy which was passing through his febrile brain as he scented another filicide conviction to add to his belt.

Without the energy expended by Amaral providing adverse copy against Madeleine's parents for the Portuguese press one wonders if Madeleine's case might not have had a very different result.

We are indeed off topic, largely as a response to this post;
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11155.msg570433#msg570433

We know that Amaral spoke to a journalist because he said he did. Sandra Felgueira also said he gave her information, although it took her a very long time to share that.

British journalists believed that Portuguese journalists were getting information from PJ officers, but none of them could prove it; that's why the McCanns were able to sue Express Group Newspapers.

It seems clear to me that there was leaking going on, and it wasn't all from the PJ. The following Express story, for example, seems to have come from Metodo 3, and it's not truthful and correct;

A MAN resembling suspect Robert Murat tried to snatch a child from the apartment where Madeleine McCann went missing, a new witness has claimed.

A British nanny has told police that she caught the intruder trying to climb through the ground floor window while a baby slept inside.

In a statement to detectives she described him as looking like Murat, 34, who was named as an official suspect after Madeleine vanished on May 3.

The woman, who asked not to be named, had left a baby sleeping in the apartment at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz. She returned and scared off the prowler.

She has given details of the incident in December last year to Metodo 3, the Spanish private detective agency hired by the McCanns, to find their daughter...
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/i-saw-man-like-murat-try-to-kidnap-a-child-26-11-0-t15244.html#p210809

[G-Unit]

"Libel was claimed and paid for in February 2008."  Did you cite that?   I have not followed the discussion in detail, I'm sorry if you have to repeat yourself.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/mar/19/dailyexpress.dailystar

[Brietta]

We are indeed off topic, largely as a response to this post;
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11155.msg570433#msg570433

We know that Amaral spoke to a journalist because he said he did. Sandra Felgueira also said he gave her information, although it took her a very long time to share that.

British journalists believed that Portuguese journalists were getting information from PJ officers, but none of them could prove it; that's why the McCanns were able to sue Express Group Newspapers.

It seems clear to me that there was leaking going on, and it wasn't all from the PJ. The following Express story, for example, seems to have come from Metodo 3, and it's not truthful and correct;

A MAN resembling suspect Robert Murat tried to snatch a child from the apartment where Madeleine McCann went missing, a new witness has claimed.

A British nanny has told police that she caught the intruder trying to climb through the ground floor window while a baby slept inside.

In a statement to detectives she described him as looking like Murat, 34, who was named as an official suspect after Madeleine vanished on May 3.

The woman, who asked not to be named, had left a baby sleeping in the apartment at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz. She returned and scared off the prowler.

She has given details of the incident in December last year to Metodo 3, the Spanish private detective agency hired by the McCanns, to find their daughter...
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/i-saw-man-like-murat-try-to-kidnap-a-child-26-11-0-t15244.html#p210809

I truly don't think you have checked back far enough to find where the thread went off topic.  For example there were at least two prior posts with reference to "propaganda" one of which emanated from your good self.

Mind you maybe 'propaganda' might actually not have been too far off the mark as far as the thread title is concerned as quite a bit of devious tittle tattle has been spread over the years of every aspect of the events of the third.

Many thanks for your link which I think may actually be on topic with "what is the truth?" of the title, which in my opinion has all to do with the lies repeated by Express journalists and printed by the newspaper.
Probably explains why big bucks paid and apologies made for libel.

The link you provided is also in my opinion an absolutely prime example of the well tried and tested art of the PJ propaganda technique of leaking information which has just a vestige of the truth about it but is in effect smoke and mirrors deception.

Didn't you notice there is absolutely nothing in the article attributable to any source whatsoever ...
 Snip

• a new witness has claimed
• A British nanny has told police ...
• The woman, who asked not to be named ...
• She has given details of the incident in December last year to Metodo 3 ...
• A source linked to Metodo 3 said that the nanny told detectives ...
• She gave a detailed description of the man who the detectives say is identical to Robert Murat, " said the source.
• A Portuguese lorry driver said ...
• A second witness - a Spanish tourist - came forward to claim ...
• Last night a friend insisted she was at the meeting ...
• He said: " ...
• The friend added: ...

Following on from that list of unattributed trash on which you set much store in your post, is the one attributed statement in the whole piece made by the McCann spokesman and reads as follows ...
Last night Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' official spokesman said the couple had not spoken publicly about Murat or anyone being investigated. They would continue to refuse to comment during the inquiry. He said: "We continue to work closely with Metodo 3 and collectively we are always careful about what detail enters the public domain for operational reasons."

________________________________________________

I believe I'm right in thinking that Metodo 3 operated throughout in the full knowledge of the Policia Judiciaria and shared all relevant information with them ...
Snip
On the 13th of the current year, in the presence of the signatory and inspectors Paulo Ferreira and Ricardo Paiva, a meeting was held, in this department, with Brian Kennedy, the director of the detective company, Francisco Marco and an advisor of this same company, Antonio Jimenez, ex-chief of the Kidnapping Unit of Catalan.

________________________________________________

During the course of this meeting, the director of METODO 3 gave us a small book (attached), with information relative to the disappearance of the minor. This information, as we were told, was received via telephone and that they had already opened a line in Spain, specifically to receive and deal with information.

In this book, written in Spanish, we can analyse three pieces of information:

1. In the first case, we observed that there was report of facts which occurred in August/September of 2006, and which appears to us somewhat extemporaneous, as it cannot now be related to the material under investigation.
2. In the second point, we should remember that the computers of Sergey Malinka were searched and that nothing of suspicion was found there or related to paedophilia.
3. In that which concerns the third point, we are currently carrying out diligences with the intent to confirm or disprove the related information.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIAN-KENNEDY.htm

[G-Unit]

I truly don't think you have checked back far enough to find where the thread went off topic.  For example there were at least two prior posts with reference to "propaganda" one of which emanated from your good self.

Mind you maybe 'propaganda' might actually not have been too far off the mark as far as the thread title is concerned as quite a bit of devious tittle tattle has been spread over the years of every aspect of the events of the third.

Many thanks for your link which I think may actually be on topic with "what is the truth?" of the title, which in my opinion has all to do with the lies repeated by Express journalists and printed by the newspaper.
Probably explains why big bucks paid and apologies made for libel.

The link you provided is also in my opinion an absolutely prime example of the well tried and tested art of the PJ propaganda technique of leaking information which has just a vestige of the truth about it but is in effect smoke and mirrors deception.

Didn't you notice there is absolutely nothing in the article attributable to any source whatsoever ...
 Snip

• a new witness has claimed
• A British nanny has told police ...
• The woman, who asked not to be named ...
• She has given details of the incident in December last year to Metodo 3 ...
• A source linked to Metodo 3 said that the nanny told detectives ...
• She gave a detailed description of the man who the detectives say is identical to Robert Murat, " said the source.
• A Portuguese lorry driver said ...
• A second witness - a Spanish tourist - came forward to claim ...
• Last night a friend insisted she was at the meeting ...
• He said: " ...
• The friend added: ...

Following on from that list of unattributed trash on which you set much store in your post, is the one attributed statement in the whole piece made by the McCann spokesman and reads as follows ...
Last night Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' official spokesman said the couple had not spoken publicly about Murat or anyone being investigated. They would continue to refuse to comment during the inquiry. He said: "We continue to work closely with Metodo 3 and collectively we are always careful about what detail enters the public domain for operational reasons."

________________________________________________

I believe I'm right in thinking that Metodo 3 operated throughout in the full knowledge of the Policia Judiciaria and shared all relevant information with them ...
Snip
On the 13th of the current year, in the presence of the signatory and inspectors Paulo Ferreira and Ricardo Paiva, a meeting was held, in this department, with Brian Kennedy, the director of the detective company, Francisco Marco and an advisor of this same company, Antonio Jimenez, ex-chief of the Kidnapping Unit of Catalan.

________________________________________________

During the course of this meeting, the director of METODO 3 gave us a small book (attached), with information relative to the disappearance of the minor. This information, as we were told, was received via telephone and that they had already opened a line in Spain, specifically to receive and deal with information.

In this book, written in Spanish, we can analyse three pieces of information:

1. In the first case, we observed that there was report of facts which occurred in August/September of 2006, and which appears to us somewhat extemporaneous, as it cannot now be related to the material under investigation.
2. In the second point, we should remember that the computers of Sergey Malinka were searched and that nothing of suspicion was found there or related to paedophilia.
3. In that which concerns the third point, we are currently carrying out diligences with the intent to confirm or disprove the related information.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIAN-KENNEDY.htm

I was speaking of Kate McCann's attempts to discredit the Portuguese Judiciary by suggesting their methods were inadequate. There is no proof that Pilditch was repeating PJ propaganda. He admitted only that he was repeating stories given to him by Portuguese journalists and an interpreter which he thought came from the PJ.

'A source linked to Metodo 3' was quoted in the link I provided, so it was the McCann's PI's who leaked that story, not the PJ imo. Metodo 3 requested a meeting with the PJ and gave them some information, but recieved nothing in return. As they were operating in Spain they were outside Portuguese jurisdiction.

The story I linked to was a work of speculation and fiction.

[Mr Gray]

I was speaking of Kate McCann's attempts to discredit the Portuguese Judiciary by suggesting their methods were inadequate. There is no proof that Pilditch was repeating PJ propaganda. He admitted only that he was repeating stories given to him by Portuguese journalists and an interpreter which he thought came from the PJ.

'A source linked to Metodo 3' was quoted in the link I provided, so it was the McCann's PI's who leaked that story, not the PJ imo. Metodo 3 requested a meeting with the PJ and gave them some information, but recieved nothing in return. As they were operating in Spain they were outside Portuguese jurisdiction.

The story I linked to was a work of speculation and fiction.

Sandra Figiurass' statement on netflix that amaral lied to her is pretty damning....the claim that the PJ only read the first paragraph of the FSS report....is also pretty damning of the portuguese investigation. You seem to be in total denial

[G-Unit]

Sandra Figiurass' statement on netflix that amaral lied to her is pretty damning....the claim that the PJ only read the first paragraph of the FSS report....is also pretty damning of the portuguese investigation. You seem to be in total denial

Who is Sandra Figiurass?

[Mr Gray]

Who is Sandra Figiurass?

if you dont know you re wasting my time and yours...you obviously cant address the point in the post

[barrier]

Archer gave evidence under oath that was later shown to be untrue and he was sent to prison for perjury.

Then had to pay pack a tidy sum with interest.

[G-Unit]

if you dont know you re wasting my time and yours...you obviously cant address the point in the post

I see no reason why I should respond to a poster who doesn't appear to know the names of the people he's posting about.

[Mr Gray]

I see no reason why I should respond to a poster who doesn't appear to know the names of the people he's posting about.

Then don't respond.... You know exactly who I am talking about and have made a childish post...the way things are you'll wait 24 hrs for the next post