Author Topic: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?  (Read 73074 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #330 on: January 23, 2020, 08:18:02 PM »
This thread is slightly off topic, but as it evolved the off topic discussion seemed rather too interesting to close it down.  The theme of "what is the truth still" is still there in the current discussion.  So I'm not disappointed for my original query had been covered sufficiently.

Sandra Felgueiras  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Felgueiras
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 08:21:12 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Brietta

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #331 on: January 23, 2020, 08:21:55 PM »
I was speaking of Kate McCann's attempts to discredit the Portuguese Judiciary by suggesting their methods were inadequate. There is no proof that Pilditch was repeating PJ propaganda. He admitted only that he was repeating stories given to him by Portuguese journalists and an interpreter which he thought came from the PJ.

'A source linked to Metodo 3' was quoted in the link I provided, so it was the McCann's PI's who leaked that story, not the PJ imo. Metodo 3 requested a meeting with the PJ and gave them some information, but recieved nothing in return. As they were operating in Spain they were outside Portuguese jurisdiction.

The story I linked to was a work of speculation and fiction.

I am terribly sorry but one of the main problems I find in the substance of your posts is your continually repeated denial when challenged that you didn’t actually say what your original post very clearly says you said.

I pointed out that your link “was a work of speculation and fiction” in the classic tradition of almost all the PJ traducing of the McCann propaganda being released about that time.
You used it as your cite for the claim …
Quote
It seems clear to me that there was leaking going on, and it wasn't all from the PJ. The following Express story, for example, seems to have come from Metodo 3, and it's not truthful and correct;

A MAN resembling suspect Robert Murat tried to snatch a child from the apartment where Madeleine McCann went missing, a new witness has claimed.

A British nanny has told police that she caught the intruder trying to climb through the ground floor window while a baby slept inside.

In a statement to detectives she described him as looking like Murat, 34, who was named as an official suspect after Madeleine vanished on May 3.

The woman, who asked not to be named, had left a baby sleeping in the apartment at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz. She returned and scared off the prowler.

She has given details of the incident in December last year to Metodo 3, the Spanish private detective agency hired by the McCanns, to find their daughter...  End Quote

Nothing there regarding your claim against Kate McCann (using the cite you now rubbish … ???) and a total body swerve of the only attributed quote in the whole sorry mish mash of innuendo which happens to be from the McCann spokesman which instead denies categorically that neither Kate McCann nor Metodo 3 had any locus in the leaks which you now claim to be “a work of speculation and fiction”.

Decidedly odd.

However not as odd as another Express journalist picking up on and using information which Metodo 3 had passed to the Judicial Police –
I saw man like Murat try to kidnap a child
Daily Express
From Nick Fagge in Praia da Luz
26 November 2007

Perhaps it would be worth your while to access Nick Fagge’s Leveson testimony which details more than once the sources he used (some of which he shared with Pilditch and no doubt the rest of the guys) during his stints in Praia da Luz for the express as …
  • In general terms, the articles are based on reports of the case in the Portuguese press,
  • information from the wide variety of contacts I was able to develop in Portugal (including Portuguese journalists and members of the community in Praia da Luz)
  • and statements provided by the McCanns’ spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, from whom I sought comment for each story I wrote

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122164429/http://www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Witness-Statement-of-Nick-Fagge.pdf

You will note that Kate McCann and Metodo 3 are conspicuous only by their absence from these sworn testimonies therefore once again you are promoting your opinion and innuendo as fact without so much as a smidgen of proof for backup.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #332 on: January 23, 2020, 08:26:42 PM »
This thread is slightly off topic, but as it evolved the off topic discussion seemed rather too interesting to close it down.  The theme of "what is the truth still" is still there in the current discussion.  So I'm not disappointed for my original query had been covered sufficiently.

Sandra Felgueiras  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Felgueiras

These things just have a way of taking off, Rob, and I agree with you its a good idea just to let it take its course even loosely (editors permitting) particularly since there is little going on in this board at the moment,
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #333 on: January 23, 2020, 10:10:11 PM »
I am terribly sorry but one of the main problems I find in the substance of your posts is your continually repeated denial when challenged that you didn’t actually say what your original post very clearly says you said.

I pointed out that your link “was a work of speculation and fiction” in the classic tradition of almost all the PJ traducing of the McCann propaganda being released about that time.
You used it as your cite for the claim …
Quote
It seems clear to me that there was leaking going on, and it wasn't all from the PJ. The following Express story, for example, seems to have come from Metodo 3, and it's not truthful and correct;

A MAN resembling suspect Robert Murat tried to snatch a child from the apartment where Madeleine McCann went missing, a new witness has claimed.

A British nanny has told police that she caught the intruder trying to climb through the ground floor window while a baby slept inside.

In a statement to detectives she described him as looking like Murat, 34, who was named as an official suspect after Madeleine vanished on May 3.

The woman, who asked not to be named, had left a baby sleeping in the apartment at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz. She returned and scared off the prowler.

She has given details of the incident in December last year to Metodo 3, the Spanish private detective agency hired by the McCanns, to find their daughter...  End Quote

Nothing there regarding your claim against Kate McCann (using the cite you now rubbish … ???) and a total body swerve of the only attributed quote in the whole sorry mish mash of innuendo which happens to be from the McCann spokesman which instead denies categorically that neither Kate McCann nor Metodo 3 had any locus in the leaks which you now claim to be “a work of speculation and fiction”.

Decidedly odd.

However not as odd as another Express journalist picking up on and using information which Metodo 3 had passed to the Judicial Police –
I saw man like Murat try to kidnap a child
Daily Express
From Nick Fagge in Praia da Luz
26 November 2007

Perhaps it would be worth your while to access Nick Fagge’s Leveson testimony which details more than once the sources he used (some of which he shared with Pilditch and no doubt the rest of the guys) during his stints in Praia da Luz for the express as …
  • In general terms, the articles are based on reports of the case in the Portuguese press,
  • information from the wide variety of contacts I was able to develop in Portugal (including Portuguese journalists and members of the community in Praia da Luz)
  • and statements provided by the McCanns’ spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, from whom I sought comment for each story I wrote

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122164429/http://www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Witness-Statement-of-Nick-Fagge.pdf

You will note that Kate McCann and Metodo 3 are conspicuous only by their absence from these sworn testimonies therefore once again you are promoting your opinion and innuendo as fact without so much as a smidgen of proof for backup.

The story I quoted was the same one by Nick Fagge and he says;

A source linked to Metodo 3 said that the nanny told detectives she caught a man trying to climb in through a window of apartment 5A - the apartment later occupied by the McCanns.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/i-saw-man-like-murat-try-to-kidnap-a-child-26-11-0-t15244.html#p210809

The story he wrote led to Murat urging the McCanns to stop the smears against him and his girlfriend. As I think the stories came from Metodo 3, I agree with Murat that the McCanns could have stopped them if they had wanted to.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/murat-urges-madeleine-mccann-s-family-to-stop-25-1-t7531.html
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Offline Brietta

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #334 on: January 24, 2020, 01:08:34 AM »
The story I quoted was the same one by Nick Fagge and he says;

A source linked to Metodo 3 said that the nanny told detectives she caught a man trying to climb in through a window of apartment 5A - the apartment later occupied by the McCanns.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/i-saw-man-like-murat-try-to-kidnap-a-child-26-11-0-t15244.html#p210809

The story he wrote led to Murat urging the McCanns to stop the smears against him and his girlfriend. As I think the stories came from Metodo 3, I agree with Murat that the McCanns could have stopped them if they had wanted to.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/murat-urges-madeleine-mccann-s-family-to-stop-25-1-t7531.html

You appear to be having an argument with yourself ... and if you don't find that confusing I most certainly do.

Or is it your contention that the same lies you sneered at when reported by Nick Fagge become less of a lie by repetition in another source ??

How on earth do you suppose anyone other than the source of the propaganda and lies against the McCanns being leaked to Portuguese journalists by the Judicial Police could possibly have any say in their cessation.
You appear to be in denial of the way in which the press in Portugal was and perhaps for all we know still is manipulated by the PJ.
Perhaps you might like to take issue regarding that with the likes of Portuguese media personalities such as Sandra Felgueiras who I'm sure would be able to put you straight.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #335 on: January 24, 2020, 08:57:55 AM »
You appear to be having an argument with yourself ... and if you don't find that confusing I most certainly do.

Or is it your contention that the same lies you sneered at when reported by Nick Fagge become less of a lie by repetition in another source ??

How on earth do you suppose anyone other than the source of the propaganda and lies against the McCanns being leaked to Portuguese journalists by the Judicial Police could possibly have any say in their cessation.
You appear to be in denial of the way in which the press in Portugal was and perhaps for all we know still is manipulated by the PJ.
Perhaps you might like to take issue regarding that with the likes of Portuguese media personalities such as Sandra Felgueiras who I'm sure would be able to put you straight.

The PJ had no interest in the story told by Margaret Hall, so why would they bother leaking it? Even if they did, why would they try to suggest that she identified Murat as the man she saw, and that she found him trying to climb through the front window of 5A?

I think Murat was correct; the source of this story was Metodo 3 and it was designed to focus attention and suspicion on Murat and away from the McCanns. The PJ had no interest in doing that in November 2007.

In my opinion this was pro-McCann propaganda by Metodo 3 and they did nothing to stop it.
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Offline barrier

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #336 on: January 24, 2020, 09:25:49 AM »
The PJ had no interest in the story told by Margaret Hall, so why would they bother leaking it? Even if they did, why would they try to suggest that she identified Murat as the man she saw, and that she found him trying to climb through the front window of 5A?

I think Murat was correct; the source of this story was Metodo 3 and it was designed to focus attention and suspicion on Murat and away from the McCanns. The PJ had no interest in doing that in November 2007.

In my opinion this was pro-McCann propaganda by Metodo 3 and they did nothing to stop it.

Oh! come on G, metodo aren't all bad they'll have Madeleine home by Christmas,must be the next one though.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Brietta

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #337 on: January 24, 2020, 03:34:32 PM »
The PJ had no interest in the story told by Margaret Hall, so why would they bother leaking it? Even if they did, why would they try to suggest that she identified Murat as the man she saw, and that she found him trying to climb through the front window of 5A?

I think Murat was correct; the source of this story was Metodo 3 and it was designed to focus attention and suspicion on Murat and away from the McCanns. The PJ had no interest in doing that in November 2007.

In my opinion this was pro-McCann propaganda by Metodo 3 and they did nothing to stop it.

It appears you have proved fertile ground for the PJ propaganda trick I described in an earlier post of introducing a smidgen of truth to the particular ‘message’ or tall tales of their invention.

By the way … why did you mention Margaret Hall?

Indeed …
  • she does exist
  • she did work as a nanny
  • she did look after a sleeping child in the apartment from which Madeleine vanished a few moths later
  • she did have a frightening encounter with a stranger outside the apartment
Where in the cites you have provided is she anything other than the convenient and anonymous coat hook on which to hang a tale of denigration which has manipulated your opinion exactly as it was intended to do all those years ago but which retains its potency and poison still to feed to the unwary. 

Margaret Hall’s true story bears little relation to the fictitious nanny’s tale ~ I doubt she had ever set eyes on Robert Murat who doesn’t look remotely like the man who frightened Margaret so and who she described as follows …
Snip
She said the man was aged between 25 - 35 years, with a Mediterranean aspect with tight black curly hair. She is certain that he had a Mediterranean accent, surely Portuguese.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARGARET_HALL.htm

I think that Margaret Hall's statement should have been taken seriously and checked for its relevance or otherwise to the inquiry. According to you the PJ showed no interest in Margaret Hall.   
In this instance under discussion though her existence proved its worth to them for the propaganda purposes which you believe to this day and for which there is no provenance but anonymous tittle tattle leaked in recognised fashion into the public domain.
Pity they weren’t as good at the day job of checking out witness statements such as Margaret Hall’s to their conclusion instead of "showing no interest" .

The Judicial Police wouldn’t have used propaganda if it didn’t work and they certainly were/are good at it … you are the proof of their capability of promoting their expertise without the necessity of going to the trouble of having to provide even one iota of proof.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 03:38:34 PM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #338 on: January 24, 2020, 04:33:32 PM »
The PJ had no interest in the story told by Margaret Hall, so why would they bother leaking it? Even if they did, why would they try to suggest that she identified Murat as the man she saw, and that she found him trying to climb through the front window of 5A?

I think Murat was correct; the source of this story was Metodo 3 and it was designed to focus attention and suspicion on Murat and away from the McCanns. The PJ had no interest in doing that in November 2007.

In my opinion this was pro-McCann propaganda by Metodo 3 and they did nothing to stop it.

this is something you have no evidence for so is...in your words....a complete guess. You are continually guilty of such guesses....have you noticed...speculation and guesswork seem to be your forte
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 04:39:45 PM by Davel »

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #339 on: January 24, 2020, 05:42:29 PM »
The PJ had no interest in the story told by Margaret Hall, so why would they bother leaking it? Even if they did, why would they try to suggest that she identified Murat as the man she saw, and that she found him trying to climb through the front window of 5A?

I think Murat was correct; the source of this story was Metodo 3 and it was designed to focus attention and suspicion on Murat and away from the McCanns. The PJ had no interest in doing that in November 2007.

In my opinion this was pro-McCann propaganda by Metodo 3 and they did nothing to stop it.
Shame hardly anyone’s interested in your opinion isn’t it?  Oh well.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #340 on: January 24, 2020, 06:01:38 PM »
The PJ had no interest in the story told by Margaret Hall, so why would they bother leaking it? Even if they did, why would they try to suggest that she identified Murat as the man she saw, and that she found him trying to climb through the front window of 5A?

I think Murat was correct; the source of this story was Metodo 3 and it was designed to focus attention and suspicion on Murat and away from the McCanns. The PJ had no interest in doing that in November 2007.

In my opinion this was pro-McCann propaganda by Metodo 3 and they did nothing to stop it.
This thread is certainly becoming interesting.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #341 on: January 24, 2020, 06:13:05 PM »
This thread is certainly becoming interesting.

What I find interesting is how some people are suggesting that this story came from the PJ, when Nick Fagge clearly says it came from Metodo 3.

A source linked to Metodo 3 said that the nanny told detectives she caught a man trying to climb in through a window of apartment 5A - the apartment later occupied by the McCanns.

"He was trying to get in through the exact same window which police believe Madeleine's abductors may have used. She gave a detailed description of the man who the detectives say is identical to Robert Murat, " said the source.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/i-saw-man-like-murat-try-to-kidnap-a-child-26-11-0-t15244.html#p210809
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #342 on: January 24, 2020, 06:30:05 PM »
What I find interesting is how some people are suggesting that this story came from the PJ, when Nick Fagge clearly says it came from Metodo 3.

A source linked to Metodo 3 said that the nanny told detectives she caught a man trying to climb in through a window of apartment 5A - the apartment later occupied by the McCanns.

"He was trying to get in through the exact same window which police believe Madeleine's abductors may have used. She gave a detailed description of the man who the detectives say is identical to Robert Murat, " said the source.
https://themaddiecasefiles.com/i-saw-man-like-murat-try-to-kidnap-a-child-26-11-0-t15244.html#p210809

you may find it interesting ....it is simply of no importance whatsoever
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 04:38:39 PM by Robittybob1 »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #343 on: January 24, 2020, 07:14:44 PM »
you may find it interesting ....it is simply of no importance whatsoever

Those who like to lambast the PJ for 'leaking' don't like to accept that pro-McCann propaganda was being fed to the press, but neither can they disprove it.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 04:39:25 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Visits to the play area after tea. What is the truth?
« Reply #344 on: January 24, 2020, 07:23:07 PM »
Those who like to lambast the PJ for 'leaking' don't like to accept that pro-McCann propaganda was being fed to the press, but neither can they disprove it.
I like to lambast the Pj for leaking (why the inverted commas?) and I don’t care one way or the other if Metodo 3  were leaking, they were not supposed to be upholders of the law after all.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".