Author Topic: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?  (Read 298615 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1830 on: July 27, 2020, 09:11:50 AM »
Perhaps one of those pedants * amongst us would like to start a new thread to discuss English grammar and anything else along those lines which takes their fancy.
I am riveted ** to everything 'doggie' as in 'dogs don't etc etc' on this thread ... and really object to it being taken Off Topic.

* pedant
/ˈpɛd(ə)nt/
Learn to pronounce
noun
plural noun: pedants
a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning.
"the royal palace (some pedants would say the ex-royal palace)"
Similar:
dogmatist
purist
literalist
formalist
doctrinaire
precisionist
perfectionist
quibbler
hair-splitter
casuist
sophist
fault-finder
caviller
carper
nitpicker
pettifogger
precisian
Dryasdust

** rivet
/ˈrɪvɪt/
Learn to pronounce
verb
past tense: riveted; past participle: riveted
1.
join or fasten (plates of metal) with a rivet or rivets.
"the linings are bonded, not riveted, to the brake shoes for longer wear"
2.
hold (someone or something) fast so as to make them incapable of movement.
"the grip on her arm was firm enough to rivet her to the spot"
Similar:
fixed
rooted
frozen
unable to move
motionless
unmoving
immobile
stock-still
as still as a statue
as if turned to stone
attract and completely engross (someone).
"he was riveted by the newsreels shown on television"
Similar:
fascinated
engrossed
gripped
captivated
enthralled
intrigued
spellbound
rapt
mesmerized
transfixed
fascinating
gripping
engrossing
very interesting
very exciting
thrilling
absorbing
captivating
enthralling
intriguing
compelling
compulsive
spellbinding
mesmerizing
hypnotic
transfixing
unputdownable
Opposite:
bored
uninterested
boring
dull
direct (one's eyes or attention) intently.
"all eyes were riveted on him"
Similar:
fixed on
fastened on
focused on
concentrated on
pinned on
locked on
directed at
Origin

Perhaps we should seek to correctly define what we mean by dogs - is that the canine variety or the low down dirty type like CB?  And alerts - what exactly is an alert and how can you tell an alert from a dog merely clearing his throat, or looking at you in a wry manner?  We as a nation have been implored by our esteemed government to "Stay Alert" but how?  Barking every time we see someone not wearing a mask?  And then there's the tricky word "evidence" which should never be confused with the word "proof".   Here's one definition: "one or more reasons for believing that something is or is not true" or not, as the thread title asks. 

The above post may or may not be an example of "wry" humour - let's have a heated debate about it!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 09:14:08 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1831 on: July 27, 2020, 09:13:00 AM »
Why do you crave warnings?
Masochist tendencies innit.  Punish me baby, punish me, I LOVE it.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Lace

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1832 on: July 27, 2020, 10:37:08 AM »
That would be correct if the police were searching at the same time.


When are they supposed to have put Madeleine in the wardrobe?   I am confused you see,  if Gerry found Madeleine behind the sofa and decided to whiz off to hide her somewhere on the beach,  to collect later,  or to take her to a freezer to collect later,  why put her in the wardrobe first?   Some say she was in the bag in the wardrobe,  but that was photographed in the wardrobe later on so that can't be true.

Offline kizzy

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1833 on: July 27, 2020, 10:46:01 AM »

When are they supposed to have put Madeleine in the wardrobe?   I am confused you see,  if Gerry found Madeleine behind the sofa and decided to whiz off to hide her somewhere on the beach,  to collect later,  or to take her to a freezer to collect later,  why put her in the wardrobe first?   Some say she was in the bag in the wardrobe,  but that was photographed in the wardrobe later on so that can't be true.

Its all confusing..

The full case IMO is surrounded in secrets and lies.

Offline Brietta

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1834 on: July 27, 2020, 10:57:09 AM »
Its all confusing..

The full case IMO is surrounded in secrets and lies.

There is nothing secretive or lying about the so called 'dog evidence'.  We have watched the videos of them in action and can make up our own minds.

We also have the dog handler's own words giving proper guidance on exactly how to interpret the indications given and which led the PJ investigators and Prosecutors to discard the erroneous conclusions made by Amaral et al.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1835 on: July 27, 2020, 11:08:36 AM »

When are they supposed to have put Madeleine in the wardrobe?   I am confused you see,  if Gerry found Madeleine behind the sofa and decided to whiz off to hide her somewhere on the beach,  to collect later,  or to take her to a freezer to collect later,  why put her in the wardrobe first?   Some say she was in the bag in the wardrobe,  but that was photographed in the wardrobe later on so that can't be true.
Also, if she was put in a bag in the wardrobe then why did he take her out of the bag to carry her corpse uncovered through town?  Surely carrying a bag is less suspicious than a child's corpse, especially when you're just about to go on TV to tell the world that the child whose body you've been carrying is missing.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1836 on: July 27, 2020, 12:12:53 PM »

When are they supposed to have put Madeleine in the wardrobe?   I am confused you see,  if Gerry found Madeleine behind the sofa and decided to whiz off to hide her somewhere on the beach,  to collect later,  or to take her to a freezer to collect later,  why put her in the wardrobe first?   Some say she was in the bag in the wardrobe,  but that was photographed in the wardrobe later on so that can't be true.
The apartment was unattended for large periods of time.  We don't know if a body was in the wardrobe, we certainly don't know who it was. When it was put there or by whom.
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Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1837 on: July 28, 2020, 11:03:23 PM »

When are they supposed to have put Madeleine in the wardrobe?   I am confused you see,  if Gerry found Madeleine behind the sofa and decided to whiz off to hide her somewhere on the beach,  to collect later,  or to take her to a freezer to collect later,  why put her in the wardrobe first?   Some say she was in the bag in the wardrobe,  but that was photographed in the wardrobe later on so that can't be true.

Just playing devils advocate and I don't suggest this is what happened but some McCann sceptics might believe the death occurred before they went to the Tapas Bar on May 3rd. MM's body may then have been placed (out of sight) in the cupboard while a clean up took place in the apartment.

McCann supporters on the other hand might say Eddie was alerting to someone's Grandad's ashes or dirty nappies or maybe but maybe not alerting to blood from a nosebleed that might or might not have happened.

What time was this tennis bag photographed in the wardbrobe? Why wouldn't it be back there in either scenario above?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1838 on: July 28, 2020, 11:17:09 PM »
Just playing devils advocate and I don't suggest this is what happened but some McCann sceptics might believe the death occurred before they went to the Tapas Bar on May 3rd. MM's body may then have been placed (out of sight) in the cupboard while a clean up took place in the apartment.

McCann supporters on the other hand might say Eddie was alerting to someone's Grandad's ashes or dirty nappies or maybe but maybe not alerting to blood from a nosebleed that might or might not have happened.

What time was this tennis bag photographed in the wardbrobe? Why wouldn't it be back there in either scenario above?
It was there that night when the PJ arrived and took photos around 2:00 - 3:00 AM but IMO isn't there the next day.
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline sadie

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1839 on: July 29, 2020, 11:38:13 PM »
The apartment was unattended for large periods of time.  We don't know if a body was in the wardrobe, we certainly don't know who it was. When it was put there or by whom.

What body in what wardrobe Rob and Lace too ?

Grime made it clear that Eddie alerted outside the wardrobe NOT in it.

Imo opinion it was at a scent on the wall, quite high up.  Well beyond Keelas ability to reach it.

Grime thinks that Eddie alerted in the corner near the wardrobe, but having watched the video several times  , I think that it was more likely above a previous bedside table, where is likely Tasmin  Silences Grandpas ashes were stored in an urn.

According to Grime, Eddie did not alert in the wardrobe, but fairly high up outside.  Keela only checked inside the wardrobe and not the corner or wall outside.   So soz, guys, we shall never know what Eddie was alerting to, cos' Keela sniffed the wrong place.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1840 on: July 29, 2020, 11:53:31 PM »
What body in what wardrobe Rob and Lace too ?

Grime made it clear that Eddie alerted outside the wardrobe NOT in it.

Imo opinion it was at a scent on the wall, quite high up.  Well beyond Keelas ability to reach it.

Grime thinks that Eddie alerted in the corner near the wardrobe, but having watched the video several times  , I think that it was more likely above a previous bedside table, where is likely Tasmin  Silences Grandpas ashes were stored in an urn.

According to Grime, Eddie did not alert in the wardrobe, but fairly high up outside.  Keela only checked inside the wardrobe and not the corner or wall outside.   So soz, guys, we shall never know what Eddie was alerting to, cos' Keela sniffed the wrong place.
When I say "body" I mean "body in a suitcase/bag".
I said we don't know if there was a body in the wardrobe.  So you can't ask me "What body in what wardrobe Rob?"   I always thought if there was a body it wasn't Madeleine.  I think Madeleine ran out of the apartment disturbed by someone else in there. 

IMO Whoever put that body in there without Kate knowing, removed it after the PJ left that morning.  So who had access to the apartment?  The McCanns were up in the Payne's apartment, I hope you agree, so it was unlikely to be them and they had handed their key over to the PJ.

The bag is on the night time photo but not there in the next daytime photo.  It appears to have been removed, hence Goncarlo looking for it.

"Grime made it clear that Eddie alerted outside the wardrobe NOT in it."  That's OK but there is clear video footage of Keela actually checking inside the wardrobe.

"Imo opinion it was at a scent on the wall, quite high up.  Well beyond Keela's ability to reach it."  Possible  but who knows for sure?

« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 12:03:12 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Lace

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1841 on: July 31, 2020, 05:00:57 PM »
What scent would still be in the apartment three months after Madeleine disappeared?    If you take into account that the body does not release any gas in the first stage of decomposition,  then what is supposed to be wafting about in the apartment?

Offline Lace

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1842 on: July 31, 2020, 05:07:07 PM »
What body in what wardrobe Rob and Lace too ?

Grime made it clear that Eddie alerted outside the wardrobe NOT in it.

Imo opinion it was at a scent on the wall, quite high up.  Well beyond Keelas ability to reach it.

Grime thinks that Eddie alerted in the corner near the wardrobe, but having watched the video several times  , I think that it was more likely above a previous bedside table, where is likely Tasmin  Silences Grandpas ashes were stored in an urn.

According to Grime, Eddie did not alert in the wardrobe, but fairly high up outside.  Keela only checked inside the wardrobe and not the corner or wall outside.   So soz, guys, we shall never know what Eddie was alerting to, cos' Keela sniffed the wrong place.


I was being sarcastic Sadie,  there are some who say Madeleine was in the bag in the wardrobe.

Offline Lace

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1843 on: July 31, 2020, 05:11:35 PM »
Just playing devils advocate and I don't suggest this is what happened but some McCann sceptics might believe the death occurred before they went to the Tapas Bar on May 3rd. MM's body may then have been placed (out of sight) in the cupboard while a clean up took place in the apartment.

McCann supporters on the other hand might say Eddie was alerting to someone's Grandad's ashes or dirty nappies or maybe but maybe not alerting to blood from a nosebleed that might or might not have happened.

What time was this tennis bag photographed in the wardbrobe? Why wouldn't it be back there in either scenario above?


I don't believe for one minute that Madeleine could have died before the McCann's went to dinner.   Gerry was out playing tennis!!  They laughed and joked right the way through dinner Jeremy said Gerry sounded normal when he chatted to him,  they could never have acted like that if Madeleine was dead in the apartment.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1844 on: July 31, 2020, 08:10:13 PM »

I was being sarcastic Sadie,  there are some who say Madeleine was in the bag in the wardrobe.
It doesn't even have to be Madeleine, it could be anybody.   Now that someone like Christian B is involved, a serial offender, it is anyone's guess as to what he could have done prior  abducting Madeleine.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.