Author Topic: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4  (Read 84184 times)

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Offline mrswah

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Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #270 on: February 04, 2020, 10:12:01 AM »
Bamber painted himself into a corner with that 3 AM call. It excluded the possibility of a 3rd party being involved because if he was telling the truth, there was no need to lie about the contents of that phone call.

Nevertheless, it didn't stop him a few years ago from raising the possibility of a 3rd party, someone he knows cannot possibly exist because his own phone call narrowed it down to either him or Sheila! It's practically an admission of guilt.

He's so guilty as hell, it's not even up for debate any more. I can't believe that as recently as 2011 I was still sitting on the fence...


What got you off the fence, Steve?

Offline steve_trousers

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #271 on: February 04, 2020, 10:52:17 AM »
Hard to pin it one thing - but I think the phone call from WHF was key, it sounds plausible enough at first but when you thoroughly scrutinise it there are so many holes in his tale about the phone call - from Nevilll Bamber leafing through the yellow pages under a shower of bullets looking for the police telephone number instead of simply dialling 999 to the fact that he himself introduced the theory of a 3rd party killer when he knows that person cannot exist because Nevill told him during the phone call that "Sheila had gone crazy and got the gun" If he is innocent why lie about the phone call?

I'm not sure if I posted this link the other day, but this is the best objective article I have seen on the case and sums the FACTS logically and coherently. It was originally on the hearts and coronets website and someone kindly reposted it here (over several posts) http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=922.0
It's all in there...

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #272 on: February 04, 2020, 11:51:38 AM »
It does nothing of the sort!  No matter how many times you parrot your imaginary evidence, it won't make it real.  You've dug a hole so deep for yourself that you now find it impossible to climb out and see reason. Sorry Holly, but you are wrong.

Nevill was a wartime Mosquito pilot trained in the use of firearms and a lifelong shooter, who accidentally blinded his father-in-law Leslie Speakman's eye with a bullet that rebounded off a tree.  So he was very well aware of the damage they could cause. That this fit veteran would allow his daughter to sneak past him with a loaded rifle and murder his wife and grandsons upstairs, while he wasted precious minutes on a rotary dial phone trying to kindle a sleeping log is frankly, unbelievable.

Yes it does!  By imaginery evidence I assume you mean the physical evidence at soc?  The fact a reconstruction hasn't taken place to date doesn't mean it's not going to happen in the future.  Had JB's trial been half decent a team of experts comprising of ballistics, biologist, pathologist and soc analysts would have mapped out in WHF exactly who was shot where and where the perp stood when he/she fired as in the case of farmer Tony Martin @ 46.44:

https://youtu.be/BemcOAg53eM

The ballistics expert, Freddie Mead, acted for the defense at JB's trial which begs the question why a reconstruction wasn't carried out during the trial?

Jill Dando sustained 1 gunshot wound on her doorstep.  During BG's trial jurors were taken to the soc. WHF involved 25/26 gunshots and 5 fatalities and yet for whatever reason(s) the jury was not taken to WHF.

What has NB's wartime experience got to do with anything?  He was with his mentally ill daughter not engaged in military conflict.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #273 on: February 04, 2020, 12:00:55 PM »
It did beg the question, the jury would have pondered the question. Julie Mugford came clean, took the stand and the jury believed her. Her testimony "had the ring of truth about it"

Judging from Nicholas' post on page 14, she would do the same again tomorrow.

No one knows what weight jurors attribute to the various aspects of a case.  In this case we know the judge warned jurors over its reliability.  And we know jurors questions to the judge related solely to the blood/silencer.

In any event in terms of an appeal it is the blood/silencer that will ultimately undermine JB's conviction resulting in acquittal. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #274 on: February 04, 2020, 12:09:51 PM »
Yes it does!  By imaginery evidence I assume you mean the physical evidence at soc?  The fact a reconstruction hasn't taken place to date doesn't mean it's not going to happen in the future.  Had JB's trial been half decent a team of experts comprising of ballistics, biologist, pathologist and soc analysts would have mapped out in WHF exactly who was shot where and where the perp stood when he/she fired as in the case of farmer Tony Martin @ 46.44:

https://youtu.be/BemcOAg53eM

The ballistics expert, Freddie Mead, acted for the defense at JB's trial which begs the question why a reconstruction wasn't carried out during the trial?

Jill Dando sustained 1 gunshot wound on her doorstep.  During BG's trial jurors were taken to the soc. WHF involved 25/26 gunshots and 5 fatalities and yet for whatever reason(s) the jury was not taken to WHF.

What has NB's wartime experience got to do with anything?  He was with his mentally ill daughter not engaged in military conflict.

It's more than a little arrogant to make these claims given that the conclusions have been determined from a few amateur detectives on IA. The crime scene doesn't show that Bamber was innocent, far from it and his subsequent playing with the times - quite the opposite. How would a reconstruction put the gun in Sheila's hands? It could tell you where someone stood, but not who stood there. Also, the fact that Sheila's hand is still resting on the gun is highly suspicious - try it yourself, place your hand in the position and then totally relax.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #275 on: February 04, 2020, 12:11:27 PM »
Hard to pin it one thing - but I think the phone call from WHF was key, it sounds plausible enough at first but when you thoroughly scrutinise it there are so many holes in his tale about the phone call - from Nevilll Bamber leafing through the yellow pages under a shower of bullets looking for the police telephone number instead of simply dialling 999 to the fact that he himself introduced the theory of a 3rd party killer when he knows that person cannot exist because Nevill told him during the phone call that "Sheila had gone crazy and got the gun" If he is innocent why lie about the phone call?

I'm not sure if I posted this link the other day, but this is the best objective article I have seen on the case and sums the FACTS logically and coherently. It was originally on the hearts and coronets website and someone kindly reposted it here (over several posts) http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=922.0
It's all in there...

With respect Steve I haven't seen you post anything that's remotely scientific or capable of being measured objectively.

The soc contained a mountain of hard data none of which has been measured but thankfully is still available for objective analysis.

In terms of the blood/silencer again hard data can be reproduced by simply looking at the physics, fluid mechanics and biology to determine:

- whether the blood flake could withstand the environments and still produce the blood group results claimed.

- whether the physics/fluid mechanics of rifle/silencer/cartridges combi were capable of producing the drawback phenomenon as the prosecution claimed.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #276 on: February 04, 2020, 12:22:51 PM »
With respect Steve I haven't seen you post anything that's remotely scientific or capable of being measured objectively.

The soc contained a mountain of hard data none of which has been measured but thankfully is still available for objective analysis.

In terms of the blood/silencer again hard data can be reproduced by simply looking at the physics, fluid mechanics and biology to determine:

- whether the blood flake could withstand the environments and still produce the blood group results claimed.

- whether the physics/fluid mechanics of rifle/silencer/cartridges combi were capable of producing the drawback phenomenon as the prosecution claimed.

We have been here before - do you know how many times those kind of experiments would need to be replicated in order to determine if the blood flake in the silencer is down to chance or a deliberate act? And as for the flake, you couldn't repeat the original conditions because we don't exactly know them and we don't have the original materials. For all those experiments, just one that produced similar results would render the whole thing null.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #277 on: February 04, 2020, 12:25:44 PM »
It's more than a little arrogant to make these claims given that the conclusions have been determined from a few amateur detectives on IA. The crime scene doesn't show that Bamber was innocent, far from it and his subsequent playing with the times - quite the opposite. How would a reconstruction put the gun in Sheila's hands? It could tell you where someone stood, but not who stood there. Also, the fact that Sheila's hand is still resting on the gun is highly suspicious - try it yourself, place your hand in the position and then totally relax.

I think you will find I'm the originator of the soc reconstruction. It was first discussed here and then on IA. Why arrogant?  I've simply connected all the dots that others for whatever reason(s) haven't.  If others disagree then they're free to counter my arguments.

JB has never needed to demonstrate his innocence.  If defendants needed to demonstrate innocence half the population would be in prison. 

Soc construction is important because the physical evidence at soc puts perp in bedroom shooting June and NB on the landing when he sustained his facial shots.  Which in turn supports JB's claim of a call from NB ie NB in kitchen phoning JB, NB hears gunshots from perp shooting June, NB runs upstairs and sustains the facial shots on the landing. He turns to retreat downstairs and sustains the gunshot wounds to his rear on the stairs.

There's no reliable evidence of SC's found position evidenced by A/PS Woodcock's wit stat, and others, who have SC's head wedged up against the bedside cabinet and soc images that show her head flat to the floor.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #278 on: February 04, 2020, 12:30:58 PM »
We have been here before - do you know how many times those kind of experiments would need to be replicated in order to determine if the blood flake in the silencer is down to chance or a deliberate act? And as for the flake, you couldn't repeat the original conditions because we don't exactly know them and we don't have the original materials. For all those experiments, just one that produced similar results would render the whole thing null.

For those who believe JB guilty I assume they haven't been in contact with forensic scientists and the like? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #279 on: February 04, 2020, 12:39:38 PM »
For those who believe JB guilty I assume they haven't been in contact with forensic scientists and the like?

You’re in a tiny minority Holly

What difference would it make?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 12:42:02 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #280 on: February 04, 2020, 12:39:54 PM »
And if the prosecution had nothing to hide it begs the question why trial exhibits were destroyed against all judicial protocols.  At JB's 2002 appeal hearing the judges were so perturbed by this they were going to order an investigation as to how this came about but instead decided to rule in JB's favour if required.

Destroying exhibits have deprived him of advancing his case.  Eg new technology which enables fingerprints to be recovered from cartridges would have determined whether SC or JB's prints were on them.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #281 on: February 04, 2020, 12:40:36 PM »
You’re in a tiny minority Holly

Do you have any data to back up your assertion?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #282 on: February 04, 2020, 12:42:28 PM »
And if the prosecution had nothing to hide it begs the question why trial exhibits were destroyed against all judicial protocols.  At JB's 2002 appeal hearing the judges were so perturbed by this they were going to order an investigation as to how this came about but instead decided to rule in JB's favour if required.

Destroying exhibits have deprived him of advancing his case.  Eg new technology which enables fingerprints to be recovered from cartridges would have determined whether SC or JB's prints were on them.

https://youtu.be/UwiHV7nnG8g
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Nicholas

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #283 on: February 04, 2020, 12:43:54 PM »
Do you have any data to back up your assertion?

Your posts on the forum  8((()*/
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Caroline

Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4
« Reply #284 on: February 04, 2020, 12:52:58 PM »
I think you will find I'm the originator of the soc reconstruction. It was first discussed here and then on IA. Why arrogant?  I've simply connected all the dots that others for whatever reason(s) haven't.  If others disagree then they're free to counter my arguments.

JB has never needed to demonstrate his innocence.  If defendants needed to demonstrate innocence half the population would be in prison. 

Soc construction is important because the physical evidence at soc puts perp in bedroom shooting June and NB on the landing when he sustained his facial shots.  Which in turn supports JB's claim of a call from NB ie NB in kitchen phoning JB, NB hears gunshots from perp shooting June, NB runs upstairs and sustains the facial shots on the landing. He turns to retreat downstairs and sustains the gunshot wounds to his rear on the stairs.

There's no reliable evidence of SC's found position evidenced by A/PS Woodcock's wit stat, and others, who have SC's head wedged up against the bedside cabinet and soc images that show her head flat to the floor.

It's arrogant because without any qualifications on the subject you're claiming big things.

The perp being on the landing doesn't support a call at all. All it proves is that prior to being the kitchen, Nevill was upstairs - nothing more.

Not sure what you mean by the last point?