Order of killings

[steve_trousers]

They might if they didn't recognise the voice.

True, which is why it makes sense to scream at her bank robbery style and keep her as terrified as possible. In my opinion

[Holly Goodhead]

I didn’t say you did. I was replying Steve but it didn’t include the quote.

I prefer to study the facts and the evidence which forensically says she didn’t have enough trace of copper to have reloaded. No damage to hands or nails that would indicate a fight. Barely any blood on hands. Barely any prints on gun. Nothing on feet to suggest being anywhere in kitchen. No damage to face to indicate being in a fight. 🤷🏻‍♂️

There is no such forensic test based on copper to determine whether or not someone handled cartridges hence none of the independent forensic service providers offer such testing.

There's no evidence a fight took place.

There was so little blood on the rifle it wasn't even possible to group so why would you expect blood on SC's hands?

What would you expect to find on SC's feet and why?

[Holly Goodhead]

True, which is why it makes sense to scream at her bank robbery style and keep her as terrified as possible. In my opinion

But you're claiming JB screamed at SC not a bank robber.

[steve_trousers]

But you're claiming JB screamed at SC not a bank robber.

Exactly. I don't think he would have softly requested "get down sis, get down and the kids won't get hurt".

The grim nights work needed to be over and done with quickly

[Inspector Gadget]

There is no such forensic test based on copper to determine whether or not someone handled cartridges hence none of the independent forensic service providers offer such testing.

There's no evidence a fight took place.

There was so little blood on the rifle it wasn't even possible to group so why would you expect blood on SC's hands?

What would you expect to find on SC's feet and why?

According to the Supreme Court of appeal 2002 her hands and feet appeared clean according officers first on the scene and then hands were bagged and later tested in a lab in which minimal traces of copper were found which wasn’t in line with the amount of shots fired and reloads taken place. Point 46-50 on the official court of appeal doc for your ref. (It won’t let me link it here)

[Holly Goodhead]

Re the testing of SC's hands I would point out that tests undertaken by Brian Elliot at FSS are completely unscientific and invalid.

And much of the evidence provided by the so-called ballistics expert at FSS, Malcolm Fletcher, contradicts with experts from US.  At the time of JB's trial MF told the court he had 13 years experience in the firearms dept and a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy.  He did not say what exactly his 13 years entailed in the firearms dept nor did he tell the court about any formal qualifications, membership of professional bodies etc.

The UK gov has acknowledged failings at the Home Office run Forensic Science Service during the 80's.  What it has yet to recognise is that these failings played a significant part in JB's conviction!

3.3.1

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmsctech/writev/forensic/m61.htm

[steve_trousers]

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

It's all there. Her majesty versus Bamber.

[Holly Goodhead]

According to the Supreme Court of appeal 2002 her hands and feet appeared clean according officers first on the scene and then hands were bagged and later tested in a lab in which minimal traces of copper were found which wasn’t in line with the amount of shots fired and reloads taken place. Point 46-50 on the official court of appeal doc for your ref. (It won’t let me link it here)

I'm familiar with the doc thanks.

The only valid scientific test used to determine whether someone discharged a firearm is a test for gunshot residue which wasn't used in this case.  All tests for other elements eg lead, copper are invalid.

[Inspector Gadget]

Re the testing of SC's hands I would point out that tests undertaken by Brian Elliot at FSS are completely unscientific and invalid.

And much of the evidence provided by the so-called ballistics expert at FSS, Malcolm Fletcher, contradicts with experts from US.  At the time of JB's trial MF told the court he had 13 years experience in the firearms dept and a small amount of experience with an air rifle as a small boy.  He did not say what exactly his 13 years entailed in the firearms dept nor did he tell the court about any formal qualifications, membership of professional bodies etc.

The UK gov has acknowledged failings at the Home Office run Forensic Science Service during the 80's.  What it has yet to recognise is that these failings played a significant part in JB's conviction!

Can you point out exactly where it says Brian Elliott’s tests were invalid? And if so why hasn’t this been challenged since 2002?

3.3.1

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmsctech/writev/forensic/m61.htm

[Inspector Gadget]

I'm familiar with the doc thanks.

The only valid scientific test used to determine whether someone discharged a firearm is a test for gunshot residue which wasn't used in this case.  All tests for other elements eg lead, copper are invalid.

“I’m familiar with the doc thanks” such an arrogant and prickly reply. Are you ok? You seem a bit touchy. Maybe let me just hear from the pro guilty people if it winds you up so much. Because he is 100% guilty so I’m just trying to get peoples opinion on what order they think the murders went down, not about whether he is guilty or not (as per my original post). I already know he is guilty hence why he has been locked in a cage for the last 30+ years 👍🏻:-)

[Holly Goodhead]

“I’m familiar with the doc thanks” such an arrogant and prickly reply. Are you ok? You seem a bit touchy. Maybe let me just hear from the pro guilty people if it winds you up so much. Because he is 100% guilty so I’m just trying to get peoples opinion on what order they think the murders went down, not about whether he is guilty or not (as per my original post). I already know he is guilty hence why he has been locked in a cage for the last 30+ years 👍🏻:-)

Not prickly at all just pointing out I'm offay with the doc.  However please refrain from making comments of a personal nature.

And my initial posts on this thread were completely non-partisan.

[Holly Goodhead]

https://www.justicedirectory.co.uk/directory/forensic-services/

For those who believe the tests carried out on SC's hands were valid scientific tests I've uploaded a directory of UK forensic service providers and invite anyone to identify a provider offering such tests.

[Inspector Gadget]

Not prickly at all just pointing out I'm offay with the doc.  However please refrain from making comments of a personal nature.

And my initial posts on this thread were completely non-partisan.

Not prickly at all just pointing out I'm offay with the doc.  However please refrain from making comments of a personal nature.

And my initial posts on this thread were completely non-partisan.

Non partisan lol. That’s a good one. Let me know where it says that specific piece of evidence is invalid please ? And also what order you think he (or acomplice) massacred that poor family.

[Holly Goodhead]

Non partisan lol. That’s a good one. Let me know where it says that specific piece of evidence is invalid please ? And also what order you think he (or acomplice) massacred that poor family.

I will not ask you a third time to refrain from making comments of a personal nature.

The fact something is quoted in the CoA doc doesn't make it factually correct.

I do not believe JB was responsible.

[Inspector Gadget]

I will not ask you a third time to refrain from making comments of a personal nature.

The fact something is quoted in the CoA doc doesn't make it factually correct.

I do not believe JB was responsible.

Personal? What are you talking about?? What bit is personal? I know you don’t think he is responsible hence why I am not really interested in on your views on my post. I won’t ask you a third time but please let this post for pro guilty people to comment on as that is who I directed MY post at. Thank you 👍🏻