The phone call

[G-Unit]

The phone call to Jeremy is one of the strangest things I have ever heard of.

Bamber having his answering machine switched off.

Nevill choosing to ring him at 3am. Then wait several minutes for Bamber to wake from sleeping 'like a log' decide to answer, then go downstairs.

After waiting a long time for the phone to be answered, Nevill then says 9 words in less than 5 seconds.

He needed to get his message across then go and try to calm Sheila.

[Holly Goodhead]

That's interesting G-unit, where did you read that?
Robert Boutflour was so suspicious of Jeremy that when he saw Jeremy asking Sheila to try loading the gun just before the murders, his first thoughts were that he was trying to get her fingerprints all over the magazine. This was before he knew what would transpire

Who else was party to this?

[Holly Goodhead]

I can't think why, if it had been just that, he'd have needed to call Jeremy, given that he couldn't have been certain that Jeremy would even answer the phone immediately. How long might he have been prepared to hang on given that there was allegedly an unstable woman with a gun on the loose?

NB was called by SC's friend prior to her last admittance to St Andrews psychiatric hospital to let him know SC was having a psychotic episode.  NB's response was he could not get there until the following day.  When NB arrived the following day he drove her straight to St Andrews. 

[steve_trousers]

Who else was party to this?

June Bamber was witness to this. Sheila had fudged the attempt at loading the final bullet into the magazine.

According to expectation.

[Holly Goodhead]

They didn't have to identify the window, by Bambers own admission, he could enter via a window.

I don't know how you can't see that a reconstruction doesn't identify the killer?

Kenneth Noye being found 'not guilty' is clearly a problem for your notion that the jury should visit the scene.

JB has never said he could exit a window and then secure it from outside.  Most people could probably enter by using various tools to lift a catch.

I've never said a reconstruction will identify the killer.  What it will do is show the correct position of NB and perp when NB sustained his upstairs gsw's.  To date no expert evidence has been made available.  I believe a reconstruction will place NB on the landing stairs with the perp already in the bedroom which then throws a different light on the case.

Why is KN being found not guilty a problem for my notion that a jury should visit the soc?   Many high profile cases involve jurors taken to soc and other sites to enable them to understand the defence and prosecution.

In this case jurors needed to visit WHF in order for the prosecution to demonstrate what it was asserting about the window.  The fact the judge told jurors it didn't matter just shows the whole trial was a sham.

[Holly Goodhead]

June Bamber was witness to this. Sheila had fudged the attempt at loading the final bullet into the magazine.

According to expectation.

How do you know June was witness to it?

I thought Pamela Boutflour was also present but she did not recall the incident?

[Holly Goodhead]

People suggest Nevill's call was so short because he was interrupted. However Nevill's words do summarise the situation. The phone did not go dead mid sentance.

Bamber could elaborate on Nevill's 9 words to the police outside WHF -  'come over', 'Sheila', 'gone crazy' 'got the gun'.

Nevill and Bamber having a phone conversation would give suspiscious people more chance to pick holes in what was said. Sheila was also supposed to be going crazy.

No one has claimed NB invited JB over.

"Sheila's gone crazy she's got the gun"

[Holly Goodhead]

S
Ha, ha! Sorry - I did think I had that wrong but couldn't be arsed to check.

OK - there should have been 25 left but there were 30 

This is an assumption on your part that the perp used cartridges from those JB tipped out on the kitchen top earlier when in reality the perp may have used cartridges from another source eg bag of ammo in cupboard or any left hanging around elsewhere.

Some of the casings had marks on showing they had been loaded into the magazine on a previous occassion(s).

[Holly Goodhead]

I agree that he was on the stairs/landing but it doesn't put a phone in his hand and no trajectory is going to do that for you. I believe he was on the stairs because Bamber came back before Nevill went to bed, he waited until Nevill was out of the way to give him time to shoot the twins and June and shot Nevill as he came upstairs. I can no more prove this, than you can your theory of the phone call. Nevill on the stairs, DOES NOT identify the killer.

As it stands the prosecution has argued NB sustained his upstairs gsw's in the bedroom therefore how could he have made a tel call when a) the pathologist said his facial injuries were such he was incapable of purposeful speech and b) the injuries produced heavy blood loss internally and externally and the phone showed no visible signs of blood staining.

I believe a reconstruction will show NB was shot on landing/stairs and this puts a different complexion on the phone call ie NB was on phone to JB, dropped the phone and came up the stairs where he was shot in the face.

JB's car was heard leaving WHF circa 9.30pm.  What time do you think he returned and how in terms of mode of transport?

[Holly Goodhead]

On page 106 of Lee's book there's a reference to Nevill's firearms licence. A constable visited and said he was meticulous in the safekeeping of his weapons, keeping them in a padlocked cupboard. Was that normal or was he usually less meticulous?

Where did the visit take place and who was the constable?

There's no evidence of any padlocked cupboard.  Firearms were found all over the place: shotgun left against wall of downstairs office, hundreds of rounds of ammo in cupboard under stairs, NB's nephew, Anthony Pargeter, stored his firearms in the downstairs bathroom and 1 or 2 firearm(s) were found in an unused staircase.  All were readily accessible to anyone in the farmhouse.

[Holly Goodhead]

Where did the visit take place and who was the constable?

There's no evidence of any padlocked cupboard.  Firearms were found all over the place: shotgun left against wall of downstairs office, hundreds of rounds of ammo in cupboard under stairs, NB's nephew, Anthony Pargeter, stored his firearms in the downstairs bathroom and 1 or 2 firearm(s) were found in an unused staircase.  All were readily accessible to anyone in the farmhouse.

I would imagine the first thought that went thru NB's mind was OMG if the police get involved how the hell do I explain all these firarms/ammo left lying around, accessible to anyone, including my mentally ill daughter!

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm not familiar with her book, rather with the earlier works such as Wilkes excellent book. Perhaps Lee is skilfully trying to keep the killers identity open at that point, I don't know.

However, I would take any reference to their having a close or loving relationship with a dose of salt. His supporters pounce on anything and twist it to back up the ridiculous premise that Nevill would cry to Jeremy for help rather than simply disarm Sheila, or at a stretch call the Police.
If Jeremy was on the trustees of WHF and had been taken to meetings of NMG, it only tells me that Jeremy was his son and employee, not that they were close.

By all accounts the difficult relationship seemed to between SC and June evidenced by SC's psychiatric reports.

[G-Unit]

Where did the visit take place and who was the constable?

There's no evidence of any padlocked cupboard.  Firearms were found all over the place: shotgun left against wall of downstairs office, hundreds of rounds of ammo in cupboard under stairs, NB's nephew, Anthony Pargeter, stored his firearms in the downstairs bathroom and 1 or 2 firearm(s) were found in an unused staircase.  All were readily accessible to anyone in the farmhouse.

The book doesn't say, but it's quite possible it was an arranged visit to check that the security attangements were in place because that's a condition of a firearms licence. As you say, keeping the guns safe wasn't something Nevill paid attention to on a daily basis, there were guns everywhere. On 18th July Neville picked up a rifle and some ammunition from that same settle where Jeremy left a rifle on the day of the shootings, according to Robert Boutflower. Gun safety wasn't a priority in that house imo.
[Lee's book page 137]

[Holly Goodhead]

Listen and you can understand why a suppressor was used in the farmhouse.

What was the velocity of the cartridges used in the vid?  The cartridges used at WHF are subsonic.

Have you heard the sound difference with and without sound moderator? 

[Caroline]

Colin Caffell saw the father and son as very close, sharing a similar sense of humour. Nevill had asked the Trustees to include Jeremy on the tenancy of WHF and began taking him to meetings of Northern Maldon Growers.

This was some time before the murders, in months reseeding, they were seen to argue.