The phone call

[G-Unit]

Okay, so you seem to be saying that, unless you see confirmation/affirmation? of some of your more "ludicrous" points in black and white, they aren't valid? Am I correct? I can tell you that I'm fairly well surrounded -less so now so much time has passed- by contemporaries with Nevill and June. One in particular has given me very clear descriptions of what they've witnessed between Jeremy and Nevill. Nevill was fully aware that Jeremy couldn't be relied upon to complete a job or do what he was asked, ergo, it makes it extremely unlikely that he'd have called him in a crisis. The only reason you won't see these testaments in black and white is because they were never asked.

If you're convinced that's fine. You surely don't really expect others to be convinced by what you've been told by these unnamed individuals?

[APRIL]

If you're convinced that's fine. You surely don't really expect others to be convinced by what you've been told by these unnamed individuals?

No more than I expect some to be convinced by named ones. There's nowt as perverse as folks.

[Caroline]

Of course they would have been

How can you think otherwise?!

It was NOTED there was no blood, sugar or glass on her feet, so do you seriously think they wouldn’t have checked all her footwear?

Really?

The slippers were mens.

[Caroline]

There's no call to be insulting. Sheila Caffell was a very disturbed and emotionally unstable woman. Her efforts to be independent had failed miserably and now her mother wanted her to enter some sort of home in Bournemouth. That's a fout hour drive from her parents and a two hour drive from her children. It certainly isn't stupid to suggest that she had some type of breakdown that night. Her future wasn't looking bright.

It was a convalescent home - not an asylum! She was also an adult and didn't have to go. If she didn't want to go, Colin would have supported her. He had no intention of separating her from her children!

[Caroline]

So because the defence didn't suggest something you deduce it couldn't have happened?

There was no reason for such a call.

[Caroline]

You say that it's 'ludicrous' to suggest that Nevill would 'squeal' to Jeremy. That tells me nothing about what Nevill and Jeremy's relationship was like, it just tells me what you believe it was like.

OK. Prove beyond reasonable doubt that the phone call never took place.

That wouldn't be possible as far as you're concerned. It's unreasonable that Nevill would have called Jeremy. Had he called prior to the shooting, there was no reason to call because he could have de-escalated the situation himself and he also had June to help him. She wouldn't have remained in bed in a situation like that. If the shooting had started, he wouldn't have taken time out to call Jeremy, if anyone, he's have called the police but his main concern would have been to get the gun from Sheila.

[G-Unit]

It was a convalescent home - not an asylum! She was also an adult and didn't have to go. If she didn't want to go, Colin would have supported her. He had no intention of separating her from her children!

She had no independent means so her choices were limited. I don't think her ex husband was in a position to support her financially, and neither would he have wanted to. He (or she) who pays the piper calls the tune.

[Caroline]

She had no independent means so her choices were limited. I don't think her ex husband was in a position to support her financially, and neither would he have wanted to. He (or she) who pays the piper calls the tune.

Given that you're all about evidence - please provide evidence that Sheila was being blackmailed into going the the convalescent home? Because that is what you seem to be implying - "go or we will cut you off"?

[ISpyWithMyEye]

So because the defence didn't suggest something you deduce it couldn't have happened?

The reason the defence didn’t suggest Nevill rang Jeremy prior to being shot is that they didn’t want to shine a spotlight on Jeremy’s obvious lie.

You’re suggesting Sheila went berserk with the gun upstairs, then Nevill, instead of disarming her — which he easily could have and most certainly would have — decided to leave his wife and grandchildren in immediate grave danger — walked downstairs also leaving himself an easy target for Sheila to shoot him in the back of his head — and rang Jeremy to ask himto disarm Sheila instead. And you expect people to believe that?

You’re then suggesting that Nevill left himself an open target by phoning Jeremy, and that Sheila, instead of storming into the kitchen and shooting Nevill dead as he held the phone, managed to march him back upstairs so she could shoot him up there instead?

You’re also suggesting that Sheila was going berserk yet when she saw Nevill speaking on the phone, she didn’t shout in a crazy fashion; didn’t say a word; Jeremy didn’t hear a whisper coming from his “deranged sister”, she just gently and quietly cut the call off with one hand...

And you’re suggesting she did that while holding that long rifle in just one hand, giving Nevill such easy opportunity to disarm her, but instead of swiftly disarming her he allowed her to march him back upstairs because he was going to wait for brave Jeremy to force his way into the locked house and disarm Sheila instead.

You’re then suggesting that after Sheila shot Nevill four times having forced him back upstairs, he ran back down again — seriously injured with blood pouring into his mouth, neck, and with a shot shoulder — and it was only then that Nevill decided to put up a huge fight and try to get the gun off her?

You’re suggesting Nevill didn’t take that opportunity when supposedly phoning Jeremy, whilst uninjured to overpower Sheila as she placed her hand on that telephone cradle leaving herself almost disarmed with the gun in just onehand?

You’re suggesting this utterly ludicrous scenario because you want to believe Nevill rang Jeremy, when it’s blindingly obvious he did not.

And that, G-unit, is exactly why the defence didn’t touch on it — because they knew Jeremy’s lie about Nevill phoning him would be shot down in flames.

[Angelo222]

The reason the defence didn’t suggest Nevill rang Jeremy prior to being shot is that they didn’t want to shine a spotlight on Jeremy’s obvious lie.

You’re suggesting Sheila went berserk with the gun upstairs, then Nevill, instead of disarming her — which he easily could have and most certainly would have — decided to leave his wife and grandchildren in immediate grave danger — walked downstairs also leaving himself an easy target for Sheila to shoot him in the back of his head — and rang Jeremy to ask himto disarm Sheila instead. And you expect people to believe that?

You’re then suggesting that Nevill left himself an open target by phoning Jeremy, and that Sheila, instead of storming into the kitchen and shooting Nevill dead as he held the phone, managed to march him back upstairs so she could shoot him up there instead?

You’re also suggesting that Sheila was going berserk yet when she saw Nevill speaking on the phone, she didn’t shout in a crazy fashion; didn’t say a word; Jeremy didn’t hear a whisper coming from his “deranged sister”, she just gently and quietly cut the call off with one hand...

And you’re suggesting she did that while holding that long rifle in just one hand, giving Nevill such easy opportunity to disarm her, but instead of swiftly disarming her he allowed her to march him back upstairs because he was going to wait for brave Jeremy to force his way into the locked house and disarm Sheila instead.

You’re then suggesting that after Sheila shot Nevill four times having forced him back upstairs, he ran back down again — seriously injured with blood pouring into his mouth, neck, and with a shot shoulder — and it was only then that Nevill decided to put up a huge fight and try to get the gun off her?

You’re suggesting Nevill didn’t take that opportunity when supposedly phoning Jeremy, whilst uninjured to overpower Sheila as she placed her hand on that telephone cradle leaving herself almost disarmed with the gun in just onehand?

You’re suggesting this utterly ludicrous scenario because you want to believe Nevill rang Jeremy, when it’s blindingly obvious he did not.

And that, G-unit, is exactly why the defence didn’t touch on it — because they knew Jeremy’s lie about Nevill phoning him would be shot down in flames.

An excellent summation.  Jeremy had has had almost 35 years to dream up these alternative scenarios but the problem for him is that only one works.  The one where HE MURDERED HIS FAMILY BUT WANTS TO PIN THE BLAME ON SHEILA.

[G-Unit]

The reason the defence didn’t suggest Nevill rang Jeremy prior to being shot is that they didn’t want to shine a spotlight on Jeremy’s obvious lie.

You’re suggesting Sheila went berserk with the gun upstairs, then Nevill, instead of disarming her — which he easily could have and most certainly would have — decided to leave his wife and grandchildren in immediate grave danger — walked downstairs also leaving himself an easy target for Sheila to shoot him in the back of his head — and rang Jeremy to ask himto disarm Sheila instead. And you expect people to believe that?

I didn't say Sheila was upstairs and Nevill went down and left her there. I can see a scenario where they were downstairs together having a discussion which became heated. It culminated in Sheila getting the gun and took it into one of the downstairs rooms threatening self-harm.

You’re then suggesting that Nevill left himself an open target by phoning Jeremy, and that Sheila, instead of storming into the kitchen and shooting Nevill dead as he held the phone, managed to march him back upstairs so she could shoot him up there instead?

No. Nevill phoned Jeremy because he couldn't talk Sheila out. She did come out when he was phoning and went upstairs.

You’re also suggesting that Sheila was going berserk yet when she saw Nevill speaking on the phone, she didn’t shout in a crazy fashion; didn’t say a word; Jeremy didn’t hear a whisper coming from his “deranged sister”, she just gently and quietly cut the call off with one hand...

She wasn't in the kitchen. When she ran upstairs Nevill put the phone down and followed her.


And you’re suggesting she did that while holding that long rifle in just one hand, giving Nevill such easy opportunity to disarm her, but instead of swiftly disarming her he allowed her to march him back upstairs because he was going to wait for brave Jeremy to force his way into the locked house and disarm Sheila instead.

You’re then suggesting that after Sheila shot Nevill four times having forced him back upstairs, he ran back down again — seriously injured with blood pouring into his mouth, neck, and with a shot shoulder — and it was only then that Nevill decided to put up a huge fight and try to get the gun off her?

 

You’re suggesting Nevill didn’t take that opportunity when supposedly phoning Jeremy, whilst uninjured to overpower Sheila as she placed her hand on that telephone cradle leaving herself almost disarmed with the gun in just onehand?

You’re suggesting this utterly ludicrous scenario because you want to believe Nevill rang Jeremy, when it’s blindingly obvious he did not.

And that, G-unit, is exactly why the defence didn’t touch on it — because they knew Jeremy’s lie about Nevill phoning him would be shot down in flames.

I have answered your points in bold. Your scenario is indeed ludicrous, but mine isn't imo.

[adam]

'She wasn't in the kitchen. When she ran upstairs Nevill put the phone down and followed her'.

-----

Nevill would not follow Sheila upstairs and let himself get shot twice in the face. From inches away. Then twice in the torso. Then run back downstairs with June still sleeping.

There would have been an upstairs fight.

If Jeremy was the perfect son & brother, there is still no way anyone would ring him at 3am.

[Vertigo Swirl]

The reason the defence didn’t suggest Nevill rang Jeremy prior to being shot is that they didn’t want to shine a spotlight on Jeremy’s obvious lie.

You’re suggesting Sheila went berserk with the gun upstairs, then Nevill, instead of disarming her — which he easily could have and most certainly would have — decided to leave his wife and grandchildren in immediate grave danger — walked downstairs also leaving himself an easy target for Sheila to shoot him in the back of his head — and rang Jeremy to ask himto disarm Sheila instead. And you expect people to believe that?

You’re then suggesting that Nevill left himself an open target by phoning Jeremy, and that Sheila, instead of storming into the kitchen and shooting Nevill dead as he held the phone, managed to march him back upstairs so she could shoot him up there instead?

You’re also suggesting that Sheila was going berserk yet when she saw Nevill speaking on the phone, she didn’t shout in a crazy fashion; didn’t say a word; Jeremy didn’t hear a whisper coming from his “deranged sister”, she just gently and quietly cut the call off with one hand...

And you’re suggesting she did that while holding that long rifle in just one hand, giving Nevill such easy opportunity to disarm her, but instead of swiftly disarming her he allowed her to march him back upstairs because he was going to wait for brave Jeremy to force his way into the locked house and disarm Sheila instead.

You’re then suggesting that after Sheila shot Nevill four times having forced him back upstairs, he ran back down again — seriously injured with blood pouring into his mouth, neck, and with a shot shoulder — and it was only then that Nevill decided to put up a huge fight and try to get the gun off her?

You’re suggesting Nevill didn’t take that opportunity when supposedly phoning Jeremy, whilst uninjured to overpower Sheila as she placed her hand on that telephone cradle leaving herself almost disarmed with the gun in just onehand?

You’re suggesting this utterly ludicrous scenario because you want to believe Nevill rang Jeremy, when it’s blindingly obvious he did not.

And that, G-unit, is exactly why the defence didn’t touch on it — because they knew Jeremy’s lie about Nevill phoning him would be shot down in flames.

[G-Unit]

Given that you're all about evidence - please provide evidence that Sheila was being blackmailed into going the the convalescent home? Because that is what you seem to be implying - "go or we will cut you off"?

I didn't mention blackmail, you did. I don't know what went on between June and her daughter but I do know she made decisions for her. Sheila asked Colin to intervene with her parents to persuade them to change her medication so she was clearly unable to negotiate on her own behalf. I can imagine her fearing that she would end up in Bournemouth if that's what they wanted.

[G-Unit]

'She wasn't in the kitchen. When she ran upstairs Nevill put the phone down and followed her'.

-----

Nevill would not follow Sheila upstairs and let himself get shot twice in the face. From inches away. Then twice in the torso. Then run back downstairs with June still sleeping.

There would have been an upstairs fight.

If Jeremy was the perfect son & brother, there is still no way anyone would ring him at 3am.

If Nevill thought Sheila was intent on harming herself he may well have gone upstairs after her. Whatever occured next and in which order it culminated in him being badly injured and either retreating to the kitchen or being forced down there.