The phone call

[Holly Goodhead]

No it doesn't, no evidence can prove where Nevill got his wounds. We can however take the actual evidence and work out a logical process but I'm afraid your views of Bamber have tainted your reasoning.

What do you think shooting reconstructions involve and aim to demonstrate?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780123822413/shooting-incident-reconstruction

[Holly Goodhead]

No it doesn't, no evidence can prove where Nevill got his wounds. We can however take the actual evidence and work out a logical process but I'm afraid your views of Bamber have tainted your reasoning.

http://www.crimescene-forensics.com/Shooting_Recon.html

"With proper documentation and measurements, it is possible to dermine bullet paths, location of shooters, location of injured parties and muzzle to target distances."

[Holly Goodhead]

A shooting reconstruction at WHF will be made easier by the fact the parameters are limited by room sizes, fixtures and fittings and furniture etc.

[Angelo222]

A shooting reconstruction at WHF will be made easier by the fact the parameters are limited by room sizes, fixtures and fittings and furniture etc.

I don't need a reconstruction to understand what really happened unless you are claiming that all the bullet casings were moved.

Nevill was alerted to movement in the house, Crispy probably heard it first. As Nevill went to investigate the shooter confronted him from the upstairs landing and backed him back into the master bedroom where he was shot in the mouth and shoulder and probably stumbled backwards. June was then shot in bed and shot again as she stumbled to her feet. Jeremy Bamber went downstairs to reload and Nevill staggered down after him leaving blood on the wall beside the stairs.

A fight ensued in which the glass ceiling globe was smashed and the breakfast table disturbed. Nevill slumber exhausted into his armchair and was shot again in the head.  Those are the only conclusions one can come to according to the evidence.

[Vertigo Swirl]

We are told by JB he received a phone call from NB:

"Sheila's gone crazy she's got the gun".

We could all speculate about exactly what was or wasn't going on.  All that can ever be determined is what the physical evidence supports: blood stains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories of shots and wound tracks.  When all these pieces are carefully fitted together they complete a picture or video on par with cctv.

The above clearly shows NB sustained his facial gunshot wounds when he was stood on the landing stairs and the perp was inside the bedroom shooting out onto the landing.  NB then turned to retreat downstairs and when he was on the main staircase he sustained the two gunshot wounds to his rear.

It is not something you can arrive at overnight.  You need to work through the pathology reports, blood stain evidence, casing evidence, ballistics evidence re distance of shots, layout of the farmhouse.

Why would his first instincts on seeing his daughter with a gun be to leave her on her own to kill his wife and grandchildren while he took himself off to phone his son, moreover knowing that he had gone downstairs why did Sheila not pursue him first as he posed the most danger to her?  Furthermore how did Nevill arrive dead downstairs if he was shot dead upstairs?

[Angelo222]

Why would his first instincts on seeing his daughter with a gun be to leave her on her own to kill his wife and grandchildren while he took himself off to phone his son, moreover knowing that he had gone downstairs why did Sheila not pursue him first as he posed the most danger to her?  Furthermore how did Nevill arrive dead downstairs if he was shot dead upstairs?

      by Holy magic

We know what happened, Holly is simply trying to manipulate events to suit her own agenda.  Bamber can have as many tests as he wants until the cows come home but it won't change anything.

[Caroline]

http://www.crimescene-forensics.com/Shooting_Recon.html

"With proper documentation and measurements, it is possible to dermine bullet paths, location of shooters, location of injured parties and muzzle to target distances."

There's your problem.

[Caroline]

We are told by JB he received a phone call from NB:

"Sheila's gone crazy she's got the gun".

We could all speculate about exactly what was or wasn't going on.  All that can ever be determined is what the physical evidence supports: blood stains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories of shots and wound tracks.  When all these pieces are carefully fitted together they complete a picture or video on par with cctv.

The above clearly shows NB sustained his facial gunshot wounds when he was stood on the landing stairs and the perp was inside the bedroom shooting out onto the landing.  NB then turned to retreat downstairs and when he was on the main staircase he sustained the two gunshot wounds to his rear.

It is not something you can arrive at overnight.  You need to work through the pathology reports, blood stain evidence, casing evidence, ballistics evidence re distance of shots, layout of the farmhouse.

Although I think this is just fantasy, how do you imagine anyone would be allowed access to WHF to complete a reconstruction?

[Holly Goodhead]

Why would his first instincts on seeing his daughter with a gun be to leave her on her own to kill his wife and grandchildren while he took himself off to phone his son, moreover knowing that he had gone downstairs why did Sheila not pursue him first as he posed the most danger to her?  Furthermore how did Nevill arrive dead downstairs if he was shot dead upstairs?

Too many preconceived ideas and speculation.  Try looking at the physical evidence.

You are the only one to have ever claimed NB was shot dead upstairs.

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't need a reconstruction to understand what really happened unless you are claiming that all the bullet casings were moved.

Nevill was alerted to movement in the house, Crispy probably heard it first. As Nevill went to investigate the shooter confronted him from the upstairs landing and backed him back into the master bedroom where he was shot in the mouth and shoulder and probably stumbled backwards. June was then shot in bed and shot again as she stumbled to her feet. Jeremy Bamber went downstairs to reload and Nevill staggered down after him leaving blood on the wall beside the stairs.

A fight ensued in which the glass ceiling globe was smashed and the breakfast table disturbed. Nevill slumber exhausted into his armchair and was shot again in the head.  Those are the only conclusions one can come to according to the evidence.

The casings support NB shot on the landing and main stairs.

A shooting reconstruction should have taken place in preparation for trial as it would have done had the case been tried in US where gun crime is a regular occurrence.

[Holly Goodhead]

There's your problem.

Which measurements are required that are unavailable?

[Holly Goodhead]

Although I think this is just fantasy, how do you imagine anyone would be allowed access to WHF to complete a reconstruction?

What is fantasy?

You don't believe NB was shot in the bedroom.

CCRC have the power to enforce.

[Caroline]

What is fantasy?

You don't believe NB was shot in the bedroom.

CCRC have the power to enforce.

I think it's fantasy that a reconstruction prove anything and it's a hell a lot of a work and expense to try and show that a phone call was 'possible'. If it could prove a definite, then that would be different but it can't.

Why would the CCRC enforce a reconstruction? On what basis?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Too many preconceived ideas and speculation.  Try looking at the physical evidence.

You are the only one to have ever claimed NB was shot dead upstairs.

You claimed he was shot twice in the back upstairs.  Presumably you believe be survived long enough to walk down the stairs to die in the kitchen?  And there’s a trail of his blood to support this hypothesis?

[mrswah]

Why would his first instincts on seeing his daughter with a gun be to leave her on her own to kill his wife and grandchildren while he took himself off to phone his son, moreover knowing that he had gone downstairs why did Sheila not pursue him first as he posed the most danger to her?  Furthermore how did Nevill arrive dead downstairs if he was shot dead upstairs?

It is possible that Nevill came downstairs to phone Jeremy and/or the police,  knowing that Sheila had got hold of a gun (maybe she had done this before---who knows?), but never dreaming that she'd actually shoot anyone with it. Perhaps he didn't even think she was capable. Then, he heard shots, ran upstairs, and was shot himself, tried to escape, and was killed downstairs.

Just a scenario---not saying it actually happened, and not dismissing the possibility of Jeremy having done it!