Could Sheila Caffell have defeated Nevill Bamber?

[G-Unit]

Obviously Nevill would have used his massive height and weight advantage to take Sheila to ground. Rather than wrestle for the rifle and let himself get hit multiple times.

He would have negated the situation instantly while fully fit. At the least upstairs when Sheila started shooting.

Nevill had no choice but to fight back in the kitchen after Jeremy opened fire.

Where do you think the perp was standing when opening fire in the main bedroom?

[Caroline]

Where do you think the perp was standing when opening fire in the main bedroom?

Myster posted a diagram which shows where they believed the killer was standing to fire the shots.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11235.msg577767#msg577767

[adam]

Where do you think the perp was standing when opening fire in the main bedroom?

He was standing by the bed. On June's side. The rifle on the end of his arms was long enough to fire close range shots at both people in bed.

[Holly Goodhead]

Where do you think the perp was standing when opening fire in the main bedroom?

Initially at the foot of the bed June's side when, SC imo, opened fire on June whilst she had her head on the pillow evidenced by the blood stains and the fact two bullets were found embedded in the pillow.  NB was in the kitchen on the tel to JB and when he heard the shots he dropped the phone and run upstairs.  When he was stood on the landing stairs which immediately preecede the entrance to the main bedroom I believe SC turned approx 90 degrees facing NB approx diagonally where he sustained the facial shots.  NB then turned to retreat downstairs with SC following where he sustained the two gunshot wounds to his rear: shoulder and elbow/chest graze wound.  All supported by the gunshot wound trajectories and wound tracks.

Others here will disagree but it is one lay person against another as to date a shooting reconstruction has not taken place and therefore expert evidence does not exist in this regard.  All the data for a reconstruction exists so all to play for.

[Holly Goodhead]

He was standing by the bed. On June's side. The rifle on the end of his arms was long enough to fire close range shots at both people in bed.

62. Mr Fletcher also gave evidence of the range at which the shots had been fired. The lower (and not immediately fatal) of the injuries suffered by Sheila Caffell was caused when the muzzle of the gun was within three inches of the throat. The upper injury was a contact shot.

63. Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body. The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely. Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

65. As regards the twins, four of the five injuries suffered by Daniel were caused when the gun was held within one foot of his head, the fifth was from over two feet away. The three wounds to Nicholas were contact or close proximity shots.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

The overall length of the rifle is 48" I think from memory.

It is possible to visualise what took place by the casings, distance of shots, trajectories, wound tracks, length of rifle, room measurements, fixtures, fittings and furniture.

[G-Unit]

I was wondering why Nevill's upstairs shots hit the left side of his body and June's the right side (assuming she was standing and heading for the door in the end). Did she have to pass the perp at the bottom of the bed?

[Vertigo Swirl]

If Sheila is responsible for firing all 25 shots then at what point did she re-load the gun twice, and what was Nevill doing while this was all going on?  In fact, someone who thinks Sheila did it please give us a shot by shot account of events as they unfurled.  How long does it take for a woman like Sheila, not very experienced with guns to fully re-load this gun on each occasion?  Who is alive and who is already dead each time she does this?


“Examination of the rifle 69. The rifle was a German made Anschutz model 525 .22 self-loading rifle in good working order. Cartridges are loaded into a magazine, which has a capacity of 10. It is, as the jury found when they conducted the exercise themselves, progressively harder to load as the number of cartridges increases. Loading the tenth is exceptionally hard. Assuming a full capacity at the commencement of the shooting at the farm, the discharge of the rifle twenty-five times would require it to be re-loaded a minimum of two more times”.

[Vertigo Swirl]

How do Bamber supporters explain the presence of Sheila’s blood on the silencer found hidden in the gun cupboard?

“77. Mr Hayward added in evidence that he would be very surprised to find blood from a person, who had not been shot with a contact or very close contact shot, inside the muzzle of the moderator. He concluded that since (a) the blood inside the moderator belonged to the same group as Sheila Caffell and (b) there was no blood within the barrel of the rifle of the gun, that she had been shot whilst the moderator was fitted to the rifle”.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Given that Sheila, if she was the shooter, must have handled ammunition and gun, how do Bamber supporters account for the lack of grease or lead dust on her hands?

“The condition of Sheila Caffell's body and her clothing 47. The firearms officers who were the first to see her body noted that her feet and hands were "perfectly clean". Her fingernails were well manicured and not broken and there were no marks or indentations on any of her fingers. All her fingertips were clean and free from any blood, dirt or powder and there appeared to be no trace of any lead dust or coating which is usual when handling .22 ammunition.

48. The act of loading the magazine of an automatic weapon (carried out at least twice in this case) would be expected to leave visible traces of the lubricant and the materials from the bullets on the hand”.

[Holly Goodhead]

Given that Sheila, if she was the shooter, must have handled ammunition and gun, how do Bamber supporters account for the lack of grease or lead dust on her hands?

“The condition of Sheila Caffell's body and her clothing 47. The firearms officers who were the first to see her body noted that her feet and hands were "perfectly clean". Her fingernails were well manicured and not broken and there were no marks or indentations on any of her fingers. All her fingertips were clean and free from any blood, dirt or powder and there appeared to be no trace of any lead dust or coating which is usual when handling .22 ammunition.

48. The act of loading the magazine of an automatic weapon (carried out at least twice in this case) would be expected to leave visible traces of the lubricant and the materials from the bullets on the hand”.

Do you always take everything at face value?  If so then of course  you will form the opinion JB is guilty as charged.

I have handled the same cartridges and loaded them into the same magazine and my hands were clean to the naked eye.

Anyone who wishes to check this out can do so by visiting a gun shop.  Unless you have a firearms licence you will be unable to purchase but it shouldn't be a problem to handle them within the shop. 

[Holly Goodhead]

How do Bamber supporters explain the presence of Sheila’s blood on the silencer found hidden in the gun cupboard?

“77. Mr Hayward added in evidence that he would be very surprised to find blood from a person, who had not been shot with a contact or very close contact shot, inside the muzzle of the moderator. He concluded that since (a) the blood inside the moderator belonged to the same group as Sheila Caffell and (b) there was no blood within the barrel of the rifle of the gun, that she had been shot whilst the moderator was fitted to the rifle”.

It has never been proven that SC's blood was inside the silencer only her blood groups which at the time were shared by 8% of the white British population.  If SC's blood was in the silencer then how did it get there?

[adam]

It has never been proven that SC's blood was inside the silencer only her blood groups which at the time were shared by 8% of the white British population.  If SC's blood was in the silencer then how did it get there?

It got there from a contact and close range shot in an area of high blood flow.

[Myster]

Do you always take everything at face value?  If so then of course  you will form the opinion JB is guilty as charged.

I have handled the same cartridges and loaded them into the same magazine and my hands were clean to the naked eye.

Anyone who wishes to check this out can do so by visiting a gun shop.  Unless you have a firearms licence you will be unable to purchase but it shouldn't be a problem to handle them within the shop.

There's over thirty years difference between the bullets manufactured in 1985 and those of today. The amount and consistency of lubricant could be totally different.

[Holly Goodhead]

There's over thirty years difference between the bullets manufactured in 1985 and those of today. The amount and consistency of lubricant could be totally different.

Hopefully you will recall my communication with technical people at the manufacturers confirming no changes.

[Myster]

It has never been proven that SC's blood was inside the silencer only her blood groups which at the time were shared by 8% of the white British population.  If SC's blood was in the silencer then how did it get there?

Let's not restart your silly blood from the buckets theory again!